Cameron for Melky Cabrera? Nick Swisher?

[Fatter than Joey]

They'll give up more. Cabrera could be a nice addition and I think it's easy to forget how young he is. Cam is old and he WILL decline.

 

We are only hooked into Cam for one year, I doubt he is going to decline that substantially.

[Ennder]

Mota's WPA was -0.49. Pretty sure the Mets aren't upset about jettisoning a pitcher who harmed his team and cost $3.5 m.

 

Yes Igawa has value, but its gamble at $12m on 29 year old who couls easily be passed his prime due to abuse by Japanese managers.

WPA is based on an average not a replacement level. He was somewhere between .5 and 1 wins above replacement. He earned his salary last year or at least came very close to earning it.

[BrewCrewForever]

According to Tim Brown at Yahoo Sports if the Brewers move Cameron and have some extra cash they will get in on Brian Fuentes.

[RockCoCougars]

According to Tim Brown at Yahoo Sports if the Brewers move Cameron and have some extra cash they will get in on Brian Fuentes.

If that's the case, I'd rather just keep Cameron. I have no interest giving a guy like Fuentes big money for multiple years.

[And That]

I have no interest giving a guy like Fuentes big money for multiple years.

A very good reliever?

 

To me, a Cabrera for Cameron or Cabrera and Igawa for Cameron trade is a win for the Yankees in a vacuum. However, if trading Cameron for Cabrera (and Igawa) frees up enough money for Fuentes, I'd say 3 years of Fuentes, Cabrera and Igawa would quite probably be more valuable than a year of Cameron.

[TooLiveBrew]

But that's assuming that the Crew couldn't get a better return on Cameron than the Yankees' guy(s). I think Melvin needs to hold off (like it appears he is) & find a better offer. I'd even play the odds that keeping Cam 'til the trading deadline would net us a better return.

 

Sure, Fuentes is a good reliever, but I don't know if he's worth the kind of money he's going to command in FA. Our bullpen right now really isn't in bad shape at all. How many wins would he really add over what we already have? I know he'd be an improvement but if we're talking about allocation of resouces Dunn or even Burrell would probably be money better spent.

[danzig6767]

But that's assuming that the Crew couldn't get a better return on Cameron than the Yankees' guy(s). I think Melvin needs to hold off (like it appears he is) & find a better offer. I'd even play the odds that keeping Cam 'til the trading deadline would net us a better return.

 

Sure, Fuentes is a good reliever, but I don't know if he's worth the kind of money he's going to command in FA. Our bullpen right now really isn't in bad shape at all. How many wins would he really add over what we already have? I know he'd be an improvement but if we're talking about allocation of resouces Dunn or even Burrell would probably be money better spent.

I'm sure other teams can see that Cameron is available and would i'd assume have called Melvin if interested.

 

As for Dunn or Burrell, has anything come out at all to show Melvin has any interest in either guy?

[MillerParkSouth]

I would LOVE to get Fuentes, but I don't think Cam needs to be moved until Fuentes is a Brewer. I'd hate to trade Cam for fifty cents on the dollar and then have Fuentes sign with Anaheim, like he's said he wants to. I just have a hard time believing that the best we could do for a top 5 CF would be a 4th OF and Key freaking Igawa. The Yanks need to make the trade more than the Brewers do.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm sure other teams can see that Cameron is available and would i'd assume have called Melvin if interested.

 

I wonder if once Dunn/Burrell/etc. sign the market for Cameron might improve.

 

 

As for Dunn or Burrell, has anything come out at all to show Melvin has any interest in either guy?

 

I haven't heard anything. The part I mentioned about that duo is just mho.

[nate82]

As for Dunn or Burrell, has anything come out at all to show Melvin has any interest in either guy?

I haven't seen much or any news on Dunn or Burrell from anyone. Both of these guys may come cheap enough for the Brewers in terms of years and money.

[Tbadder]

Count me as one of those guys who wants Melvin to walk away from this deal. Wait for the regular season. Someone will get hurt and need Cameron, and then our return should be better than the drek the Yankees are offering.

[snyttri]

The Yanks need to make the trade more than the Brewers do.

 

I think with many teams cutting back on payroll teams willing to take on overpaid players are in the driver's seat. It doesn't seem like anyone but the Yankees is interested in Cameron at that salary. The Brewers may have signed him with the expectation that they could acquire a cheaper useful player specifically from the Yankees for Cameron. If the Yankees won't take him for a reasonable return the Brewers may be stuck using money needed for pitching in center field.

[Brian the Automator]

I think with many teams cutting back on payroll teams willing to take on overpaid players are in the driver's seat. It doesn't seem like anyone but the Yankees is interested in Cameron at that salary. The Brewers may have signed him with the expectation that they could acquire a cheaper useful player specifically from the Yankees for Cameron. If the Yankees won't take him for a reasonable return the Brewers may be stuck using money needed for pitching in center field.

I think you're right about the Yanks being in the driver's seat, for now. Based on team needs, there aren't many teams that are looking for CF help. However, in S/T, when the injury bug starts to hit, a team will probably be more interested.

[TooLiveBrew]

And I think it's important to note that without Mike Cameron, the Brewers themselves have a pressing need in CF.

[MNBrew]

To me, a Cabrera for Cameron or Cabrera and Igawa for Cameron trade is a win for the Yankees in a vacuum. However, if trading Cameron for Cabrera (and Igawa) frees up enough money for Fuentes, I'd say 3 years of Fuentes, Cabrera and Igawa would quite probably be more valuable than a year of Cameron.

I keep going back & forth on this Cameron-Cabrera thing. In general I like the idea but I do hate the idea of the Brewers getting the short end of any deal baseball-wise, and this has high potential for that. On the other hand, if it enables them to make another move, the result of which is potentially a longer-term, much more positive situation, then you can't just judge the trade by the trade itself -- rather, judge the trade by itself AND the moves it enables. Is the sum total a collective step up than the previous situation?

 

I like And That's suggestion of Cameron netting Fuentes + Cabrera & Igawa. That's a net positive return. Two positions covered & possibly a 3rd (Igawa) for the same net money that would've covered CF alone, and for the roughly the same dollars getting a better overall roster? Sign me up.

[Brian the Automator]

And I think it's important to note that without Mike Cameron, the Brewers themselves have a pressing need in CF.

There's always the possibility of moving Hart to CF and finding a corner OFer (Burrell). It's not without its problems, but it is an option.

[crewcrazy]

As for Dunn or Burrell, has anything come out at all to show Melvin has any interest in either guy?

I haven't seen much or any news on Dunn or Burrell from anyone. Both of these guys may come cheap enough for the Brewers in terms of years and money.

The Teixeira decision is holding up a lot of teams right now. I've read more than a handful of reports saying that if the Nationals don't get Tex, they're going to make a huge offer to Dunn. If I had to guess, Burrell ends up signing with whatever team comes in second on Dunn...they're virtually the same player, but Dunn is left-handed.

 

Still, you'd think Dunn and Burrell would draw more interest since they weren't even offered arby. The only thing you'd have to give up to get either one is money, and you wouldn't have to sweat losing the draft picks.

[nate82]

The Teixeira decision is holding up a lot of teams right now. I've read more than a handful of reports saying that if the Nationals don't get Tex, they're going to make a huge offer to Dunn. If I had to guess, Burrell ends up signing with whatever team comes in second on Dunn...they're virtually the same player, but Dunn is left-handed.

 

Still, you'd think Dunn and Burrell would draw more interest since they weren't even offered arby. The only thing you'd have to give up to get either one is money, and you wouldn't have to sweat losing the draft picks.

But will Dunn accept a contract to another team that has a very low chance of making the playoffs? The Nationals don't really have the pitching to compete next year against the Phillies, Braves, and Mets. I don't even see the Nationals as a Wild Card contender even with Teixeira since they really need a lot of starting pitching help. I could see Teixeira signing with the Nationals since it would be a rather long term contract. I don't see Dunn being a fit for the Nationals I would believe Dunn would get as much money on a shorter contract compared to the one the Nationals would give him.

 

What is interesting though is if the Angels miss out on Teixeira they will more than likely go after Manny and use him as a DH/4th or 5th OF. It looks as though the Angels will go the Manny route than Dunn or Burrell. I wouldn't mind seeing Dunn or Burrell in LF next year for the Brewers since it does give us a luxury to trade Prince next year.

 

Not to go to far off topic but the Cameron deal may have a lot of implications of where the Brewers will be going this off season. If Melvin decides to just keep Cameron I believe the Brewers will keep the offense as is right now and then go after Johnson or Smoltz. I would rather have Johnson though but Smoltz could be a good closer option for a year or two and I wouldn't be against that either. But there are cheaper options for relievers in the market with better upside like Britton and others.

 

I would rather just keep Cameron and sign Johnson or take a gamble on a couple of pitchers and see which ones stick.

[Brian the Automator]

But will Dunn accept a contract to another team that has a very low chance of making the playoffs? The Nationals don't really have the pitching to compete next year against the Phillies, Braves, and Mets. I don't even see the Nationals as a Wild Card contender even with Teixeira since they really need a lot of starting pitching help. I could see Teixeira signing with the Nationals since it would be a rather long term contract. I don't see Dunn being a fit for the Nationals I would believe Dunn would get as much money on a shorter contract compared to the one the Nationals would give him.

Dunn's still just 29 years old. Given that it doesn't look like a team is going to give him a 5 year contract or anything, I don't think he'd have a problem taking a shorter contract with a big dollar amount, no matter who it's from. There's still plenty of time for him to play with a contender before he hangs 'em up.

[JohnBriggs12]

Kotsay at 1/3 of Cameron's price would be much better value for Brewers. Melvin gambled big time when he picked up Cameron's option. At $10 million there's just no other suitors for him.

 

If the Brewers are stuck with Cameron, it hurts their ability to get help elsewhere and burdens Macha with a lineup that has the same problem it had last season.

 

If Yanks go elsewhere, only way other teams get interested is if Brewers pick up some of his salary.

[fondybrewfan]

Kotsay at 1/3 of Cameron's price would be much better value for Brewers. Melvin gambled big time when he picked up Cameron's option. At $10 million there's just no other suitors for him.

 

If the Brewers are stuck with Cameron, it hurts their ability to get help elsewhere and burdens Macha with a lineup that has the same problem it had last season.

 

If Yanks go elsewhere, only way other teams get interested is if Brewers pick up some of his salary.

You really don't think there would be a market for a Top #10 OPS outfielder (3rd in the NL) who is still easily a Top 10 defender and is only making $10M for a single year? I would think many teams would be interested in that type of production, especially considering it would only be a one year commitment. But it does appear that teams (except the Yankees) have been a little hesitant in spending cash this offseason.

[endaround]

Kotsay at 1/3 of Cameron's price would be much better value for Brewers. Melvin gambled big time when he picked up Cameron's option. At $10 million there's just no other suitors for him. .

 

Kotsay's UZR/150 was -15.7 in 2008 Cameron's UZR/150 was 13.3 in 2008 Yep, Cameron's defense alone makes him worth $10m more than Kotsay not even including him being a better offensive player.

[brosto1]

I think the problem Melvin faces with dealing Cameron is there are few options out there. It isn't because Cameron isn't any good, he is. The problem lies with possible suitors. Here is a list of teams .500 or better from last year and their internal options for CF.

TB-Upton

Boston-Ellsbury

Toronto-Wells/Rios

Twins-Gomez/Span

Cleveland-Sizemore

White Sox-?

LAA-Hunter/Matthews

Phillies-Victorino

Mets-Beltran

Flordia-Maybin/Ross

Cubs-?

Houston-Bourn

Cards-Ankiel/Rasmus

LAD-Kemp/Andruw/Pierre

Arizona-Young/Upton

 

Either those teams have a better player than Cameron in CF, have a cheaper/younger player who was recently a top prospect, or are slashing payroll. Unless Melvin wants to deal with the Cubs or the White Sox move a bit more salary I just think the list of suitors for Cameron are limited to the Yankees.

[bklynbrewcrew]

The Brewers will be substantially worse if they make this trade. If they can get a nice return for Cameron thats fine but taking a 5th outfielder and an overpaid scrub pitcher in return makes no sense. Worst case scenario is the Brewers keep Cameron for one more season and have a top flight CF. To just give him away for scraps makes no sense in any way.

[Weirdos19]

A closer is #1 on the list IMO. If we have to spend 10 mil, so be it. I would rather have a RH closer, with the Cubs mainly a right handed team.

 

If we have to trade Cameron, so be it.