Other ill effects from Braves series: MVP and ROY? (Merged: Negro League Museum Awards)

[pogokat]

braun's numbers would make him an elie at any position...he's matched pujols in a lot of ways this season...

 

i want him to play 3b next year...but i wouldnt lose sleep if they move him...

[craigharmann]

Does Braun project to left? Do we want another guy learning the outfield on the job again next year? Just wondering.

[Fatter than Joey]

I guess my philosophy is that he hasn't shown any improvement this year, and I would rather the Brewers would acknowledge that he isn't a good fielder and put him at an easier position rather than gamble he is going to make the jump from a sub .900 fielder to a .950 fielder.

 

As far as Weeks goes, he still is a horrible fielder -- not as bad as Braun, but I guess if I learned anything from Weeks, it would be that you can make incremental improvements, but it probably is not wise to count on or hope for huge improvements.

 

It sort of is like hoping Counsell will hit .275 next year -- anything could happen, but is not likely.

[sheetswannabe]

Mvp, ROY

[dadofandrew]

That isn't the actual awards, it's something given out by the Negro League Museum.

[Oldcity]

Not really sure how it can go to Tulo. He's a fantastic defensive player but he was just an average hitter away from Coors. Braun's D is awful but he had one of the best rookie offensive seasons of all time.

[Oldcity]

Yeah I was just about to say that too. These aren't the official awards yet, though the Writers' award will probably be the same.

[Fatter than Joey]

Not really sure how it can go to Tulo. He's a fantastic defensive player but he was just an average hitter away from Coors. Braun's D is awful but he had one of the best rookie offensive seasons of all time.

 

I think you nailed it -- no aspect of Tulo's game is awful -- Braun's D is wretched -- I know I would have a hard time giving the award to Braun playing such horrible D. If Braun played average D, he'd run away with the award.

[homer]

I hate to admit it, but if I had to vote I'd probably vote for Tulo. He's already gold glove caliber at SS.

 

 

I'm just glad I have both of them on my fantasy team. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[SeriesFinale]

Tulo is being shoved down everyone's throats for an extra three weeks, no way Braun wins the award now

[Fatter than Joey]

I think the voting happened before the post-season

[DannoMac21]

In a possible precursor to the Baseball Writers' Association of America awards, Rockies shortstop Troy Tulowitzki won the Larry Doby rookie of the year award over Brewers shortstop Ryan Braun.

 

Braun's a shortstop?

[pitchleague]

yep, ballots for major awards were due Oct. 1st. Post-season has absolutely NO bearing on the voting.

[Ennder]

Tulo is a well below average hitter outside of Coors so there is no way I give it to him. The fielding is nice and all but I'm not giving the award to a slick fielding light hitting SS and thats what Tulo was without the Coors park factor inflating his numbers.

[TooLiveBrew]

Rockies shortstop Troy Tulowitzki won the Larry Doby rookie of the year award over Brewers shortstop Ryan Braun.

Amen, rw23. Come on, McCalvy, that's just lazy. If you're gonna copy & paste, at least proofread.

[logan82]

When dd we trade JJ Hardy? I could have sworn he was our SS at the end of the year. I thought we would move Hall back to SS before Braun.

[homer]

"The fielding is nice and all but I'm not giving the award to a slick fielding light hitting SS and thats what Tulo was without the Coors park factor inflating his numbers"

 

So do you just ignore his home stats? And what exactly is the Coors effect this year?

[Baldkin]

Home: .326 .392 .568 .960

Away: .256 .327 .393 .720

 

 

That's pretty bad away from Coors.

 

Coors Park Factors:

R HR H 2B 3B BB

Coors Field (Denver, Colorado)

1.160

1.218

1.120

1.256

1.513

0.943

[Fatter than Joey]

So do you just ignore his home stats? And what exactly is the Coors effect this year?

 

Stats like VORP and WARP factor in parks.

 

I think we had a discussion in another thread that Braun's fielding was off the charts, and negates 75% of his offensive production.

 

No aspect of Tulo's game is poor, given his position.

[homer]

Right but I'm saying is it that big an advantage to play at Coors nowadays? I thought the park effect had come way down. Maybe I'm wrong...

[Fatter than Joey]

So do you just ignore his home stats? And what exactly is the Coors effect this year?

 

Stats like VORP and WARP factor in parks.

 

I think we had a discussion in another thread that Braun's fielding was off the charts, and negates 75% of his offensive production.

 

No aspect of Tulo's game is poor, given his position.

[Ennder]

We'll just agree to disagree. I do not like WARP at all because I think the BP fielding metrics are extremely flawed. VORP is kind of iffy too because I don't think replacement player is the proper comparison, you should be comparing them to an average player at the position at best.

 

Tulo's numbers are so heavily influenced by his home park that I think you can almost completely throw out the offensive side and I dont' think ROY should just be earned for defense.

[TooLiveBrew]

well on the flip side of that, should the ROY be earned on just offense? I obviously hope Braun reels it in, but it's odd that we have two players that are both kind of one-dimensional. It makes for very interesting debate, and the fact that you really have to dig into the stats to find Tulo's edge makes me think that Braun has a leg up on Troy. It really seems most sportswriters want nothing to do with such research.

 

EDIT: Right but I'm saying is it that big an advantage to play at Coors nowadays? I thought the park effect had come way down. Maybe I'm wrong...

 

Well, staying on-topic for this thread, Holliday's home SLG - .722. Road - .485.

 

Atkins - .527/.446

Hawpe - .612/.462

Helton - .533/.460

Matsui - .482/.333

Torrealba - .424/.326

 

While there is no identical gap for any two players, there still appears to be a pretty clear advantage for hitters at Coors Field.

[1992casey]

I'd bet that the people who chose the Negro League Museum award winners were more motivated than sportswriters would be in the research department.

[Fatter than Joey]

We'll just agree to disagree.

 

For the record, my official position is more along the lines of "Braun is not going to run away with it". It's not as if I disagree with the validity of your arguments.

 

I think the BP fielding metrics are extremely flawed

 

Perhaps, -- but I don't think we need refined metrics to conclude that Braun was horrible at third.

 

I guess in a very selfish way I hope Tulo wins it, and maybe someone for the Brewers clues in to the concept of improving our D -- w/o simply crossing fingers and hoping players just organically improve.