Packers 2022 Discussion Thread

[CheezWizHed]

But that is only a short-term bandaid.  I think we only activate 3 ILBs for gameday, so we can deal with 3 ILBs on the roster (or perhaps a PS promo?).  But how long can we handle an 11 man OL on a 53 man roster?

I'm just fearing that activating that Bahk or Jenkings from the PUP is going to be a bad decision... Just felt really early based on the very minimal team activities they were doing. 

[LouisEly]

Neither Bakh nor Jenkins are on the PUP.  They were activated from it a couple of weeks ago.

Barnes is on IR per the Packers website.

[CheezWizHed]

52 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Neither Bakh nor Jenkins are on the PUP.  They were activated from it a couple of weeks ago.

Barnes is on IR per the Packers website.

Yes.  But they were.  I'm saying they probably activated them too soon. 

[HarveysWBs]

So after thinking about the opener for a while, I’m not 100% sure I’m still as confident in classifying this as a blip as I was during the game.  I stated at the time that considering the state of the pass catchers’ learning curve and the o-line health, this month should be a go-1and2-and-move-on situation.  Well, that leaves Chicago and Tampa.  I’m not feeling going to Florida and winning a game against anybody, much less the Buccs. If our secondary brain farted that much against Cousins (who, admittedly, doesn’t get enough credit in the turnover avoidance area), I’m not sure what depths of failure we’re in for against a guy who has quite literally seen it all in Tom Brady.  But we can beat Chicago one-handed, right? I’m not sure right now.

Now, I think the R-E-L-A-X position is still perfectly defensible.  And if I was forced to bet on what I still think the most likely outcome is, it’d be a comfortable win in a focused, bounce-back performance next week.  But my confidence wavers a little, and here’s why:

I’m sure Joe Barry’s scheme works. I’m starting to wonder if Joe Barry works calling that scheme.  Either that, or maybe he’s not as confident in his players as we all are. It’s really not a good look that Jaire said after the game that he wanted to take on Jefferson the whole game, but the staff insisted on staying true to schematic design and not giving anyone a single player to cover, damn the torpedoes.  And sure, the color commentator (Greg Olsen?) tried to defend that decision as if the rest of the defenders would be unduly burdened by trying to figure out their assignments on a play by play basis. But…corners have shadowed receivers before. It’s not unprecedented.  If Stokes and Douglas can’t figure out assignments, are they as good as we think they are? And if Barry can’t take away the one player everyone in the whole world knows the Vikings are going to feed, is he any better than Pettine?  I’m a little worried there.

And speaking of the reputations of coaches, I’m suddenly way more worried about supposed offensive line guru Stenavich.  It’s now two straight games (the 49ers loss still infuriates me) where we have run out an absolutely bewildering o-line personnel group.  Newman is a liability, but you can at least say he’s got real game reps at the NFL level, so I can stomach him under the circumstances (if he’s starting in a month, we’ve got problems).  But I just do not see any way Hanson makes a lick of sense.  I heard today that Hanson had never played guard in a game at any level (high school, college, or pros) before Sunday.  And meanwhile, Tom is on the bench to start the game.  I’m usually ready to give coaches a huge pass on personnel, because I’m a total amateur and I don’t see these guys in practice or meetings or anything beyond game day.  But Hanson was outmatched  (and, subjectively, it annoyed the heck out of me that it was Z Smith destroying him).

These things need to get fixed ASAP (and getting healthy can’t be counted on—I’ll believe Bakh and/or Jenkins plays this month when I see it), or we’re more than capable of losing to Chicago.

[UpandIn]

18 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

that makes sense...didn't know Runyan was dealing with that

Yup...and then Zach Tom came into the game and played REALLY well. 

Packers develop OL as well as anyone...and while they struggled this past week(badly) that was to be expected with backup OTs in there vs two premiere edge rushers(Hunter was on course to be an All Pro type edge with his freakish athletic ability before injuries the past couple years). 

What's baffling to me is how the Packers seem unwilling to start the OL who is so clearly one of the 5 best. Tom, especially when Bahk and Jenkins are out, is definitely in that group.

Again, reminds me of when they started Lane Taylor over Elgton Jenkins. 

I've liked Caleb Jones and with the ability to bring up 4 players each week without using a 53 man roster spot, I like bringing Jones up. Let Tom focus on playing inside. 

And lets get Jake Hanson the hell out of that starting lineup. He was BRUTAL in week 1. Davlin Tomlinson is nice, but he's not Vita Vea. What is HE going to do to Jake Hanson? I blindly went along with the "well, they must know better," but now that we've seen him play...it seems clear there wasn't much to see. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

13 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

Yup...and then Zach Tom came into the game and played REALLY well. 

Packers develop OL as well as anyone...and while they struggled this past week(badly) that was to be expected with backup OTs in there vs two premiere edge rushers(Hunter was on course to be an All Pro type edge with his freakish athletic ability before injuries the past couple years). 

What's baffling to me is how the Packers seem unwilling to start the OL who is so clearly one of the 5 best. Tom, especially when Bahk and Jenkins are out, is definitely in that group.

Again, reminds me of when they started Lane Taylor over Elgton Jenkins. 

I've liked Caleb Jones and with the ability to bring up 4 players each week without using a 53 man roster spot, I like bringing Jones up. Let Tom focus on playing inside. 

And lets get Jake Hanson the hell out of that starting lineup. He was BRUTAL in week 1. Davlin Tomlinson is nice, but he's not Vita Vea. What is HE going to do to Jake Hanson? I blindly went along with the "well, they must know better," but now that we've seen him play...it seems clear there wasn't much to see. 

All true. Zach Tom looks like the type of guy who is going to start in the NFL across multiple O-Line positions for the next decade+. There's no use delaying the inevitable. He's one of their top 5. I'd argue that even once Jenkins and Bahk are back, he should be pushing for playing time. 

[UpandIn]

Just now, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

All true. Zach Tom looks like the type of guy who is going to start in the NFL across multiple O-Line positions for the next decade+. There's no use delaying the inevitable. He's one of their top 5. I'd argue that even once Jenkins and Bahk are back, he should be pushing for playing time. 

It really seems obvious from MY(our) perspective. It also seemed obvious Jake Hanson was NOT one of the top 5(arguably, top 10). But I can only see the plays where they kinda zero in on the players. I've stopped watching All-22 for a couple years now because...I'm just busier and...well, it doesn't matter what I think. 

But yeah, I think you could make a very strong argument he's been the best Packers OL to play this year for the Packers. Myers has been really solid. Yosh still isn't taking that next step. He's average(which is very valuable and not a slight, particularly when he's a backup). Royce Newman I think will get better....I really can't offer much of an opinion on him. 

I did try to watch Hanson during the game and man...just rag dolled. Tomlinson, with Za'Darius rushing over him. 

Good for Za'Darius...he's taking an imagined slight and played well. 

Quick side note on him, he took 1 year and about 9 Million dollars to play for the Vikings. So that bug crawled WAAAY up there. I can pretty much guarantee the Packers would have offered more and we know the Ravens did(not just in total money, but in guaranteed money). A ~3.5M cap hit...there is virtually no way the Packers don't give him that same deal. No risk, they can get out of it next year, they can keep him for a still relatively cheap cap hit. 

 

He REALLY wanted to play against the Packers. I'll feel so-so much better when he's facing Bahktiari and Jenkins rather than Yosh, Newman and then kicking inside and just bulldozing Hanson. 

[UpandIn]

12 hours ago, HarveysWBs said:

So after thinking about the opener for a while, I’m not 100% sure I’m still as confident in classifying this as a blip as I was during the game.  I stated at the time that considering the state of the pass catchers’ learning curve and the o-line health, this month should be a go-1and2-and-move-on situation.  Well, that leaves Chicago and Tampa.  I’m not feeling going to Florida and winning a game against anybody, much less the Buccs. If our secondary brain farted that much against Cousins (who, admittedly, doesn’t get enough credit in the turnover avoidance area), I’m not sure what depths of failure we’re in for against a guy who has quite literally seen it all in Tom Brady.  But we can beat Chicago one-handed, right? I’m not sure right now.

I am in a survivor pool with 40 people, 25 buy-in...(I won it last year when the last 10-12 people took NY teams earlier in the season and the both won games they should not have won...not a pool where actually knowing FB helps you at all). Anyway...I might seriously take the Buccs as my "survivor" vs the Packers in that game. I think it'll be the 1st game we see Bahk and Jenkins, but the Packers do NOT play well in Florida humidity early in the year. Jax, Miami, TB, they struggle. Saints last year in a neutral game...it's always ugly. 

As for the Bears, they look like they've got a good defense, and they're returning a edge with 18.5 sacks, but I don't actually think he's a premiere pass rusher. 
They have a terrible OL. Quay Walker's availability is going to be a big issue with Fields ability to extend plays, but Gary, Smith, Clark and the rest of the front should have a big day. 

13 hours ago, HarveysWBs said:

 

I’m sure Joe Barry’s scheme works. I’m starting to wonder if Joe Barry works calling that scheme.  Either that, or maybe he’s not as confident in his players as we all are. It’s really not a good look that Jaire said after the game that he wanted to take on Jefferson the whole game, but the staff insisted on staying true to schematic design and not giving anyone a single player to cover, damn the torpedoes.  And sure, the color commentator (Greg Olsen?) tried to defend that decision as if the rest of the defenders would be unduly burdened by trying to figure out their assignments on a play by play basis. But…corners have shadowed receivers before. It’s not unprecedented.  If Stokes and Douglas can’t figure out assignments, are they as good as we think they are? And if Barry can’t take away the one player everyone in the whole world knows the Vikings are going to feed, is he any better than Pettine?  I’m a little worried there.

The same thing happened last year. This is why I wanted Jim Leonhard as our DC. He likes to play a lot of cover 2 man...he mixes it up a little bit, with SOME cover 3, some single high where he'll bring a guy down in the box, but a cover 3 shell where you're using Quay and Campbell to get deep drops just gives the offense FAR too many easy throws. 

I still think Barry will be fine, but last year it took LaFleur calling him out and telling him he wanted them to play more "sticky." Meaning...don't give them 10 yard cushions. Don't sit back in zone. You have TWO outside CBs who EXCEL in press man and you've invested the largest contract in NFL history and a 1st round pick in them. Douglas isn't great in man coverage, but he's physical and should be trying to route his man toward the LBers in the hook zone.

What you CANNOT do is allow the Vikings to run those deep crossing routes, hope to get home with 4 pass rushers(with one almost always being Enagbare or Gavin as they seemed to try and stagger Gary/Smith's reps) and then pass Jefferson off to Savage on those deeper routes. 

I'm confident they'll get that figured out.

 

13 hours ago, HarveysWBs said:

And speaking of the reputations of coaches, I’m suddenly way more worried about supposed offensive line guru Stenavich.  It’s now two straight games (the 49ers loss still infuriates me) where we have run out an absolutely bewildering o-line personnel group.  Newman is a liability, but you can at least say he’s got real game reps at the NFL level, so I can stomach him under the circumstances (if he’s starting in a month, we’ve got problems).  But I just do not see any way Hanson makes a lick of sense.  I heard today that Hanson had never played guard in a game at any level (high school, college, or pros) before Sunday.  And meanwhile, Tom is on the bench to start the game.  I’m usually ready to give coaches a huge pass on personnel, because I’m a total amateur and I don’t see these guys in practice or meetings or anything beyond game day.  But Hanson was outmatched  (and, subjectively, it annoyed the heck out of me that it was Z Smith destroying him).

Baffling. And as I will with David Stearns and company, I give the Packers coaching staff the benefit of the doubt...they know far more than us. 

But are they maybe a bit too rigid? I never thought Billy Turner was a good OL and Dennis Kelly was a journeyman. So that combo made no sense last year. Yosh earned that start over Kelly and Turner wasn't good as a RG...he was somehow a bit better at RT, but not great. He was never even close to average at LT. 

This year the right side...Hanson and Newman? Seemed like Newman and Tom at RG/RT made SO much more sense, but...I digress. 

I really think Hanson is our 11th best OL at the moment. Obviously it's not that simple as Caleb Jones isn't playing Center, but we have(or had) depth at C. And we'll have it again. I'm not wishing for the season ending injury that paved the way for Jenkins to start 14+ games as a rookie, just the common sense. 

 

13 hours ago, HarveysWBs said:

These things need to get fixed ASAP (and getting healthy can’t be counted on—I’ll believe Bakh and/or Jenkins plays this month when I see it), or we’re more than capable of losing to Chicago.

I am still completely confident the Packers get Bahk and Jenkins back. If the Packers weren't the ONE team in the NFL that didn't use Torodol(Which if you know what it is, it's not a numbing agent, it's not a pain killer, it's like an anti-inflammatory on steroids that just makes you feel...night and day different. But I'm sure if they needed them or if this was later in the season, they'd play both. 

Quote

The Packers are proceeding with an "abundance of caution," with regard to their OTs given their importance to their long term success, they want them to be completely healthy when they do play, so they're probably looking at a week 3 start."

That's from Rappaport. So...they're participating in team activities, they're out there, Bahk says he feels healthy and he feels normal. Jenkins was frustrated he wasn't allowed to play. But 2-1 starts have no gotten us to the SB the last couple years. 

Losing those two players however, it can EASILY be argued they cost us at LEAST one trip to the Super Bowl and possibly two. 

Aaron Rodgers was pressured on nearly 40% of his drop backs vs Tampa in what was a 5 point loss. Bahk takes Shaq Barrett or JPP out of that game(at least mostly) and now you can help out Billy Turner with Lewis or a RB or whatever. But Rodgers knows where the pass rush is coming.

Last year, the 49ers got onto a run where they pressured the Cowboys and Rams more than any other team had that year and Rodgers was pressured on ~38% of HIS drop backs.

That causes a QB to stop dropping his eyes, looking at the pass rush and that's how Allan Lazard running wide open happens. 

 

So I'm more concerned with how those two are playing later in the year and that they're fully healthy. Bahk is a Packer through next season ALMOST no matter what. Jenkins one would presume would be extended.

Again, Bahk/Runyan/Myers/Tom/Jenins, that's as good as it gets in the NFL. So I both understand the desire to get them back ASAP. You get them back, the pressure on the WRers drops exponentially as they have more time to uncover, Rodgers isn't getting rocked, the running game has more room to get going and...the trickle down impact on the offense is immeasurable. 

 

The other side to that argument...you're putting your franchise QB and you're real hope at winning a SB at risk by NOT putting out your best OL. So I'll be better the under again. I'll be expecting a 24-13 type game vs the Bears and hopefully they can keep Rodgers upright, get the quick passing game doing and...for the love of GOD, no more drops on walk in TDs. 

Though just for perspective, Julio, Calvin, Chase, Adams, TO, Cris Carter(arguably the best hands in NFL history)...they all struggled with drops. Some of them figured it out quicker than others, but if Christian Watson makes that catch and the Packers score on 1st and Goal from the 1, this game could easily have gone the other way. 

Of course that brings up an entirely different issue with me. Why Rodgers INSISTS on running plays out of shotgun on 4th and 6 inches is baffling. We know MLF prefers to go under Center there, give the back a 7 yard start and let him pick his hole, but when you come out in that inside zone, the defense invariably KNOWS where you're going to run that ball...if you do in fact run the ball. And on that play, you ran it behind Jake Hanson and Davlin Tomlinson absolutely ate him up. 

 

 

I guess you just chalk it up as Packers in Week 1, you look at how much better they were this year than last year and look at the 3 key starters who are getting healthy and coming back in Bahk/Jenkins and Lazard and console yourself in that and the fact that this team SHOULD look much better in 2 months.

 

 

So...that's mostly the good news. 'It shouldn't be that bad next time.'

And then there is the fact that Quay's should injury wasn't that serious(he was the 2nd most impressive defensive player IMO behind Clark)
Nixon also avoided a seriously injury. For a team going with 4 CBs on game day, that's good news.
Barnes-Went from an obvious season ending injury to a high ankle sprain and likely going to IR, but not out for the year.
Runyan-Concussion...normally a week to 2 weeks, but that's a more serious injury that I think they should always take extra time with.

 

I still feel good about 12 wins and this team playing it's best FB at the end of the season. 

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Quay had some lapses in coverage assignments early, but he jumped off the TV with how explosive he was with that size for a MLB.  Once he settles in he's a difference-maker in the middle of the field.

[HarveysWBs]

1 hour ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Quay had some lapses in coverage assignments early, but he jumped off the TV with how explosive he was with that size for a MLB.  Once he settles in he's a difference-maker in the middle of the field.

Big time. I am really geeked about Walker.  I figured the brass had to know something with the resources they spent on him, and early returns seem to be rewarding that faith.

BUT, I was this excited about Savage once upon a time, too, and now he looks like a weak link, so we’ll see.

[UpandIn]

16 hours ago, HarveysWBs said:

Big time. I am really geeked about Walker.  I figured the brass had to know something with the resources they spent on him, and early returns seem to be rewarding that faith.

BUT, I was this excited about Savage once upon a time, too, and now he looks like a weak link, so we’ll see.

Walker DEFINITELY looks the part. There was that feeling as a Packers fan early in the NFCCG a couple years ago. We ran a little outside toss play to Aaron Jones, and Devin White just FLEW to the ball, didn't get caught in the wash and he blew Jones up.

That set the tone for the day. Quay had a couple of hits like that. I don't actually know(more like remember) the lapses in coverage, but that's going to take the longest time to come around. His pass rush really started to look good as the game wore on. I know he's cleared(or expected to be) for the Bears game, but I hope that shoulder isn't going to be something that lingers all year long. He excels by getting those long arms and those hands on the OL, shedding and pursuing. It works pretty well coming off the edge and it works well...just playing FB. Hopefully it was just a stinger.

 

As for Savage, he didn't play well, but on that one deep crossing patter where Jefferson was running wide open and Savage was the closest to him(well, one of the times) MLF came out and said they were in cover 4 and it was Amos who didn't get a deep enough drop.

On another one when they were OBVIOUSLY in man and Savage got burned...well, that's just a failure in schme. Also, Jefferson is SO good and so smart, he ran that route a little more shallow than I'd guess it was initially designed for in order to get the natural rub, Savage had to avoid his own guy and...another big play. 

 

To be clear, I'm not disagreeing that there was a whole lot of reason to be excited about Savage in 2020(or even as a rookie) and then he regressed last year...just pointing out that I don't think he played any worse than Stokes, Douglas, Amos...really any DB not named Jaire. 

 

Joe Barry may wanna study some of Saban's cover 3 match schemes and how he tweaks them. It's gonna leave some big holes in the defense if you're playing a zone scheme and then matching up Jaire in man, but they're going to be slowly developing routes and it sure beats letting Jefferson run loose all game long when you have JAIRE ALEXANDER. 

For now, we should all take Bill Belichick's advice(if you ignore it's not Bellichick and we're not playing Cincinnati!

 

[adambr2]

Seeing Bahk move around in practice the other day. ..I really think I'm getting on board with the "he is done" crowd. I'm not saying he'll never play another down, but it doesn't look like he'll ever be the same and may be effectively done. I don't think it's overblown. 

I hope I'm wrong. 

[UpandIn]

On 9/16/2022 at 5:35 PM, adambr2 said:

Seeing Bahk move around in practice the other day. ..I really think I'm getting on board with the "he is done" crowd. I'm not saying he'll never play another down, but it doesn't look like he'll ever be the same and may be effectively done. I don't think it's overblown. 

I hope I'm wrong. 

What practice did you see him moving around in?

I saw him at the end of camp and he looked like he was moving around just fine...and their rationale made perfect sense. That he'd had three surgeries in 20 months and...he had to rebuild the atrophied muscles back up. I understand the trepidation, but when he says his knee feels normal for the first time since the injury, when he, MLF, and Gutekunst all say they have absolutely no concerns about his long term health...and when we find out it wasn't his decision, but the Packers decision(not just with him, but with Jenkins as well) to hold them out and bring them back slowly, 

There is a lot of strength and conditioning that goes into coming back after that long of a layoff(though...again, even there I'd point to the Lions game when he was still not right and he was the David Bahktiari we've been accustomed to)...I think he'll be back playing at an AP caliber level. 

I think it's just as simple as being overly cautious at this point given the complications they've dealt with moreso than Bahk's knee being wrecked. 

 

That said, going forward, they should probably re-think their position on Toradol with some players. It's a miracle drug that it seems seems like very other team in the NFL is using but the Packers. 

 

I'll guess he makes his debut vs Tampa Bay and is good to go after that...with a limited practice schedule. But we'll see. I thought he was coming back last year as well and the Packers are very secretive about most of these things(which is why I put stock into what they say when they're so adamant about his long- term prognosis).

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

On 9/16/2022 at 5:35 PM, adambr2 said:

Seeing Bahk move around in practice the other day. ..I really think I'm getting on board with the "he is done" crowd. I'm not saying he'll never play another down, but it doesn't look like he'll ever be the same and may be effectively done. I don't think it's overblown. 

I hope I'm wrong. 

I'm going to take his coach's word over a grainy 20-second Zapruder style video of one practice that only showed Bahk slightly limping on his non-surgically repaired leg. I think it's likely that his muscles are sore from finally practicing hard last week for the first time in forever. 

[adambr2]

3 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I'm going to take his coach's word over a grainy 20-second Zapruder style video of one practice that only showed Bahk slightly limping on his non-surgically repaired leg. I think it's likely that his muscles are sore from finally practicing hard last week for the first time in forever. 

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2022/09/latest-on-packers-lt-david-bakhtiari#ref=home

They have already ruled out having him practice full weeks at any point in this season regardless of the healing status of his ACL.

There's absolutely no way that they have full confidence in the long-term stability of that knee. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

5 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2022/09/latest-on-packers-lt-david-bakhtiari#ref=home

They have already ruled out having him practice full weeks at any point in this season regardless of the healing status of his ACL.

There's absolutely no way that they have full confidence in the long-term stability of that knee. 

Maybe it's the eternal optimist in me, but I think it's likely he plays this weekend against Tampa. Once he works into full game shape, I expect him to be fine. Perhaps the knee will be an issue through the rest of his career, but the guy has an All-Pro pedigree, and getting him back, even at a somewhat reduced capacity, would still hold a lot of value. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Really glad seeing Jenkins back in the lineup at RT last night - he was rusty on some pass blocking sets and gave up a few pressures, particularly early on...but seemed to settle in as the night wore on and also was his usual dominant self run blocking.  Him and Lewis paired together on the right side with Lazard run blocking is pretty fun to watch.

Different players and different (sort of) injuries, but for those keeping score at home Jenkins returned to NFL game action without being on a snap or rep count roughly 10 months after his ACL injury, while Bakhtiari is now at 21 months and counting that included 16 solid months of NFL offseasons that could be dedicated to rehab and/or rest focused on getting back onto the field.  I'm pulling for Bakhtiari making it all the way back and this being an afterthought in a couple months, but I'm going to be concerned he's a pumpkin until he actually suits up for a couple consecutive games and plays at a solid level all the way through them, while getting through whatever his practice schedule is supposed to be between those games without showing up as questionable/doubtful on the injury reports.  Part of being a great OL is availability, and it sucks he got injured - but frankly he's not worth a longterm roster spot if all he can provide is part time all-pro protection mixed in with rep management and missed starts/early game exits.

 

[CheezWizHed]

4 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Maybe it's the eternal optimist in me, but I think it's likely he plays this weekend against Tampa. Once he works into full game shape, I expect him to be fine. Perhaps the knee will be an issue through the rest of his career, but the guy has an All-Pro pedigree, and getting him back, even at a somewhat reduced capacity, would still hold a lot of value. 

Maybe it is the pessimist in me... well actually more of realist based on repeated actions... but when the goalposts keep moving it makes you wonder and be concerned about what is going on.  I expressed concerns when he wasn't ready for TC, but people (not saying RRB - I don't remember who said it) here said he'd be fine because the coaches said so in press conferences.  Then more concern when they activated him from the PUP and then took part in zero team activities. 

Yes, he had more going on than normal for an ACL tear, but that is part of the concern... Nothing seems to have a half-predictive timeline.  And coaches are always going to tell you the sky is blue. 

If they really wanted him to go slow, having him stay on the PUP - out 4 games - and then activating him would've made more sense.  If he is doing team drills now, I guess he is a few weeks ahead of that schedule, but just being out of football this long starts to get a bit concerning for reflexes, strength, reactions, etc...

[UpandIn]

8 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I'm going to take his coach's word over a grainy 20-second Zapruder style video of one practice that only showed Bahk slightly limping on his non-surgically repaired leg. I think it's likely that his muscles are sore from finally practicing hard last week for the first time in forever. 

I think the problem is two fold here.

1-We've been...mis-lead or at least they haven't come out and told us all the details from the start. He's had two further surgeries, so we went from hoping for a Jenkins like return, to this starting and stopping.

2-"Structurally healthy," and "Finally feels normal," doesn't mean "pain free," or back to 100% or that he's not still going to deal with scar tissue and just the soreness that a knee that's had reconstructive surgery and then two more surgeries comes with. 

I don't think it's "coach speak," saying you think he's fine, I don't think they're hiding anything. I don't think they'd have taken him off PUP. I think they're going to make damn sure he's all the way back this time before they put him on the field as I'd be willing to bet that game in Detroit last year set him back quite a bit and is the reason he's not playing or hasn't played yet. 

 

I'm still confident he'll come back and he'll come back and an elite level, be the same Bahktiari and I don't think the fact that he's going to practice twice a week and take a 3rd day off has anything to do with...anything other than the guy is coming back from an injury that has seen him play 27 snaps since Dec 2020 and the leading cause of injury...is fatigue. 

 

What did Collinsworth say about speaking to Bahktiari last night? Sounded like he was paraphrasing but he said something like, "it's been 20 months, 3 surgeries, forgive me(him?) for wanting to take a few more weeks to make sure it's fully healed."

 

But it's also been 20 months, 3 surgeries and two missed playoffs, so while Bahk may want some understanding from the fans, he should probably understand those fans just want to see their AP LT, or at least get a clearer picture of his health and MOST people questioning him aren't doing so because they think he's soft or he's taking the money and he's not motivated(though I've seen some). 

 

[GAME05]

Isn't there a limit this year to how many players a team can put on short-term IR? Maybe having depth and Jenkins coming back they're better off just leaving him on the roster to heal up. Plus leaving him on the roster means he can participate in practice at whatever level he's at rather than sitting out completely.

 

[UpandIn]

1 hour ago, CheezWizHed said:

If they really wanted him to go slow, having him stay on the PUP - out 4 games - and then activating him would've made more sense.  If he is doing team drills now, I guess he is a few weeks ahead of that schedule, but just being out of football this long starts to get a bit concerning for reflexes, strength, reactions, etc...

It would have from a roster building standpoint...not from a standpoint of getting him back on his time line.

Having him get out on the field, able to practice, going through team activities, those reps are big in getting back, getting his knee back. 

The one thing that just genuinely makes me believe he'll be all the way back is how he played(albeit in 30 snaps) vs Detroit last year and that was with his knee still injured and it was better than Jenkins performance last night. 

 

[UpandIn]

8 minutes ago, GAME05 said:

Isn't there a limit this year to how many players a team can put on short-term IR? Maybe having depth and Jenkins coming back they're better off just leaving him on the roster to heal up. Plus leaving him on the roster means he can participate in practice at whatever level he's at rather than sitting out completely.

 

I don't THINK so...but I can't find a clear answer. I know there's a certain number of players who can come back from IR(8 IIRC)...but I don't know that you have to declare which 8 those will be. In fact, I'm about 80% sure you don't have to, otherwise it'd be easier to find in the CBA. Just says you can return 8 players from IR and one player a maximum of two times. 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I don't believe there has been any surprise with Bahktiari since he began practicing. I think they knew both he and Jenkins were close and wouldn't need short-term IR. I think Tampa has always been the target for David. We'll find out this week. If he misses this game then we can probably conclude there was a recent setback. Because I don't think they waste the roster spot and forego 4 week IR because they're targeting one game against the Patriots in week 4. Planning to have him for Tampa at the latest is the only thing that makes sense with regard to having him on the initial 53.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

15 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

I don't believe there has been any surprise with Bahktiari since he began practicing. I think they knew both he and Jenkins were close and wouldn't need short-term IR. I think Tampa has always been the target for David. We'll find out this week. If he misses this game then we can probably conclude there was a recent setback. Because I don't think they waste the roster spot and forego 4 week IR because they're targeting one game against the Patriots in week 4. Planning to have him for Tampa at the latest is the only thing that makes sense with regard to having him on the initial 53.

Bingo. I think they've been targeting Week 3 since training camp. Sitting Week 1 on that terrible turf in Minnesota made a lot of sense. I think they looked at Week 2 against a poor team with a new coach and saw one more week where the urgency didn't outweigh the caution. But now, up against an elite defense and pass rush, in a road game against another legit Super Bowl contender? It's go time. If he sits once again Week 3, it's concerning (and I hate using the word "concerning". The NFL is entertainment. This isn't family members getting sick or something)

[UpandIn]

48 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

I don't believe there has been any surprise with Bahktiari since he began practicing. I think they knew both he and Jenkins were close and wouldn't need short-term IR. I think Tampa has always been the target for David. We'll find out this week. If he misses this game then we can probably conclude there was a recent setback. Because I don't think they waste the roster spot and forego 4 week IR because they're targeting one game against the Patriots in week 4. Planning to have him for Tampa at the latest is the only thing that makes sense with regard to having him on the initial 53.

It was kinda the week that always made sense. All that coach speak or front office speak, in the same press conference that Gutekunst said he had zero concerns about Bahktiari's long term health, he was asked if he'd start week one and stated he was "cautiously optimistic."

"Zero long term concerns," and "cautiously optimistic," are pretty different. One is saying they have no doubt he'll be back, the 2nd is more they hope it'll be by a certain date.