2007 Vent Thread, Part 2

[Ennder]

At first I said I'd have gone with Cordero too but he has pitched 3 of the past 4 days and averaged over 20 pitches per outing so I don't think its the end of the world not using him.

 

I think I'd personally have gone with Turnbow for the 9th against the middle of the order, Spurling in the 10th against the bottom of the order and Cordero in the 11th against the top of the order assuming the game stayed tied.

[Mr QL]

Ned blew this one. Turnbow? Cordero? Even Gallardo? Nope, we get our resident bum reliever Spurling go up against the heart of the Twins order. Don't give me the "he's been solid" crap since he's solid in the same way Shouse is who I actually like. No way I would want to see him in when we actually have a chance of winning.

 

We definitely should of scored more in the 9th. Thanks Graffy and Hart for striking out when it counts. Atleast put it in play man. Left a ton on base today. Suppan showing that he's the biggest FA bust ever for us.

 

No such thing as a moral victory. A loss is a loss.

[chuckcrim]

I think Suppan should have been pulled after giving up 5. Yost should take a page from Gardenhire's book. As soon as Slowey started getting hit hard, Gardenhire yanked him. Suppan was getting hit hard the entire game, and Ned sticks with him. He conceded the loss by keeping Soup in there to give up 9 freakin' runs.

 

Graffy is awful. Why can't we hit with RISP?

Hart better stay at the leadoff spot. I hate Ned.

[JohnBriggs12]

Spurling vs. Morneau. Not a chance.

 

Situation called for Shouse vs. Morneau, then Turnbow or Turnbow to start the inning. Twins had basically used up Nathan. All they had left was Neshek and he threw 25 pitches last night. Get through the 9th and the odds favor the Brewers.

 

Of course, it might have been moot if he pulls Suppan after the 4th inning.

 

It's games like that make me think Ned is not well equipped enough to take a team to a championship.

[mikerollins]

The way I saw it....Spurling was the only option.

 

If you pitch tbow in the 9th and coco in the 10th you would have had to pitch Shouse in the 11th and then forfeit the 12th.

 

Those who say pitch villy....he just pitched 3 days ago for 5 innings.

 

The guy who said pitch turnbow in the 9th and Spurling in the 10th....they made a new rule this week....if you pitch the 8th you can't sit the 9th out and pitch the 10th.

 

Some days its just not meant to be. Ned managed a fine game. this one was on suppan.

[wisconsinfan47]

I think Suppan should have been pulled after giving up 5. Yost should take a page from Gardenhire's book.

 

Gardenhire didn't have as much of a bullpen dilemna as the Brewers did. If Suppan gets yanked early, Gallardo may have to come in, which ruins his start for Monday. On the other hand, if Yo doesn't pitch today, but the rest of the bullpen picks up 6 innings of slack, we have no one in the 'pen if Yo gets shelled on Monday. We needed Soup to go as long as possible to make the next few days a little easier on the pitching staff.

 

If this was the 7th game of the World Series, I agree with you: Yank Soup earlier, but Yost has other games than today to consider.

[Ennder]

Quote:

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The guy who said pitch turnbow in the 9th and Spurling in the 10th....they made a new rule this week....if you pitch the 8th you can't sit the 9th out and pitch the 10th.

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lol, sorry about that. I'm at work and missed the 8th, didn't realize Spurling had already thrown an inning, heh.

 

I don't think you can blame this loss on Yost, but I'm not sure I'd have used the bullpen the same way he did either.

[IslandsAC]

Great game, I'm just mostly upset that Suppan didn't receive a decision for the first time this season.

[Fike85]

Quote:

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If this was the 7th game of the World Series, I agree with you: Yank Soup earlier, but Yost has other games than today to consider.

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That's exactly right.

 

The game was "lost" in the top of the 9th when the Brewers only got one run with the bases loaded and no out. As much as that stings, the fact remains that Joe Nathan is very nasty. Thoughout his career he's averaged a strikeout an inning, which makes him a likely candidate to get out of such a jam.

[mikerollins]

Haha. no worries. I was just having some fun with ya buddy.

[DougJones43]

I've got no problems about how Yost handled the pitching today. It's almost exactly what I would have done. You can't really assume we were going to come back from down 5-7 runs, so getting the most of Suppan made sense at the time. Using Capellan and Spurling also made sense. I want Gallardo pitching tomorrow, and sending Suppan out in the 5th didn't seem like a bad idea at the time because it looked like he was starting to get things under control the inning before. Maybe Yost could have pulled Spurling for the bottom of the 9th, but if we brought in Turnbow for the 9th, and the game remained tied for a couple more innings after that, we would have had nobody left to pitch.

 

My vent is that Spurling is still on the team. We have to find a way to upgrade from him. It's not Yost's fault that's who's available though.

[brettac1]

My vent is that Spurling is still on the team.

 

I think after Capuano comes back, that will change.

 

All in all, no big deal today. If it wasn't Nathan in the 9th, I probably would be a little upset that they didn't tack on more runs, but it's pretty miraculous to score on him to begin with.

[DougJones43]

I think after Capuano comes back, that will change.

 

I hope so. I hope Gallardo stays in the rotation, Vargas gets moved to the bullpen, and Spurling is sent back to AAA.

[Brian the Automator]

[ I hope Gallardo stays in the rotation, Vargas gets moved to the bullpen, and Spurling is sent back to AAA. ]

 

Do you have any concern that Gallardo's arm will fall off if he's in the rotation through September and perhaps even October?

 

I'd like to see Gallardo sent to the pen, limiting his innings a bit. Vargas will be in the pen by default, as the 5th starter's going to be skipped a bit.

[brettac1]

I don't know about that happening, though, I would still say that most likely Vargas stays in the rotation and Gallardo moves to the pen. I think they're going to be extra cautious with him, and the only way he makes it into the rotation is if he forces it by being extremely dominant in the bullpen.

[wallus]

This really shouldn't be called the "Official Vent Thread" rather it should be called the "Official Whine and Second Guess Thread after a Brewers Loss". It's only venting if you do it occassionally, not every loss.

[saget]

Quote:

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My vent is that Spurling is still on the team. We have to find a way to upgrade from him. It's not Yost's fault that's who's available though.

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Spurling has a 3.74ERA this year. He's been pretty solid.

[DougJones43]

Do you have any concern that Gallardo's arm will fall off if he's in the rotation through September and perhaps even October? I'd like to see Gallardo sent to the pen, limiting his innings a bit.

 

Fair enough. I haven't really looked into his IP this year, or the past couple years. If you and Brett feel his innings still need to be limited, I'll take your word for it. But he needs to get stretched out to where he can pitch about 200 inning/year at some point, right?

[BrewCrewRising]

Quote:

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This really shouldn't be called the "Official Vent Thread" rather it should be called the "Official Whine and Second Guess Thread after a Brewers Loss". It's only venting if you do it occassionally, not every loss.

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If it bothers you so much, then don't read it. Venting by its nature is an emotional, visceral response to something. I personally don't come to the vent thread unless I just need to 1) air my frustration or 2) find commiseration for said frustration.

 

You know what kind of posts you're going to find here based on what has happened in the game. So if it bothers you, then don't read it.

[Brian the Automator]

[ Fair enough. I haven't really looked into his IP this year, or the past couple years. If you and Brett feel his innings still need to be limited, I'll take your word for it. But he needs to get stretched out to where he can pitch about 200 inning/year at some point, right? ]

 

I think adding 20 innings a year is a reasonable request... I think by the end of the year next year, he should be in full form.

[DougJones43]

Spurling has a 3.74ERA this year. He's been pretty solid.

 

Last year his ERA was over 5. And his ERA won't stay as low as it has been this year for much longer if he maintains his 1.62 WHIP. I just don't think he's a very good pitcher.

[Ennder]

He hasn't been bad this year, his K rate is over 6, his BB/9 under 3, he's getting a lot of ground balls. He's given up too many hits but its mostly just been a product of BABIP.

 

He's not going to be a great RP, he's a 4 ERA guy out of the bullpen which means he shouldn't see any high leverage situations, unfortunately the Capuano injury kind of messed up the bullpen.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Quote:

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Gardenhire didn't have as much of a bullpen dilemna as the Brewers did. If Suppan gets yanked early, Gallardo may have to come in, which ruins his start for Monday. On the other hand, if Yo doesn't pitch today, but the rest of the bullpen picks up 6 innings of slack, we have no one in the 'pen if Yo gets shelled on Monday. We needed Soup to go as long as possible to make the next few days a little easier on the pitching staff.

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And if Gallardo goes seven innings tomorrow night, Yost looks pretty stupid. Normal for him, but still worth noting.

 

That was ridiculous. It was obvious that our new Jeffery Hammonds didn't have it when he let a free swinger like Torii Hunter off the hook in the first. Then he got raked over the coals by Lew Ford. Before Ford could burn him again, he should have been yanked. Most of the eight balls to Mauer and Cuddyer to start the inning weren't even close, and then he grooved one for Ford, who's a really nice guy (fans love him there) but a generally awful hitter.

 

I don't buy the "We have to save the 'pen for tomorrow" line, because you never know when your starter is going to get either shelled or hurt. By that philosophy, you should never go to the bullpen before the sixth inning unless you have two or three guys capable of pitching long stretches.

 

To keep this short, two things are burning at me after another Yost job:

 

1. Suppan was left in at least two batters too long.

2. We have a gentleman in the bullpen whose sole job is to get left-handed hitters out. I'm not going to deny that I'm not a Brian Shouse fan, but that's what we pay him to do.

 

He sat there while Chris Freaking Spurling pitched to one of the most dangerous left-handed hitters in the game. You can't even use the availability line, because it was pointed out during the broadcast Saturday that Shouse was available if needed. What were we saving him for? Mauer/Cuddyer/Morneau in the 12th inning?

 

EDIT: You want positivity in the Vent Thread? Here...This team has great character. They truly are a bunch of battlers, and I couldn't be happier with the way they bounced back into that game after their starting pitcher and idiot manager combined to dig a seven-run hole. That was a superb effort, and my hat is tipped to the offense. In respect to the idea of not quitting and always scrapping, I think this team has taken on some of the good things about the manager's personality.

[DuWayne Steurer]

2. We have a gentleman in the bullpen whose sole job is to get left-handed hitters out. I'm not going to deny that I'm not a Brian Shouse fan, but that's what we pay him to do.

 

He sat there while Chris Freaking Spurling pitched to one of the most dangerous left-handed hitters in the game.

 

 

I know we're not supposed to quote big bits, and then say "I agree", but...........

 

When the inning started, the very first thing out of my mouth was "Why is Spurling being allowed to pitch to the lefthanded AL MVP?" (Ask my wife, that's exactly what I said)

 

Spurling stinks on ice. He's got a decent ERA, but his WHIP is atrocious, and his BA against is well over .300. Over time, I expect his WHIP and OPS against to start making that ERA look less attractive. Hopefully when Capuano comes back, Melvin will decide that there's 6-7 better options in our bullpen than Spurling.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Quote:

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Hopefully when Capuano comes back, Melvin will decide that there's 6-7 better options in our bullpen than Spurling

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I'm betting that Spurling stays and Gwynn goes. We have a glut of outfielders, and Gwynn has one more at-bat in the last week than I do. They'll send him down and use the "Well, he has to play..." excuse. Personally, I wish we would have given him a shot as a DH instead of finding more playing time for Miller and Gross*.

 

(I'll avoid ranting about Graffanino because he's generally been hitting pretty well lately, and my disdain for him is more about how useless he was for the first two months or so.)