Orioles at Brewers; Wednesday, May 21 @ 12:10 p.m.: Chad Patrick (3.35 ERA, 3.66 FIP) vs. Tomoyuki Sugano (3.08 ERA, 4.85 FIP)

[JohnBriggs12]

19 minutes ago, Brewer77 said:

Murphy has his share of the blame, but there’s only so much a manager can do when your starters give you 5 innings and your offense is incapable of blowing a game open

The starters are only giving them 5 innings or less because Murphy takes them at the first sign of trouble starting in the 4th inning.  Today Patrick got the first two outs in the 5th, then gave up a double which brought up Henderson.  Let the kid earn it.  It was the 5th inning with a 1-0 score and you have a tired bullpen.  Patrick was at 89 pitches.  If he gives up a hit to Henderson, it's still only 2-0 and your offense still has 15 outs left.  If he gets Henderson, he should be able to start the 6th.  His next two relievers only added 4 outs.

By the way, why the reluctance to release Payamps?

[Yaz19]

Ah just like the good old days when Brewerfan threads were a smorgasbord of vents.   Tough loss for sure today.   

[Brian]

40 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Murphy's horrific in game management and bullpen management has been so exposed this year with a worse team.

Also, Tyler Alexander has pitched 7 of the past 10 games. not only is that stupid it also could ruin Alexander's career.  Murphy is by far the worst active game manager in baseball today. 

[LouisEly]

52 minutes ago, yfinn6 said:

Is there a reason Alexander stays on this roster? Dude stinks. 

Because half of their staff is on the IL.

[Fear The Chorizo]

13 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

 A big part of the reason why we give up three runs or less might just be that we create favorable matchups by using multiple pitchers. Don't get me wrong; It frustrates me too when we constantly seem to be in 'overworked' mode in the BP. Somehow, someway we need to get beyond starters being pulled in the 5th & 6th innings. It would help if they had a margin for error (3-4 run lead) but that seldom happens, and if someone is available out of the pen then we're in "win today" mode.

The other thing that can be exasperating is constantly using someone for only one inning. But today we saw why. Mears throws six pitches to get out of the 7th. I'd have run him back out there too. But being trained to warm up quickly, pitch, and sit doesn't seem to jibe with getting back up again. Some guys can do it but it looks like most of our 'winning BP' guys aren't in that mold. Or we don't want them to be because then you lose someone for 2-3 games.

But IMO it all comes back to getting 6 or more out of your starter, a lot more often than what's happening now.

And, of course, a big reason the Brewers put so much pressure on pitching/run prevention is because they don't have a lineup capable of consistently scoring more runs...they get any sort of a lead by the 5th inning and Murphy goes into Tony LaRussa mode with the bullpen assuming the last 4 innings of offense will be nada.

 

When their pen is lights out, it is a recipe to grind out more wins than losses when there are enough replacement relievers on the AAAA bullpen shuttle - but when that starts leaking or it isn't as deep as it needs to be things get ugly really fast.

[Jopal78]

15 minutes ago, edfunderburk said:

He’s been well compensated for his contributions of yesteryear. He’s hurting the team in his present inability to perform at even an average level. 
 

I’m grateful for how awesome he was in his prime, but he is so far below average right now that he needs to sit or go on the IL & mentally rehab. 
 

The last three years of his contract are going to be brutal unless MA & Arnold agree to cut their losses & eat that abysmal contract. 

Ha! The day they eat 84 million dollars is the day pigs fly. Seriously the owner of the Brewers can’t win. If they would’ve traded Yelich after winning an MVP and almost winning a second one, Attanasio would’ve been burned in effigy. Instead he gives Yelcih an extension which any reasonable person should have seen would end poorly (almost 90% of them do) and now Attanasio a chump for not just simply cutting Yelich and eating almost $100 million

[Jopal78]

18 minutes ago, edfunderburk said:

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

36 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I get that today's game has made pitching more of a specialty and emphasized quick hooks on starters...but at some point the Brewers have to get more innings out of their rotation and stop the nightly use of almost the entire bullpen.  It's not even Memorial Day and key relievers are borderline torched right now.

 

Also, there's alot of garbage sitting on the 40 man roster that needs to be exchanged for guys sitting in AAA and AA right now - starting service time clocks be damned.

If I could give you half a thumbs up, I would. 1st paragraph is golden. As for the second, LA, NY, CHI, PHA-----there are a lot of organizations that can afford to damn the service clock. We can't. A couple of the pitchers at N'Ville, I'll give you that. But pitching isn't the main problem. If there were people at AAA that could make a difference we wouldn't have signed Dalbeck & Rosario.

[wiguy94]

7 minutes ago, JohnBriggs12 said:

The starters are only giving them 5 innings or less because Murphy takes them at the first sign of trouble starting in the 4th inning.  Today Patrick got the first two outs in the 5th, then gave up a double which brought up Henderson.  Let the kid earn it.  It was the 5th inning with a 1-0 score and you have a tired bullpen.  Patrick was at 89 pitches.  If he gives up a hit to Henderson, it's still only 2-0 and your offense still has 15 outs left.  If he gets Henderson, he should be able to start the 6th.  His next two relievers only added 4 outs.

By the way, why the reluctance to release Payamps?

Also the double that Patrick gave up wasn't even a roped double. It was an 88 EV soft double down the line that frankly Isaac Collins would have caught if he was in LF not Bauers. Don't even need to have him start the 6th but saving Zastryzny from the up down maybe lets him get the whole 6th.

[Brian]

59 minutes ago, yfinn6 said:

Is there a reason Alexander stays on this roster? Dude stinks. 

Tyler Alexander has pitched 7 of the past 10 games. Not only is that stupid by Murphy it also could ruin Alexander's career.  I repete, Murphy is by far the worst active game manager in baseball today. 

[Jopal78]

8 minutes ago, Brian said:

Tyler Alexander has pitched 7 of the past 10 games. Not only is that stupid by Murphy it also could ruin Alexander's career.  I repete, Murphy is by far the worst active game manager in baseball today. 

He is not. Who really cares if he ruins Alexander’s career; the guy is a stiff. 

If he was riding young starters like Henderson and Patrick hard that would be one thing. A journeyman swing man… psssh. It’s the major leagues not little league.

As for the hitters, Murphy has a load of crap to work with including 3 regulars hitting under .200 after 50+ games. He’s a manager not a magician

[Jim French Stepstool]

25 minutes ago, JohnBriggs12 said:

The starters are only giving them 5 innings or less because Murphy takes them at the first sign of trouble starting in the 4th inning.  Today Patrick got the first two outs in the 5th, then gave up a double which brought up Henderson.  Let the kid earn it.  It was the 5th inning with a 1-0 score and you have a tired bullpen.  Patrick was at 89 pitches.  If he gives up a hit to Henderson, it's still only 2-0 and your offense still has 15 outs left.  If he gets Henderson, he should be able to start the 6th.  His next two relievers only added 4 outs.

By the way, why the reluctance to release Payamps?

As for your first point, yeah. That needs to start happening. The trust has pretty much emerged with Peralta & it needs to expand to others. If Miz makes it up here this summer, whoo boy will there be complaining on BF when HE gets lifted because he'll probably be protected.

Payamps was lousy his first 2-3 weeks, people clamored for the DFA, and he turned in 8 or 9 great outings. Now it seems to be going south again. When he's right he's a valuable asset. They really can't afford to jettison guys like that w/o giving them a chance to regain effectiveness and, therefore, value. If this is the start of another stretch like he had earlier, he'll probably go.

[karl]

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

Serious question, is Murphy scared of having the necessary conversation with Yelich of dropping him in the order? I get that it’s hard and there’s a lot of past and pride here, but my God, it is way overdue. He is completely toast.

Cubs demoted Swanson to 8th in the order, lots of pride there as well, yet CC did what a manager is supposed to do, and Swanson has been raking ever since

 

[Austin Tatious]

We are wasting time with Alexander and Payamps.  With some of the pitchers coming back soon, they both G2G.  

[Jim French Stepstool]

Just my 2 cents re Levering-------of all the TV PBP guys we've had he's probably in the middle somewhere. What I'm finding entertaining about him these days is listening to his full-blown crusade to defend Yelichs' ABs. It's sometimes subtle, sometimes more blatant, but it's becoming a pretty consistent monologue. He's the Brewers' announcer, yeah, but there's such a thing as overdoing it.

And Jeff, if you're out there..........no, the pitches that he's missing aren't THAT nasty.

[Brewer77]

33 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

I mean Murphy is pulling starters earlier than they have to be pulled because of his "win today" motto. Patrick did not need to be pulled after 89 pitches today.

 

18 minutes ago, JohnBriggs12 said:

The starters are only giving them 5 innings or less because Murphy takes them at the first sign of trouble starting in the 4th inning.  Today Patrick got the first two outs in the 5th, then gave up a double which brought up Henderson.  Let the kid earn it.  It was the 5th inning with a 1-0 score and you have a tired bullpen.  Patrick was at 89 pitches.  If he gives up a hit to Henderson, it's still only 2-0 and your offense still has 15 outs left.  If he gets Henderson, he should be able to start the 6th.  His next two relievers only added 4 outs.

By the way, why the reluctance to release Payamps?

Sure he could have kept him in there, but I don’t think it would’ve been the right decision even with the heavy usage to some of their relievers. Henderson had reached both times against Patrick, has a 167 wRC+ vs. RHP and 18 wRC+ vs. LHP, and Patrick has surrendered a .901 OPS the third time through the order 

The problem is not getting enough use out of his middle relievers. If you want to make the argument that there was plenty of time to tack on runs, then put Payamps and McGee out there to try and get them to the 8th rather than Anderson and Mears

But the biggest problem of all is still the offense. Every game they’re walking a tightrope through the middle innings because they aren’t scoring any runs

[Brian]

17 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

He is not. Who really cares if he ruins Alexander’s career; the guy is a stiff. 

If he was riding young starters like Henderson and Patrick hard that would be one thing. A journeyman swing man… psssh. It’s the major leagues not little league.

As for the hitters, Murphy has a load of crap to work with including 3 regulars hitting under .200 after 50+ games. He’s a manager not a magician

My point is... If Alexander is a stiff why does he pitch him 7 of the past 10 games. Murphy is just a plain old block head. 

[wiguy94]

43 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

He is not. Who really cares if he ruins Alexander’s career; the guy is a stiff. 

If he was riding young starters like Henderson and Patrick hard that would be one thing. A journeyman swing man… psssh. It’s the major leagues not little league.

As for the hitters, Murphy has a load of crap to work with including 3 regulars hitting under .200 after 50+ games. He’s a manager not a magician

So what about him riding Abner Uribe like he's rubber armed Hoby Milner? Since Uribe was activated from his suspension he's 1st in G and 13th in IP among relievers. Yesterday he had Uribe throw for the 3rd day in a row despite throwing 35 pitches the previous two days.

[wiguy94]

39 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

As for your first point, yeah. That needs to start happening. The trust has pretty much emerged with Peralta & it needs to expand to others. If Miz makes it up here this summer, whoo boy will there be complaining on BF when HE gets lifted because he'll probably be protected.

Payamps was lousy his first 2-3 weeks, people clamored for the DFA, and he turned in 8 or 9 great outings. Now it seems to be going south again. When he's right he's a valuable asset. They really can't afford to jettison guys like that w/o giving them a chance to regain effectiveness and, therefore, value. If this is the start of another stretch like he had earlier, he'll probably go.

I think it's super easy to jettison a guy like Payamps. Even if he turns it around he's a sure thing non-tender candidate in the offseason considering he'd be set to make like $5M in Arb 3 which the Brewers will never pay for a middle reliever. DFA'ing him is risking losing 4 months of a solid relief pitcher albeit one that can't be option and that Murphy currently doesn't trust to pitch leverage spots unless all the leverage arms are unavailable. DFA him and bring up someone who can shuttle so we always have fresh middle relief arms if Murphy isn't going to trust them.

[wiguy94]

28 minutes ago, Brewer77 said:

 

Sure he could have kept him in there, but I don’t think it would’ve been the right decision even with the heavy usage to some of their relievers. Henderson had reached both times against Patrick, has a 167 wRC+ vs. RHP and 18 wRC+ vs. LHP, and Patrick has surrendered a .901 OPS the third time through the order

Henderson walked on his first PA when Patrick just lost feel and threw 4 pretty non-competitive pitches out of 5 and in his second PA hit a soft bloop liner to CF that had an 80% catch probability that Chourio didn't catch. Patrick would have survived facing him a 3rd time.

[Brian]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

Seriously the owner of the Brewers can’t win. If they would’ve traded Yelich after winning an MVP and almost winning a second one, Attanasio would’ve been burned in effigy. Instead he gives Yelich an extension which any reasonable person should have seen would end poorly (almost 90% of them do) and now Attanasio a chump for not just simply cutting Yelich and eating almost $100 million

Yelich's extension isn't over with until the end of 2028, the way he looks he will be in a wheelchair by then. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

If I could give you half a thumbs up, I would. 1st paragraph is golden. As for the second, LA, NY, CHI, PHA-----there are a lot of organizations that can afford to damn the service clock. We can't. A couple of the pitchers at N'Ville, I'll give you that. But pitching isn't the main problem. If there were people at AAA that could make a difference we wouldn't have signed Dalbeck & Rosario.

Zamora?  Black once he's had a few more ABs (knowing hes already on the 40 man)??  Even pushing Wilken - there are other bats worth giving a look to fill positions that are currently an offensive black hole in Milwaukee if the poor production persists at 3rd and SS.

 

Not saying there's an obvious offensive savior who the Brewers have been holding back in the minors - but to me that means there should be less concern on the brewers' point of view on when a player they add to the 40 man would become a free agent 6-7 seasons later.

[Brian]

20 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

So what about him riding Abner Uribe like he's rubber armed Hoby Milner? Since Uribe was activated from his suspension he's 1st in G and 13th in IP among relievers. Yesterday he had Uribe throw for the 3rd day in a row despite throwing 35 pitches the previous two days.

Yes and talk about riding somebody?  Tyler Alexander has been used 11 innings more than Uribe. 

Murphy has no clue about pitching besides his caveman "good pitcher, bad pitcher" mentality.  

[Brian]

LOL a 90 year old typed this though it was true and funny.  "They must have ran out of pitchers today.  Murphy brought in Tyler Alexander again and he didn't have it.  Now they go to Pittsburgh where this dark cloud of rain will probably follow them." 

[TURBO]

Someone needs to stop the madness before Uribe blows a gasket.  This kid is our future closer, we can't over use him and expect these same results.

Murphy needs to get a handle on his usage for Abner right now!