When does Arnold start to receive some criticism

[adambr2]

Just now, bigred said:

When it comes to trades, nothing is ever guaranteed. I know that. There's no way to know, though, unless we try. 

There's literally been more than one comment in this fiasco, when people made it clear, in no uncertain terms, that they're happy with just being good in the regular season. If that's how they truly feel, then so be it. But, man, that just seems like a ho-hum attitude to have. 

I don’t recall a single comment in this thread insinuating that being good in the regular season is good enough. I myself said it’s time to raise that bar, to strive for playoff success, we’ve been playing October baseball for long enough now to have expectations.

Just having those expectations with the grounded reality that there isn’t a move that we can make that can guarantee anything.

[TURBO]

2 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

For arguments’ sake, would you guys feel any better or worse about shipping Gasser for Suarez rather than Henderson?

Tough one...

My gut tells me I'd rather keep Henderson.

[bigred]

1 minute ago, adambr2 said:

I don’t recall a single comment in this thread insinuating that being good in the regular season is good enough. I myself said it’s time to raise that bar, to strive for playoff success, we’ve been playing October baseball for long enough now to have expectations.

Just having those expectations with the grounded reality that there isn’t a move that we can make that can guarantee anything.

Then you need to go back and read all of them. Some did say, or at least insinuate that. 

[bigred]

6 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Tough one...

My gut tells me I'd rather keep Henderson.

We all would. I don't think it would even take a prospect of Hendos' caliber, to get him. Just meant even though i wouldn't like it, I'd be ok with it, if I got us a deep run or a Ship. I'd totally be fine with giving up Patrick. Possibly even Wilken. 

[adambr2]

3 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Tough one...

My gut tells me I'd rather keep Henderson.

Assuming you meant Gasser in the context of this reply. 

[Roderick]

19 minutes ago, JCREW said:

So, anyway...

Does he believe enough in Patrick, Myers, and Gasser to part with Henderson?

 

So with the assumption that we trade Peralta this offseason, I want to keep both Patrick and Henderson.  But would trade the AA pitchers.

I don't see how you can assume anything of Gasser until he has done it - same for any injured player.  But, he only had 28 innings under his belt before the injury.  So I don't want to assume he will be one of the starting five at some point for that reason as well.

Miz, Priester, Myers, Patrick, Henderson, then you have Crow, Gasser, Hall, and Ashby as backup for innings, injury, production. 

If you trade one of Henderson/Patrick, I would assume they sign a "Miley/Quintana" type for 2026 - just because.

[TURBO]

15 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Assuming you meant Gasser in the context of this reply. 

Nope, Henderson, like I said...

[BrewerFan]

5 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

I don’t recall a single comment in this thread insinuating that being good in the regular season is good enough. I myself said it’s time to raise that bar, to strive for playoff success, we’ve been playing October baseball for long enough now to have expectations.

Just having those expectations with the grounded reality that there isn’t a move that we can make that can guarantee anything.

No, of course not. We literally ALL want to see the Brewers win a World Series.

We've also all seen enough Baseball to know that it's rare that the best team get there and 7 seasons of Pratt is worth far more than 2 months for our market. It may be worth it for the Cubs or Yankees to trade a guy in that range. They can spend 100-300M more than us. 

I didnt even like the Sabathia trade at the time because Greinke was on the market(reportedly) and I thought it was smarter to try and get him...at least we'd have 3-4 years. 

We made that trade and had a first round exit. So while it was a great season... and we were in a different place. Getting into the playoffs was a bigger deal. But you never have any guarantees. 

The Padres have squandered SO many stars around the league that came from their farm system. If they were just patient and had their money... I really think they'd have won a WS by now. 

[adambr2]

5 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Nope, Henderson, like I said...

Ok, I understand what you were saying now, you’d rather keep Henderson over Gasser. So I guess my question would be, would you part with Gasser to get Suarez, or still keep Gasser.

[BrewerFan]

17 minutes ago, Roderick said:

So with the assumption that we trade Peralta this offseason, I want to keep both Patrick and Henderson.  But would trade the AA pitchers.

I don't see how you can assume anything of Gasser until he has done it - same for any injured player.  But, he only had 28 innings under his belt before the injury.  So I don't want to assume he will be one of the starting five at some point for that reason as well.

Miz, Priester, Myers, Patrick, Henderson, then you have Crow, Gasser, Hall, and Ashby as backup for innings, injury, production. 

If you trade one of Henderson/Patrick, I would assume they sign a "Miley/Quintana" type for 2026 - just because.

I don't think we're going to trade Peralta. That's another benefit of having a deep system. You can just make the QO and take the pick. I assume we'll make one this year to Woody if he stays healthy. 

As for Gasser... I get your point, but recovery from TJ is a really high pct. I'd keep Henderson over Gasser only because Gasser's clock is running and Henderson's isn't(though having a lefty coming off TJ...where pitchers on average pick up a MPH or 2 on their FB isn't the worst thing either). 

 

4 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Nope, Henderson, like I said...

Yeah, I think the context was who would you rather give up in a trade. 

So Gasser. You'd keep Henderson, trade Gasser. 

[TURBO]

3 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Yeah, I think the context was who would you rather give up in a trade. 

So Gasser. You'd keep Henderson, trade Gasser. 

Yes, but I didn't think I'd need to clarify.

I said I'd rather keep Henderson, which means I'd rather trade Gasser.

 

[yfinn6]

I would trade Henderson for Suarez because it would mean the Cubs didn't get Suarez and they might overpay for a lessor bat. I like Henderson and it would sting but I think the Brewers can afford him for the rental. 

[adambr2]

4 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Yes, but I didn't think I'd need to clarify.

I said I'd rather keep Henderson, which means I'd rather trade Gasser.

 

Well, I hope it’s not a big deal to you that you did. 

In my original post I asked if people would feel better or worse about trading Gasser for Suarez, so the misunderstanding was that I thought you intended to say you’d keep Gasser (thus saying no I wouldn’t trade Gasser for Suarez)

[adambr2]

5 minutes ago, yfinn6 said:

I would trade Henderson for Suarez because it would mean the Cubs didn't get Suarez and they might overpay for a lessor bat. I like Henderson and it would sting but I think the Brewers can afford him for the rental. 

The Cubs will definitely do something. I think a rotation upgrade for them is almost a certainty.

[Thurston Fluff]

14 hours ago, bigred said:

I'm not the only one. If you went back and looked, a few others have said that now, since it's not 2008 anymore, and after several early exits from the playoffs, it's definitely ok for our fanbase to expect more from our front office and GM. To actually go for it. 

I've noticed that not 1 person will answer my question. If having 1 of the best records in MLB, and sweeping the Dodgers season series isn't enough motivation to make a couple trades to actually go for a deep playoff run/WS title, then what will be enough? The only true answer, is nothing will ever be enough, then. 

I'll answer that. Never. It is never wise to go all in on a crap shoot. Trading to get Ohtani woud only marginally boost our odds to win the World Series. It would also cost so much that it would reduce our odds of fielding a playoff caliber team for the next few years. It is a fools errand. 

That isn't to say all trades are bad. Nor is trading for a "needle mover" by definition always wrong. What is always wrong is doing so because of the "this is our year" mentality. Nobody knows which year is "the" year until its over. Believing one year is the year is magical thinking. You don't change the organizational philosophy that is considered one of, it not the, best, most competently run organizations in the the league based on a belief in fairy dust and unicorns.

[adambr2]

1 hour ago, Thurston Fluff said:

I'll answer that. Never. It is never wise to go all in on a crap shoot. Trading to get Ohtani woud only marginally boost our odds to win the World Series. It would also cost so much that it would reduce our odds of fielding a playoff caliber team for the next few years. It is a fools errand. 

That isn't to say all trades are bad. Nor is trading for a "needle mover" by definition always wrong. What is always wrong is doing so because of the "this is our year" mentality. Nobody knows which year is "the" year until its over. Believing one year is the year is magical thinking. You don't change the organizational philosophy that is considered one of, it not the, best, most competently run organizations in the the league based on a belief in fairy dust and unicorns.

Lot of truth in this post. 

I think a healthy way to look at it that can ease some frustration when it gets to be irritating that the Brewers aren’t more aggressive is to ask yourself, “why are the Brewers where they are now?” They’re 61-43, tied for the best record in the National League, and have a loaded farm. All this in spite of their financial limitations. Why, and how?

Well, coaching and scouting and development and all that, of course. But the Brewers are also where they are because they didn’t go all-in in 2021. They didn’t go all-in in 2023.

The Brewers are as good as they are not just from the moves they’ve made, but the moves they haven’t made. Patience is so crucial when you are a small market. 

And yes, none of that is to say you shouldn’t make moves, when they are smart and cost-effective, especially when dealing from an area of organizational surplus. 

But just know no matter what these moves are, the increase to your overall chances is marginal. So the healthiest thing you can do, is try to ensure that year after year, you’re one of the last 12 teams with a chance. 

They’ve done that. Now they have to be the team that gets the breaks, gets healthy at the right time, gets hot at the right time. I’m as frustrated as anybody that that hasn’t happened yet. But it isn’t a result of bad process. I hope they do make a move or two, by the way. I think it’s part of the excitement of this time of year. But the fact that they’re always keeping the big picture in mind is a good thing, not a bad thing.

[TURBO]

34 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

But the Brewers are also where they are because they didn’t go all-in in 2021. They didn’t go all-in in 2023.

The Brewers are as good as they are not just from the moves they’ve made, but the moves they haven’t made.

truth.

[MVP2110]

4 hours ago, bigred said:

We all would. I don't think it would even take a prospect of Hendos' caliber, to get him. Just meant even though i wouldn't like it, I'd be ok with it, if I got us a deep run or a Ship. I'd totally be fine with giving up Patrick. Possibly even Wilken. 

Wait do you think Henderson is a more valuable prospect then Pratt?

[bigred]

5 hours ago, adambr2 said:

Lot of truth in this post. 

I think a healthy way to look at it that can ease some frustration when it gets to be irritating that the Brewers aren’t more aggressive is to ask yourself, “why are the Brewers where they are now?” They’re 61-43, tied for the best record in the National League, and have a loaded farm. All this in spite of their financial limitations. Why, and how?

Well, coaching and scouting and development and all that, of course. But the Brewers are also where they are because they didn’t go all-in in 2021. They didn’t go all-in in 2023.

The Brewers are as good as they are not just from the moves they’ve made, but the moves they haven’t made. Patience is so crucial when you are a small market. 

And yes, none of that is to say you shouldn’t make moves, when they are smart and cost-effective, especially when dealing from an area of organizational surplus. 

But just know no matter what these moves are, the increase to your overall chances is marginal. So the healthiest thing you can do, is try to ensure that year after year, you’re one of the last 12 teams with a chance. 

They’ve done that. Now they have to be the team that gets the breaks, gets healthy at the right time, gets hot at the right time. I’m as frustrated as anybody that that hasn’t happened yet. But it isn’t a result of bad process. I hope they do make a move or two, by the way. I think it’s part of the excitement of this time of year. But the fact that they’re always keeping the big picture in mind is a good thing, not a bad thing.

And they were also promptly bounced from the playoffs those years. Lol

 Keep telling yourselves that we can win a title by continuing to do what we do, while waiting for the planets to align JUST so. Lol. Sorry, but you're setting yourselves up for a yearly disappointment, come October. 

[bigred]

4 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

Wait do you think Henderson is a more valuable prospect then Pratt?

No, but that also depends on what the other team would be looking for in return. If the team is looking fir pitchers in returns, then yes, he would be more valuable to that team. 

[adambr2]

5 minutes ago, bigred said:

And they were also promptly bounced from the playoffs those years. Lol

 Keep telling yourselves that we can win a title by continuing to do what we do, while waiting for the planets to align JUST so. Lol. Sorry, but you're setting yourselves up for a yearly disappointment, come October. 

You really didn’t get the point of anything I said, did you l?

There’s nothing they could have to guarantee better results in 2021. There’s nothing they could have done to guarantee better results in 2023. They could have sacrificed the 2025 team for a better shot in those years, if that’s what you’re advocating.

What are the massive trades that small market clubs made at the deadline in previous years that was the needle mover in them winning it all?

[bigred]

14 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

You really didn’t get the point of anything I said, did you l?

There’s nothing they could have to guarantee better results in 2021. There’s nothing they could have done to guarantee better results in 2023. They could have sacrificed the 2025 team for a better shot in those years, if that’s what you’re advocating.

What are the massive trades that small market clubs made at the deadline in previous years that was the needle mover in them winning it all?

Nothing? Trading for better players than they did trade for, couldn't have made them better? How do you know? Lol Just stop. You have your opinions, as do I. 

[bigred]

AHEM! Like I've been saying! Lol

https://reviewingthebrew.com/what-the-josh-naylor-trade-reveals-about-the-brewers-deadline-plans-01k14fsz11pc

[BrewerFan]

20 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

You really didn’t get the point of anything I said, did you l?

There’s nothing they could have to guarantee better results in 2021. There’s nothing they could have done to guarantee better results in 2023. They could have sacrificed the 2025 team for a better shot in those years, if that’s what you’re advocating.

What are the massive trades that small market clubs made at the deadline in previous years that was the needle mover in them winning it all?

Nope. Not a bit of it. 

I pointed out a few people wanted to trade Chourio a couple years ago and he said Choiuro hasn't "progressed." 

 

[BrewerFan]

2 minutes ago, bigred said:

AHEM! Like I've been saying! Lol

https://reviewingthebrew.com/what-the-josh-naylor-trade-reveals-about-the-brewers-deadline-plans-01k14fsz11pc

Well... if Tremayne Person says so...

So Naylor would have been the big power bat you wanted? You were asked no less than a dozen times who you wanted and silence.