UpandIn

Again...the people laughing at the Mets are doing so without a good reason. In THAT situation, it worked out well. Mets go to a World Series and they end up with David Wright as compensation for the player they got with the savings from the Bonilla deferred compensation. This also isn't even REMOTELY similar to Bobby Bonilla's deal. The Mets had Bobby Bonilla ALREADY on the books. They traded away a nearly 6M dollar contract to go out and add an ace who was the NLCS MVP and pitched them to the World Series. A guy coming off a 22-4 season 2.90 ERA ~6.7 WAR season in which he was a Cy Young runner up. The Brewers are deferring 90M here and they're not getting anything for it. Deferring 90M is more like the Nationals with Scherzer or Strausburg making it make less sense here than Bonilla. In this scenario, the Brewers just blow out the future for no actual upgrade over last year. Why would we do that?

Amazing, isn't it? I never thought we'd see a Title in my lifetime(just like a Brewers WS). Yeah...you COULD trade that 2029 1st, but...damn that'd be dangerous. That'd be 1st draft without Giannis(in a worst case scenario in which Giannis leaves).

They're pretty much echoing the sentiments of Eric Nehm(Sp?) from the Athletic. I like Crowder...but he's not a great shooter and I don't know that he's actually an upgrade. Teams are going to be selling for maybe the best NBA prospect since LeBron in next years draft. You'll likely have more teams tanking this year than ever. Plus, if Joe Ingles comes back, then where's he going to play? It'd be nice to have Jrue, Crowder, Middleton, Ingles and Giannis on the court at times, but in a few months, you'll be able to include Nowra in a trade and other players they signed this past off-season. Allen is on a cheap deal, he's younger...hold onto him unless you can make a trade that significantly improves the team.

There's also just the fact that Bucks fans are kinda getting spoiled. Years past, we waited for opening night. Now it's just kinda waiting until we get to April before some start paying attention.

He needs NBA minutes. ESPECIALLY in blowouts. I know we're still looking at trades and I'd guess we're trying to build some type of value for Nwora, rebuild Hill's value, but he'd likely be our best on ball defender on the wing(or at least when Jrue's not playing) and his shot looks fine. Obviously he's not a finished product or anywhere near it, but with Middleton and Connaughton out, he should be getting some minutes. Of course...we know Bud would rather have bamboo placed under his finger nails than play rookies. But for the oldest team in the league, it's important to actually develop him.

That is...surprising and incredibly impressive. I didn't realize he was that disciplined of a hitter. Some of the quickest hands I've ever seen and the obvious comp when Rickie Weeks came along. Seems to me like both sides handled this situation poorly...and the 20 year old phenom is generally going to be the one who ends up looking bad. I know there were accusations of him faking an injury after playing poorly, then being sent down...playing poorly there and then him insisting his foot was in fact hurt, then later realizing they'd missed a fracture in his foot. 30 years ago now, so assigning blame is kinda pointless.With that said...I still harbor a great deal of resentment to Bando for ruining my childhood and forcing Molitor out of Milwaukee! I don't know if that should actually be in blue.

That is...surprising and incredibly impressive. I didn't realize he was that disciplined of a hitter. Some of the quickest hands I've ever seen and the obvious comp when Rickie Weeks came along. Seems to me like both sides handled this situation poorly...and the 20 year old phenom is generally going to be the one who ends up looking bad. I know there were accusations of him faking an injury after playing poorly, then being sent down...playing poorly there and then him insisting his foot was in fact hurt, then later realizing they'd missed a fracture in his foot. 30 years ago now, so assigning blame is kinda pointless.With that said...I still harbor a great deal of resentment to Bando for ruining my childhood and forcing Molitor out of Milwaukee! I don't know if that should actually be in blue.

And Jrue was BRUTAL offensively. But Carter looked good. The new defensive...scheme, ideology, whatever you'd like to call it, that seemed effective. Very few open 3's. Gave up some layups we otherwise wouldn't have. Really hope Beauchamp is going to be part of the rotation early in the season and tonight was an exception. Otherwise, nice opening night.

A tank job unlike any other? No...I don't think it would be. I also don't think they'd lose 100 games if you took Burnes and Adames out and replaced them with that group. Though it likely wouldn't be competitive in 2023. Either way, definitely not a tank job.

Even after you graduate a lot of the players, IF you made this Dodgers trade, you're still looking at a loaded system the following year. Chourio, Quero, Black, Misioroski, Avina, Brown Jr and then Cartaya could be a top 10 along with Chourio, I expect Quero in the top ~40 or so next year. The biggest problem is the Dodgers just aren't Padres like desperate. I think this is one of those trades that's equal on the trade machines and...makes sense in a vacuum, but I don't see the Dodgers giving up...possibly 36+ years of pretty premium quality prospects for 4 years of Adames and Burnes collectively and then what kinda amounts to throw in's with Feliciano and Taylor. Maybe we go back to the Padres. They continue to draft well and have Merrill, Lysko, Snelling and some other nice talent STILL(as much as I like the Brewers recent drafted philosophy, I'd like to see them get a little more aggressive with young arms). But again, as much as I want to see this team add a bat and run it back next year with their core, some smaller tweaks and our young guys, I don't think I could pass on that particular trade if the Dodgers were willing to. But when they can realistically spend ~300M on payroll, I think it's more likely they would go out and add a couple of those TOR arms like deGrom, Verlander, Rodon(or or two of those players) as well as either re-signing Turner or maybe they sign another SS. Correa would make a lot of sense for them given his age and productivity(plus I believe his tools will age better as Turner's speed is so vital and if he has to move off SS, it'd likely be to 2B or even the OF whereas I think Correa would make a GG 3B with his hands, range(even if diminished) and arm. No half measures though. If you're going to bring this squad back, go out and make a serious offer to Abreu. We've heard Attanasio talk about how they could fit ANY player or trade into the budget, not just this year, but the next 2-3 years. So instead of adding Soto and giving up equal value in prospects(which we lacked) then go after Abreu and push that payroll into the ~140-150 range...which I believe is still a reasonable range with the increasing revenue across the league.

LOL...I can't read. I don't know why I just saw Burnes, Taylor and Feliciano. OK then...that's actually a pretty plausible return for the two then. Walker Buehler, SP Diego Cartaya, C (AAA-MLB) Miguel Vargas, 3B-1B-OF Ryan Pepiot, SP Michael Grove, SP (stash in Nashville) Bobby Miller, SP (stash in Nashville) Maddux Bruns, SP (start in A or A+) If you're actually gonna re-load, that's a whoole lot of talent. This would be a mix of that 2018 staff with a deep, deep BP and a couple of TOR arms(if you kept Woodruff-in which case, this trade actually makes more sense to me). Gonna gut the offense, BUT, if you could fit Busch in there? Turang is hardly a sure thing at SS offensively, but if you can at least put Vargas, Busch on that IF, you'd have a deep, young team. Who knows what the staff will look like, but they'd at least be able to grow with our young position prospects. You're going to piss the fan base off quite a bit, but it could be intriguing in 2024. Woodruff Buehler Miller Peralta Pepiot Ashby(or swap him and Gasser and he actually could be a potential Hader like multi-inning reliever). C-Cartaya/Quero 1B-Busch 2B-Vargas SS-Turang 3B-Black LF-Frelick CF-Mitchell RF-Wiemer DH-Yelich BP-Williams Uribe Grove Stone Gasser That's like a 70M payroll, you keep an anchor in your rotation and you've got some players to potentially flip for position prospects. Buehler for instance, get him healthy and he's an ace. So you either try and give him a Glasnow type extension(probably on the low end) or you flip him as well. Lauer, Urias, Tellez. 2023 would be an interesting year. Potentially the top Farm System in the game, a lot of growing pains, but it'd get interesting after that. I'd be handing out Braves like extensions like Bobbleheads(to those who'd take them). Interesting idea anyway.

Definitely conflicts with what Stearns said, but...I don't agree there's no point in Buehler. TBH, I saw that trade and I thought he was factoring Buehler's injury in as that's a...BIG haul for Burnes. Just Cartaya, Vargas, Pepiot, Miller is a whole lot. But that trade is actually pretty interesting with Buehler. See how he recovers, maybe a Tyler Glasnow type deal if he's on schedule and recovering next year. He's got elite stuff. I don't think the Dodgers would include Cartaya in that trade, but...even then, still a pretty nice return.

Burnes and Woodruff are 27 and 29. Nola and Wheeler are 29 and 32. Not sure how the argument could be made that they've "burnt their peaks."

Burnes and Woodruff are 27 and 29. Nola and Wheeler are 29 and 32. Not sure how the argument could be made that they've "burnt their peaks."

"Vastly inferior?" 87-75 86-76 (This includes two games in which the Phillies won in their final AB). By definition, they were not "vastly inferior" to either team...though, you could certainly argue both were "vastly inferior" to the Cards, the Mets, the Braves and the Dodgers.... And yet? I'm not sure when this is going to resonate that it's not even about the Brewers, it's about the very nature of Baseball, small sample sizes and the fluctuation therein that give teams with "no chance" a chance in the playoffs....which is why those "Super Teams" are now out of the playoffs and the Phillies are 3 wins away from the World Series. Particularly when that team has two aces atop their rotation. I guess using this logic though...they REALLY should just kinda sell everyone. They're going to have "no chance" next year vs the Braves. The Dodgers? They may be even better next year. Padres are going to re-load and bring Tatis back. I suppose we just kinda...cut down that apple tree?

They got a elite catching prospect, a top ~50 pitching prospect and then a older AA OFer who is not much of a prospect and a lottery ticket. That really wasn't much for Turner and Scherzer. The Dodgers did offer Seager a pretty big deal(8 years ~32M per). But he was 2 years younger than Turner in his Free Agent year, though Turner seems to be less of a health risk. It'll be interesting to see how they approach the off-season. I think Turner is the most important part of that Dodgers lineup. I'd suspect the Dodgers try and give him a shorter deal with a higher AAV, but we're in a weird place where there's almost a surplus good shortstops and not enough teams with the budget to sign them. Boston has lowballed Bogaerts, the Dodgers haven't aggressively tried to retain Turner. The Braves have tried with Swanson, though they've got most of their lineup locked up through this decade and their top prospect is a...SS. I don't think we're going to see many, if any SS's who will be getting 10 year deals @30M or more a year. At least not in the immediate future. I think the few teams going after Shortstops are going to push the price down...unless a team really loves a player. The Mets will probably sign Turner to make him a utility player after giving 3/130 to deGrom and 2/90 to Verlander. Correa, Turner, Swanson, Boegarts, Anderson(I think that's a Team option though). The Twins seem all in on Correa, even willing to go into the high 200's to sign him(reportedly). Beyond that, if Boston only wants to Bogaerts 20M a year(he's reportedly insulted that Boston's negotiations thus far included adding on one year and 20M on an already well below market deal), skeptical they'll be in on any of them. The Yankees have Volpe and Peraza(#5 and #50 overall ranked prospects respectively and both in AAA or higher). The Angels would also seem unlikely, but...maybe they're desperate. So it feels like a very small group of teams going after a group of high end FAs who'd normally be looking at massive deals. I think the few teams looking will lower the price and do the opposite with the SPing. Or at least shorten the deal the SS's get. The SPers I expect will get 3years, maybe 5 for deGrom with opt outs again. 40+ for the top couple. All that to say that I think you're right. If the Dodgers can't get Turner for a 7-8 year deal, I think they're a great fit for Adames. I'd ask for Miller and Vargas. The Dodgers are reportedly higher on Pepiot and Stone despite Miller being rated higher. Another sticking point in trading pitchers is the two organizations seem to be very similar in the type of pitchers they target in terms of analytics, spin rate, etc...the pitchers we like are more likely the ones they're high on.

What SHOULD they make? Most sports with strong unions negotiate a split of about 50% of the revenue going toward the players, 50 to the owners. Why shouldn't the players benefit? Also...it's not like tickets would be a drop down to a buck a seat if you dropped players salaries to say...100K a year. Ticket prices wouldn't be impacted by players salaries being cut, so...give the money to the players or give the money to the owners?

September Padres 13-12 100 RS, 102 RA Phillies 11-14 101 RS, 115 RA Brewers 15-13 119 RS 118 RA

It's really not passion. The 2006 Cards you're talking about, they did have Super teams(like the Braves and Dodgers, both of whom are now out). They had the Mets, Yankees... But lets look at 2007. The Rockies, 76-72. 5 back of the Pads late in the year. They ended up winning 21 of their next 22 games to finish up 97-73 before running into the Red Sox. The year before? 2005, the 89 win Astros and the Cards, who by your metrics, would again, qualify as a Super team. #1 pitching staff, #3 in Runs, Prime Pujols, Walker, Jim Edmonds... The Astros? 11th in the NL in Rs scored, very flawed team. How about this year? The Phillies. The team that beat us by one whole game after we collapsed. They're in the NLCS vs...the Pads. The team that the Brewers nearly chased down despite constantly tripping over their own...shoelaces at the end of the season. So you've got the Pads-Phillies, and you COULD very well have the Guardians and the Astros. Please don't tell me you know what would have happened had the Brewers gotten into the playoffs. Phillies fans were saying the same thing, their team was "terrible," and we scored more run than the Pads and our team ERA was 3.83 to 3.81. The sum of baseball history at your fingertips and you think it's inconceivable that the Brewers win a game vs a lefty? How about this...we score a run? How did the D-backs score multiple runs over Rivera in the bottom of the 9th? Because...it was the playoffs. Here's a scenario. Yelich walks. Adames hits a HR. Shocking, we scored on a lefty who is probably going to throw 4 innings in that game. Maybe Renfroe hits one next. Virtually EVERY YEAR we see a team that's "not doing anything," if they get in and...shockingly, they do something. Last year, the sub .500 Braves...they got in. They won. Couple years ago, had the Nats beat. They had "no chance." Won a World Series. We lost 4 games, 2 vs Philly, 2 vs SD with the lead in the 9th and lost. That's the margin and we finish ahead of the two very flawed teams heading to the WS(well, one of them will). So, sure, I'm passionate about the Brewers. ON THIS however, I'm just using the entire history of baseball to point out thi sis an inherently flawed argument.

I didn't mean you literally did not have someone to play in RF. I meant a replacement as in...someone who WASN'T a dramatic drop off in ability. .233/.286/.442 .729 OPS .255/.315/.492 .807 OPS Upside; Taylor's splits are fairly even. Downside; Taylor's splits are fairly even. We couldn't score runs. Solution...get rid of our best hitter, our best RHed bat, get rid of our 2nd best hitter(which makes some sense, but probably wise to pay 8M for the 2B with 3.2 WAR as I don't think it'd be hard to trade him). But we're bringing back all 3 of the players who both cost a great deal of money(most likely far more than you're proposing) and...we rid of the two best hitters. What exactly is the point in this? And...once again, the Mets bought out Bonilla so they could go out and sign Mike Hampton who was coming off a 22-4, 2.90 ERA, 6.7 WAR season in which he was Cy Young runner up. Why would we do the stupid half of the Mets deferred money...but not the smart half? Now, if Wiemer can buck traditional trends and he can come up and hit MLB caliber pitching right out of the gate...then this wild gamble STILL wouldn't pay off as we need to find a way to hit LFers better. So how about you keep the guy who gives you an ~.800 OPS each year and ~30 HRs and HOPE the guy in AAA can come up and perform and make your team better rather than get rid of another player who hit well this year and count on a rookie(another rookie who's struggled to adjust when initially jumping leagues)?

I don't understand what point you're making. I didn't say anything about Renfroe and you're getting...very little back from Seattle other than...lottery tickets. That's fine if you have a replacement, but you don't have one that's ready.

Objectively NOT the truth. And I didn't says Peralta and Ashby were going to be throwing 145 pitches or be Madison Bumgarnder. I LITERALLY said "PIECE TOGETHER OTHER GAMES WITH....and then listed 4 pitchers with those two among them. But sure, Freddy couldn't possibly have gotten his command back.(Freddy did throw 4 shutout with 0BB and 4K with the season on the line, but he couldn't have helped as there's no way he could have gotten his command back). I presume you follow baseball other than just this season and just this Brewers team, right? https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2006.shtml Show me how this juggernaut was sooo much more talented than the rest of the playoff field? "This season needed to come to an end." I don't even know what that means honestly in this context and it sounds ridiculous. And the arrogance to say it's not even an ARGUMENT, it's just "the truth," c'mon...?

Right...I was obviously using the number that would have been in line with the Padres package. And I don't think the Padres would have ever considered that trade. Also, I'll just leave it here. I'm just very skeptical. You said It's "KNOWN to be used by MLB GMs in some capacity," and you have the creator saying people have told him some FOs do. It seems to me like you're just giving it credibility based on this anecdotal evidence and said anecdotal evidence is coming from the person who owns a product and is trying to promote it and himself.

I mean...I hate to be...well, a dick, but that's not really proof. That's a guy saying someone in a front office emailed him to say they used his web site. I think that's a good leap from proof that MLB GMs use it. I could see them having some intern run it through and if they find a major discrepancy taking another look, OR maybe using this in a back and forth saying, "hey, we're giving up more value here," but...at most. These teams have pretty sophisticated systems and this offers virtually no nuance. That Corbin Burnes value would place him in the range of the package the Pads gave up for Soto. If that's the case, I'd have made that trade. I just remain skeptical. I'm not saying it has no value, but just that it feels closer to the NBA Trade Machine or PFF Mock draft simulator. A little tool mostly for fans. Anyway, love the idea of Jansen, but if giving up someone like Wiemer, I'd want more than 2 years of team control. Though, to be fair, he would line up pretty damn well with Quero. Ruiz would be more palpable to me though.

That seems incredibly unrealistic for a player who will be 32, has played over 96 games TWICE in his career. He's a nice player...when healthy. That's not often. And it really seems to be at odds with the "trade Renfroe for salary" argument you've made...fairly regularly. He's also coming off his worst year, played in 57 games, his defense has diminished...leading to him getting time at DH. Nice player. Not a guy who's likely to get "at LEAST three times"(15M) a year with all those issues. Glancing at a couple Mariners sites, he's looking for something in the ~3/30 range.