When does Arnold start to receive some criticism

[brewers888]

This is not a thread looking to replace the GM but its fair to ask when does Matt Arnold start to receive criticism for the job he has done the last year or so particularly with his trades and his complete whiff on third base.

Devin was traded a year late and taking back damaged goods in Cortes and a utility infielder in Durbin was an awful return regardless of how awful Williams has pitched for the yankees.

Now trading multiple prospects and a valuable draft pick for Priester who is completely unimpressive was another misstep at least as of now though he still has time to show something.

How is it that every fan knew third base was a black hole yet Arnold did nothing to address it and no Durbin is not a suitable third baseman. This lineup totally lacks any pop and this was obvious coming into the season.

The front office has done an admirable job with the draft and especially with their international signings and Arnold did start off hot with the Contreras trade but his last few deals have been questionable at best. This looks like a lost season which can certainly happen with our limited payroll and Arnold is going to have big decisions to make at the deadline lets just hope it turns out better than his last few big deals.    

[brewers888]

I didn't even mention the Shane Smith debacle which was a complete unforced error.

[Jopal78]

40 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

This is not a thread looking to replace the GM but its fair to ask when does Matt Arnold start to receive criticism for the job he has done the last year or so particularly with his trades and his complete whiff on third base.

Devin was traded a year late and taking back damaged goods in Cortes and a utility infielder in Durbin was an awful return regardless of how awful Williams has pitched for the yankees.

Now trading multiple prospects and a valuable draft pick for Priester who is completely unimpressive was another misstep at least as of now though he still has time to show something.

How is it that every fan knew third base was a black hole yet Arnold did nothing to address it and no Durbin is not a suitable third baseman. This lineup totally lacks any pop and this was obvious coming into the season.

The front office has done an admirable job with the draft and especially with their international signings and Arnold did start off hot with the Contreras trade but his last few deals have been questionable at best. This looks like a lost season which can certainly happen with our limited payroll and Arnold is going to have big decisions to make at the deadline lets just hope it turns out better than his last few big deals.    

He’s the reigning GM of the year,  it’s May 11th, and their starting catcher, center fielder, four starting pitchers have been hurt.  His 21 year old phenom hasn’t played well, and his highly paid former MVP has been atrocious. Given those truths, maybe Arnold catches some criticism in 2026 but probably 2027 before he feels any real heat. 

[Frisbee Slider]

We have multiple promising third baseman in the minors. In one sense, we shouldn’t want more than a stop gap at 3B to not block Boeve or Wilken, right?

[brewers888]

7 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

He’s the reigning GM of the year,  it’s May 10th, and their starting catcher, center fielder, four starting pitchers have been hurt.  His 21 year old phenom hasn’t played well, and his highly paid former MVP has been atrocious. Given those truths, maybe Arnold catches some criticism in 2026 but probably 2027 before he feels any real heat. 

I am not calling for Arnold to be on the hot seat yet just looking for a discussion on his last few moves which have not been good at all. 

[brewers888]

3 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

We have multiple promising third baseman in the minors. In one sense, we shouldn’t want more than a stop gap at 3B to not block Boeve or Wilken, right?

I feel that way about Pratt at shortstop but Boeve and Wilken are not elite prospects worth "saving" the position for. 

[Jopal78]

14 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

I am not calling for Arnold to be on the hot seat yet just looking for a discussion on his last few moves which have not been good at all. 

It’s May 11th. They are 2 games under .500 and have yet to play one game with their preferred 26 man roster. Why would there be a discussion of his last few moves? 
 

They’re Brewers have started the season with 5  players hitting under .240, the Cubs have started the season with 6 players on pace for 30+ homeruns. 
 

That is the difference in the NL Central

[Brian]

Seems to me the budget of Mark Attanasio may be handcuffing him. 

[JohnBriggs12]

When Wilken was drafted, my guess is they were targeting 2025 as his debut season.  He was obviously set back with injury, and until showing very positive signs the last month, hasn't performed all that well.  But he has an elite power/patience tool that makes him in my mind every bit as intriguing as Pratt especially for an organization so lacking in power bats.  They have pitching nearing or at major league ready that's as strong as it's ever been in recent memory and Arnold deserves credit for that.  How he manages to incorporate it into the major league roster will determine the short term success of the major league club, but I think Wilken is starting to show why he was taken 18th overall and a year from now, he might be that missing power they so desperately need.

[homer]

Contreras 237/353/321/673

Chourio 266/282/479/761

Yelich 200/298/350/648

 

Those three need to start hitting. If they don't, it won't matter what the GM does.

[wibadgers23]

He had a bad offseason and I hated the Priester trade but I'm not going to criticize him too much...yet.

[Thurston Fluff]

2 hours ago, brewers888 said:

I am not calling for Arnold to be on the hot seat yet just looking for a discussion on his last few moves which have not been good at all. 

I think he's been criticized for not protecting Smith quite a bit. I don't think the return on Williams was all that light given he was a rental. The only light thing about it was they only got one young player but getting a major league ready player at a position of need is not exactly light. Usually the players coming back are a year or more away. One could argue he should have been traded a year earlier but there wasn't a known replacement for him at that point. It wasn't like we all knew Megill was going to be as good as he is. He wasn't even the first in line to replace Williams when he was hurt. Arnold was also trying to win last season so trading an ace starter and reliever would have made that harder to do.

As far as assembling a competitive team this season goes it hasn't worked out so far. I think most of us realize the injuries have player a major role in that. It's hard to put together enough depth to overcome the number of injuries we've had on a shoestring budget.  If we miss the playoffs this year it will be disappointing but it won't be a sign that we're doomed to a long rebuild. The next generation is close. In other words, he's still on pace to field playoff caliber teams on a regular basis. When he no longer does that, it will be time to start the criticism.

[Brian]

1 hour ago, homer said:

Contreras 237/353/321/673

Chourio 266/282/479/761

Yelich 200/298/350/648

 

Those three need to start hitting. If they don't, it won't matter what the GM does.

Then were back to maybe the cause of some is Al LeBoeuf new hitting coach.  Even though Contreras has the fracture in his left middle finger but Chourio - Swings early and often at balls.  Yelich - Who knows besides his back surgery last season struggling batting .200. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, brewers888 said:

I feel that way about Pratt at shortstop but Boeve and Wilken are not elite prospects worth "saving" the position for. 

At this point they're worth NOT paying through the nose for a 3B though, at least during the past off-season when the decision was made.

I'm with you on the Priester trade. And I hated dealing Reese Olson for Daniel Norris the moment that was done.

[Jim French Stepstool]

24 minutes ago, Brian said:

Then were back to maybe the cause of some is Al LeBoeuf new hitting coach.  Even though Contreras has the fracture in his left middle finger but Chourio - Swings early and often at balls.  Yelich - Who knows besides his back surgery last season struggling batting .200. 

They're not at their level but you can add Ortiz & Mitchell to that list. OTOH does he deserve credit for Turang & Frelick upping their games (until the last week or two, again health is a factor there)? I want to see where the main actors are after the next 6-8 weeks, see guys get healthy (as if the baseball gods allow that for this organization), then point the light more directly at LeBoeuf if things don't improve.

[Underachiever]

You're not calling for his job but asking when he starts receiving criticism. I think he gets a lot here. The Shane Smith thing has been commented on at great length. So from whom are you hoping he gets criticism? And to what end?

[brewers888]

55 minutes ago, Thurston Fluff said:

I think he's been criticized for not protecting Smith quite a bit. I don't think the return on Williams was all that light given he was a rental. The only light thing about it was they only got one young player but getting a major league ready player at a position of need is not exactly light. Usually the players coming back are a year or more away. One could argue he should have been traded a year earlier but there wasn't a known replacement for him at that point. It wasn't like we all knew Megill was going to be as good as he is. He wasn't even the first in line to replace Williams when he was hurt. Arnold was also trying to win last season so trading an ace starter and reliever would have made that harder to do.

As far as assembling a competitive team this season goes it hasn't worked out so far. I think most of us realize the injuries have player a major role in that. It's hard to put together enough depth to overcome the number of injuries we've had on a shoestring budget.  If we miss the playoffs this year it will be disappointing but it won't be a sign that we're doomed to a long rebuild. The next generation is close. In other words, he's still on pace to field playoff caliber teams on a regular basis. When he no longer does that, it will be time to start the criticism.

Cortes was damaged goods with only one year of control and Durbin is essentially a throw in so I think the return was extremely light but the bigger mistake was not moving Devin a year earlier. We have a similar decision to make with Freddy who they hopefully can extend but if not he should be moved at this deadline for a maximum return.

[brewers888]

3 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

You're not calling for his job but asking when he starts receiving criticism. I think he gets a lot here. The Shane Smith thing has been commented on at great length. So from whom are you hoping he gets criticism? And to what end?

The last few moves have been terrible and I am just pointing that out. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

4 hours ago, brewers888 said:

This is not a thread looking to replace the GM but its fair to ask when does Matt Arnold start to receive criticism for the job he has done the last year or so particularly with his trades and his complete whiff on third base.

Devin was traded a year late and taking back damaged goods in Cortes and a utility infielder in Durbin was an awful return regardless of how awful Williams has pitched for the yankees.

Now trading multiple prospects and a valuable draft pick for Priester who is completely unimpressive was another misstep at least as of now though he still has time to show something.

How is it that every fan knew third base was a black hole yet Arnold did nothing to address it and no Durbin is not a suitable third baseman. This lineup totally lacks any pop and this was obvious coming into the season.

The front office has done an admirable job with the draft and especially with their international signings and Arnold did start off hot with the Contreras trade but his last few deals have been questionable at best. This looks like a lost season which can certainly happen with our limited payroll and Arnold is going to have big decisions to make at the deadline lets just hope it turns out better than his last few big deals.    

I'm not above criticising Arnold but right now feels WAYYYYYY too early.

I don't think he traded Williams too late, I think he traded him at *exactly* the right time. He received a good return after using Williams to help the Brewers make the postseason in 2024.

And he's doing all of this amidst a forced drop in payroll. I'm sure he would have LOVED the idea of spending $10m to go find a real third baseman. That wasn't an option for him this offseason.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, JohnBriggs12 said:

When Wilken was drafted, my guess is they were targeting 2025 as his debut season.  He was obviously set back with injury, and until showing very positive signs the last month, hasn't performed all that well.  But he has an elite power/patience tool that makes him in my mind every bit as intriguing as Pratt especially for an organization so lacking in power bats.  

He's been out of sight, out of mind a little bit but Boeve was absolutely laying waste to high-A pitching last year, more than held his own in AA, then couldn't stay healthy. Had that not happened there might be yet another option.

 

[brewers888]

3 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I'm not above criticising Arnold but right now feels WAYYYYYY too early.

I don't think he traded Williams too late, I think he traded him at *exactly* the right time. He received a good return after using Williams to help the Brewers make the postseason in 2024.

And he's doing all of this amidst a forced drop in payroll. I'm sure he would have LOVED the idea of spending $10m to go find a real third baseman. That wasn't an option for him this offseason.

Cortes was damaged goods who was injured most of last season so I completely disagree that it was a good return.

[shanedog19]

3 hours ago, JohnBriggs12 said:

When Wilken was drafted, my guess is they were targeting 2025 as his debut season.  He was obviously set back with injury, and until showing very positive signs the last month, hasn't performed all that well.  But he has an elite power/patience tool that makes him in my mind every bit as intriguing as Pratt especially for an organization so lacking in power bats.  They have pitching nearing or at major league ready that's as strong as it's ever been in recent memory and Arnold deserves credit for that.  How he manages to incorporate it into the major league roster will determine the short term success of the major league club, but I think Wilken is starting to show why he was taken 18th overall and a year from now, he might be that missing power they so desperately need.

I would be totally fine if we brought up Wilken to be our everyday 3B and live with all of his mistakes. I don't think he'd be much worse than Durbin, and would also bring a power component and likely better defense. I just don't see this roster as a contender, and would prefer us to move towards a youth movement and be sellers at the deadline.

[Brian]

11 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

Cortes was damaged goods who was injured most of last season so I completely disagree that it was a good return.

Maybe its a wash then because the only headlines Devin Williams has gotten are bad. 

[Thurston Fluff]

15 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

Cortes was damaged goods with only one year of control and Durbin is essentially a throw in so I think the return was extremely light but the bigger mistake was not moving Devin a year earlier. We have a similar decision to make with Freddy who they hopefully can extend but if not he should be moved at this deadline for a maximum return.

I have no idea how you can say a major league ready player with six years of control is the throw in when only other player coming to us had a year of control and a balky elbow. Trading a guy because he was down to his last year of control for mainly another guy down to his last year of control makes no sense. If you thought Cortez was the main piece coming back it explains why you thought it was such a bad deal.

[brewfanmn]

14 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

Cortes was damaged goods who was injured most of last season so I completely disagree that it was a good return.

Nestor Cortes made 30 starts and threw 174 innings last year. The guy who was injured most of last season was the one they traded away.