Oliver Dunn optioned down.... Caleb Durbin gets the call

[RobertCrawley]

On 4/17/2025 at 11:06 AM, sveumrules said:

Kind of interesting looking at the worst teams 3B production to start the year on the FanGraphs positional leaderboards…

30th (PHI | -0.7 WAR)
Alec Bohm hitting 167/178/194 (3 wRC+)

29th (MIL | -0.6 WAR)
hey, look ma, that’s us.

28th (MIN | -0.5 WAR)
Brooks Lee just came off the IL four days ago so should be moving up

27th (NYM | -0.3 WAR)
Vientos (35 wRC+) has crashed early so they’ve started mixing Baty in the last couple days

26th (CHC | -0.3 WAR)
Matt Shaw (47 wRC+) was just optioned himself

25th (CIN | -0.2 WAR)
paying Jeimer Candelario $15M for a 30 wRC+

Even the mighty Dodgers (78 wRC+ | -0.1 WAR) have gotten zilch from the hot corner in the early going.

But according to McCalvy:

The Brewers are above .500 at 10-9 despite getting little from third basemen Dunn and Vinny Capra, who have combined to rank 29th of 30 MLB teams with a .429 OPS at that position, and last with a .188 on-base percentage. 

https://www.mlb.com/news/brewers-call-up-third-base-prospect-caleb-durbin

[tmwiese55]

Old mentioned name McMahon in Den has had a bad start to the year too.  So of course, first gut is good thing they didn't do and it doesn't make you want to get him. OTOH, along with the team being terrible it might incentivize them to eat even more of his salary and present a buy low type situation

[liveforoctober]

6 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

Old mentioned name McMahon in Den has had a bad start to the year too.  So of course, first gut is good thing they didn't do and it doesn't make you want to get him. OTOH, along with the team being terrible it might incentivize them to eat even more of his salary and present a buy low type situation

Of note re: McMahon ... he is 4-59 (.068) in his career hitting at AmFam Field. That isn't a typo.

Ryan McMahon Career Batting Splits | Baseball-Reference.com

[Jopal78]

42 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

Old mentioned name McMahon in Den has had a bad start to the year too.  So of course, first gut is good thing they didn't do and it doesn't make you want to get him. OTOH, along with the team being terrible it might incentivize them to eat even more of his salary and present a buy low type situation

Just to play devil’s advocate with you. McMahon is owed nearly $50 million dollars between now and when his contract is up. How much of that would the Rockies have to eat to get into the Brewers’ price range? 20 million, 25 million. If they’re eating that much cash they would almost certainly expect a blue chip prospect in exchange.  That is reason enough it would never happen. 
 

Plus he has significant home and away splits, where the road stays really aren’t an upgrade. So there’s no real reason for the Brewers to want to acquire McMahon 

[Thurston Fluff]

4 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Just to play devil’s advocate with you. McMahon is owed nearly $50 million dollars between now and when his contract is up. How much of that would the Rockies have to eat to get into the Brewers’ price range? 20 million, 25 million. If they’re eating that much cash they would almost certainly expect a blue chip prospect in exchange.  That is reason enough it would never happen. 
 

Plus he has significant home and away splits, where the road stays really aren’t an upgrade. So there’s no real reason for the Brewers to want to acquire McMahon 

Not to take this too far off topic but I often wondered if the home road splits are less a sign of not being able to hit outside of Denver and more not being able to adjust to the different way the ball moves away from Coors field. If some batters played mostly away from Coors instead of 1/2 their games there maybe their hitting would improve outside of Coors.

[StearnsFTW]

8 hours ago, SF70 said:

Mendez has hit a grand total of 12 HR’s in almost 1,100 minor-league AB’s with an ISO under 1.00, so almost zero impact.  And yes Bob Moore is off to a nice 23 AB start in his repeat AA season, after his below .700 OPS season last year.

 

 nvm

 

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Do we think it's possible that Turang is just more comfortable at 2B, and they're willing to defer to him? I don't doubt that he was having shoulder soreness, but it also seems a little odd that the team went from "we're going to let him play short" to "he's not going to play short at all" based on purely medical assessments. 

I want to be clear that I prefer Turang at 2B. I never liked the SS idea and still don't. But I have to think it's about more than medical caution, and that's probably a good way to operate.

[Thurston Fluff]

If Durbin can hit but can't play a decent third base I wouldn't be surprised or upset if Turang ended up at short later this season.

[markedman5]

https://x.com/todd_rosiak/status/1913344387041599914?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw

[TURBO]

Brewers’ manager Pat Murphy told reporters on Friday that Caleb Durbin will function as the team’s regular third baseman for the foreseeable future.

 

That had been the expectation, but it’s nice to hear Murphy actually spell it out. The 25-year-old infielder had been hitting .278/.316/.482 with a pair of homers and three stolen bases at Triple-A Nashville. 

7m ago

Source: Todd Rosiak

[Playing Catch]

From a front office perspective, I think this move says a lot more about Dunn/Capra than Durbin. I think I would've liked to see the platoon for maybe another week or two before making this move. Not because I feel strongly about giving guys a chance, as much as because I have a hard time believing the platoon could be THAT bad. But this move probably gives them a long look at the internal options before turning to the trade market. Similar to how the Priester move was probably discussed at length throughout the offseason, if Durbin falls on his face, and there is a summer drought on the farm (Boeve, Wilken, Pratt), the Brewers will shore up that position via trade.

From a fan's perspective, I am really excited to see Durbin the Turbine (I also like, "Durbo") play. Last night was so fun to watch, with the fans so involved. It really makes me wonder how cool it would be if all the fans cheered during other at-bats. I like the personalized, "Let's go [Jackson]!" or "Let's go [Hoskins]!" I guess I like to hear it when fans seem to have a personal investment in how the AB goes.

I think all of us had dreams of a lineup with Chipper Jones playing 3rd base for this team, but based on the options available, having another tough, pesky out with enough power to punish mistakes isn't the worst thing.

From a poster's perspective, I've read bits and pieces here about Durbin's 3rd base defense, and I think that I may have even contributed to this idea that he's not good at 3rd. Are there any scouting reports that confirm these suspicions? I think we've read that he's a much better defender at 2nd, but have we read specifically about his defense at 3rd? We know his arm is probably a 40, 45, but does he have quick actions/internal clock that can make up for that? I thought he looked fine there last night, although his arm probably cost them a couple of outs at first. One on the ball he had to charge from deep, and on the effort at a double play that only secured the out at second*.

*edit to correct

[Fear The Chorizo]

I know the batting average and uneven start to his career is a large red flag, but I still have hope that Wilken is going to be the longterm answer at 3rd (or potentially 1st) in the next couple of years.  You've got to give power like that as many chances as possible, and he's sitting in AA with a 0.421 on base percentage despite currently hitting below 0.160.  The Brewers also have a wave of IF prospects in the low minors, where one of them could fill that 3B void.  

Hoping Durbin makes the most of his opportunity at 3B, because he's the type of player that can wreak havoc in a lineup with his speed.  He just doesn't have the frame or arm to play an above average defense at 3B.  I see him as an ideal utility IF, or potentially as a trade chip to bring in a legit 3B from a team looking for an everyday 2B.  If Turang is going to be the Brewers 2B longterm, Durbin is blocked at his best everyday position,

[Playing Catch]

2 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I know the batting average and uneven start to his career is a large red flag, but I still have hope that Wilken is going to be the longterm answer at 3rd (or potentially 1st) in the next couple of years.  You've got to give power like that as many chances as possible, and he's sitting in AA with a 0.421 on base percentage despite currently hitting below 0.160.  The Brewers also have a wave of IF prospects in the low minors, where one of them could fill that 3B void.  

Hoping Durbin makes the most of his opportunity at 3B, because he's the type of player that can wreak havoc in a lineup with his speed.  He just doesn't have the frame or arm to play an above average defense at 3B.  I see him as an ideal utility IF, or potentially as a trade chip to bring in a legit 3B from a team looking for an everyday 2B.  If Turang is going to be the Brewers 2B longterm, Durbin is blocked at his best everyday position,

I think bringing up Durbin immediately puts Ortiz on the hotseat later this season or next season as all the prospects have one more season under their belts and he'll have had plenty of opportunities to prove his MLB worth.

[TURBO]

21 minutes ago, Playing Catch said:

I thought he looked fine there last night, although his arm probably cost them a couple of outs at first. One on the ball he had to charge from deep, and on the effort at a double play that only secured the out at first.

We simply can't afford to give up that many outs per game because of our 3B's arm.

Just not feasible. 

[Playing Catch]

5 minutes ago, TURBO said:

We simply can't afford to give up that many outs per game because of our 3B's arm.

Just not feasible. 

I think it depends on his range, which is a lot harder for me to sense when I watch. Maybe even the great Arenado can't charge that ball as effectively(?)

[Fear The Chorizo]

14 minutes ago, Playing Catch said:

I think bringing up Durbin immediately puts Ortiz on the hotseat later this season or next season as all the prospects have one more season under their belts and he'll have had plenty of opportunities to prove his MLB worth.

Yeah, I can see Ortiz being the odd man out, too - or packaged with some blocked prospects when another SS is ready in the brewers system

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 minute ago, Playing Catch said:

I think it depends on his range, which is a lot harder for me to sense when I watch. Maybe even the great Arenado can't charge that ball as effectively(?)

Range just isn't as important at 3rd - if you have to cover alot of ground to get to a ball at 3rd the SS should probably already have gotten to the ball.  Arm strength/accuracy is probably equal with reaction time/sure handedness to catch shots at you cleanly for 3B defensive ability.

Not having a quality arm over there is forcing a square peg in a round hole for defense, which is something the Brewers shouldn't be doing longterm if they prioritize run prevention to win games

[Playing Catch]

Just now, Fear The Chorizo said:

Range just isn't as important at 3rd

I'm not disagreeing with you, but am curious if you've read/heard anything about this?

[Fear The Chorizo]

6 minutes ago, Playing Catch said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, but am curious if you've read/heard anything about this?

Call it anecdotal I guess - an athletic 3B with a wet noodle arm who could run down more pop fly fouls than a statue with a rocket arm probably doesn't create many more outs in a season since foul territory is so small and since most fair pop flies towards left get run down by SSs.

The range a guy built for middle infield excels when they're playing ~125 feet plus from the plate compared to ~90-100.  There's just not enough time for balls hit towards the gap between third and short for a 3B to move towards the hole to field before it's past them.  That's a dive play, and if it's an athletic but short player at third their dive is a range-limiting factor, too.

There's a reason 3B has seen players with frames like Arenado, Machado, Mike Schmidt, etc playing there over the decades.

[Playing Catch]

28 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

The range a guy built for middle infield excels when they're playing ~125 feet plus from the plate compared to ~90-100.  There's just not enough time for balls hit towards the gap between third and short for a 3B to move towards the hole to field before it's past them.  That's a dive play, and if it's an athletic but short player at third their dive is a range-limiting factor, too.

If a guy's radial range at third is one-step (3 feet?) quicker than other 3rd basemen, and they are keeping more balls in the infield instead of the outfield, they are saving bases. They are probably making bang-bang throws to first. The 3rd baseman with one-step (3 feet?) lesser range may not reach the ball down the line, or the swinging bunt in front of them, to even attempt a throw to 1st. Accuracy of throws also matters. On the prospective 5-4-3 double-play last night, Durbin DID hit Turang perfectly.

I agree with your thought that 3rd base is a reactive position where arm strength benefits the defense, but I'm skeptical that range isn't a significant factor in the quality of the defense. "Range" just means something a little different at 3rd than at short, or 2nd.

[TURBO]

I just think a short 3B with a noodle arm is going to hurt us a lot more than help us in the long run.

Could we get away with playing him at 3B once a week, probably, long term, nope.

[TURBO]

Not to mention, if a guy like Durbin does in fact cut off some balls that a less quick 3B might not, odds of him having to make a strong throw after cutting them off is a must, and I just don't think Durbin has that arm.

If his range gets to a ball, he still has to make a strong throw, and probably even stronger if his range allows him to get to a ball that others can't, if that makes any sense...