Brewers at Pirates; Friday, May 23 @ 5:40 p.m.: Freddy Peralta (2.59 ERA, 3.68 FIP) vs. Paul Skenes (2.44 ERA, 2.75 FIP)

[SomewhereInTime]

1 hour ago, wiguy94 said:

My goodness this is horrific from Murphy. You know your pen is ravaged so instead of committing to Ashby when you got him up you sat him down and made him unavailable for the rest of the game.

 

Wow if thats the reason Ashby didnt pitch that is truly awful management.

[Bulldogboy]

Brewers miss Tyrone Taylor. 

[SomewhereInTime]

I think we're at the point now where you just have the starter go out and throw 105 pitches regardless of the score and outcome.

[Jim French Stepstool]

48 minutes ago, edfunderburk said:

I think you misunderstood what I said. 

I’m suggesting that we sell of our vets & promote our prospects so they can get big league experience like Chourio is getting. 

Gotcha.

[Jim French Stepstool]

41 minutes ago, SomewhereInTime said:

I think we're at the point now where you just have the starter go out and throw 105 pitches regardless of the score and outcome.

I looked at it yesterday & don't remember the exact placing, but they're somewhere like 26th in MLB in # of innings per start. Combine that with a reluctance to throw relievers more than an inning--or lack of people capable of doing it well--and this is the result.

It's to the point where you could justify arguing for full piggyback. Five starters, four or five people to come in halfway through---and go 3 innings or more---, and your 3 or 4 "late" guys if needed. Honestly, you could see them being able to do it if enough people could get & stay healthy.

[SomewhereInTime]

8 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I looked at it yesterday & don't remember the exact placing, but they're somewhere like 26th in MLB in # of innings per start. Combine that with a reluctance to throw relievers more than an inning--or lack of people capable of doing it well--and this is the result.

It's to the point where you could justify arguing for full piggyback. Five starters, four or five people to come in halfway through---and go 3 innings or more---, and your 3 or 4 "late" guys if needed. Honestly, you could see them being able to do it if enough people could get & stay healthy.

Good idea on paper but it all falls apart when the piggy back pitcher is pulled after going one inning and giving up four runs.

[BlightyBrew]

Crew K for 5.1  innings (8 by Skenes and 8 by the relievers)

11 Hits only 1 for xbh

 

[brewmann04]

I think the really need these starters need. To go over 5 innings to at least get the bullpen big time rest 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, SomewhereInTime said:

Good idea on paper but it all falls apart when the piggy back pitcher is pulled after going one inning and giving up four runs.

If that becomes chronic, then you have a problem. If it's just on occasion, hell, teams usually have 17, 18 man staffs if you count the shuttle. Another ass-covering move is to have a starter or two that's immune to the system, like a Woodruff pre-injury.

It isn't foolproof, nothing is. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone semi-commits to it one year. Another intriguing idea is the 'opener' that can go once through the order as opposed to one inning (Dan Plesac might've been terrific in such a role if it existed then. Today, maybe a Yoho). Try to take a starter that goes sour after 90-95 pitches through the 8th. Thirteen-man staffs give you some possible options. Mad scientist stuff.😉

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Uribe needed to close the game out. That trumps anything Murphy did. Same thing happened 2 days ago. 

[adambr2]

9 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Yeah that's just not true. If Hoskins still has a 130-140 wRC+ come the deadline the Brewers will get more than "clearing salary off the books" to trade him.

Also referring back to your original post you implied nobody in the lineup has value but some pitchers do? Outside of Peralta and Contreras nobody on our roster (that we would ever consider trading) would net a big trade return. If Hoskins is still a 130-140 wRC+ guy he'd be our best reasonable trade asset outside of Peralta and Contreras.

Salary matters. Control matters. Hoskins has a relatively high salary and just a couple months of control. It’s just not about his wRC. I don’t know what you reasonably think that we would get for him.

[Frisbee Slider]

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

Salary matters. Control matters. Hoskins has a relatively high salary and just a couple months of control. It’s just not about his wRC. I don’t know what you reasonably think that we would get for him.

The Freddy Peralta lottery ticket we got for Adam Lind in 2015?

[Brewer77]

Last year Jesse Winker and Justin Turner both returned a prospect that currently sits within each team’s top 20. Both were guys on expiring contracts with little defensive value. Hoskins will be owed like $10m, while Turner had about $5m left and Winker less than $1m. If the Brewers eat a chunk of that money and Hoskins keeps producing at this level, they could get an organizational top 10-20 prospect for him. If his production slips closer to the Turner/Winker range and they don’t want to eat money, then you’re probably hoping for a player that can sneak into your top 30. Just my guess based on past experience 

[Jopal78]

11 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Please point out where I said he would get a blue chipper for Hoskins?

“Nice return”? You’re arguing  semantics now.
 

 Unless by “nice return” you mean receiving something in exchange besides just salary relief, but that’s setting the bar pretty low for what constitutes a “nice return” isn’t it?

@adambr2 is right, Hoskins is a rental bat who doesn’t run well or play particularly strong defense and has a large contract this year plus a buyout on a mutual option for next year. If the Brewers sell and trade him, the demand isn’t going to be there and it’s probably a minimal return and mostly salary relief. 

[wiguy94]

1 hour ago, Brewer77 said:

Last year Jesse Winker and Justin Turner both returned a prospect that currently sits within each team’s top 20. Both were guys on expiring contracts with little defensive value. Hoskins will be owed like $10m, while Turner had about $5m left and Winker less than $1m. If the Brewers eat a chunk of that money and Hoskins keeps producing at this level, they could get an organizational top 10-20 prospect for him. If his production slips closer to the Turner/Winker range and they don’t want to eat money, then you’re probably hoping for a player that can sneak into your top 30. Just my guess based on past experience 

Yeah it’s pretty clear if Hoskins is producing near where he has been to this point that he’s going to get more than just salary relief. 

[Brewer77]

I think I’ve found the perfect Hoskins trade: 

Mariners: Hoskins, Cash

Brewers: LHP Brandyn Garcia

The amount of cash determines if the Brewers get another lower level prospect or not. The Mariners are in first and have gotten below average production from 1B/DH. Garcia was successful as a starter last year, but the Mariners have pushed him to the bullpen in AA. He’s touching upper 90s from a funky release point. He has the Koenig arsenal that they could try to stretch back out into a starter. Either way, multiple fastballs, unique arm angle, etc are all hallmarks of what this FO likes

 

 

[adambr2]

5 hours ago, Frisbee Slider said:

The Freddy Peralta lottery ticket we got for Adam Lind in 2015?

Actually a really good comp for what we could get for Rhys. But with the context that when we acquired Peralta, thats all he was — an 18 year old lottery ticket that could possibly, maybe, become something. Wasn’t even a top 30 organizational prospect.

[edfunderburk]

14 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I looked at it yesterday & don't remember the exact placing, but they're somewhere like 26th in MLB in # of innings per start. Combine that with a reluctance to throw relievers more than an inning--or lack of people capable of doing it well--and this is the result.

It's to the point where you could justify arguing for full piggyback. Five starters, four or five people to come in halfway through---and go 3 innings or more---, and your 3 or 4 "late" guys if needed. Honestly, you could see them being able to do it if enough people could get & stay healthy.

I love this approach - I hope the Brewers go this route once they have their injured pitchers healthy. 👏