Packers 2022 Discussion Thread

[homer]

26 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

*Rodgers uses the word 'we'*

You know I am really tired of him calling everyone out but himself.

LOLz ok

[Fear The Chorizo]

Did I miss something where stating 'we' doesn't include the person making the statement in the group they are referring to?

Rodgers has stated that he needs to "raise my game", " I've got to play better", etc  throughout this season and this stretch of 4 L's in a row...saying he's not taking some responsibility for the lack of production on offense publicly is wrong.  Unless people want the player who's going to be in front of a microphone far more than anyone else on this roster to say the same exact thing every single time after a loss, whatever Rodgers says is going to be viewed negatively by some.

Rodgers hasn't played well this season, no question about it - but with the exception of Aaron Jones, I don't think anyone on the offensive side of the ball has played well consistently, particularly across the Oline - if that unit doesn't improve to become at least somewhat reliable, Rodgers doesn't have enough time to drop back and see if any of his inexperienced receivers are actually getting open.

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, MrTPlush said:

*Rodgers uses the word 'we'*

You know I am really tired of him calling everyone out but himself.

Who is he answerable to? Certainly not the 4th year head coach, and certainly not the GM and Team President who bent over backwards crushing their cap situation and trading for Rodgers' washed up friends just to make him happy. The Packers are reaping what they sowed with Rodgers and his attitude. The media doesn't help either by baiting him because nothing get clicks and eyeballs like controversy.

The '22 Packers have had some bad luck this year on offense. They have trotted out a different combination of offensive lineman for every game this year. Due to injuries they've started 8 different players on the OL: Bakhtiari, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Nijman, Jenkins, Hanson, Tom. Their two best offensive lineman are both coming off reconstructive knee surgeries and together have missed 5 of the 8 games this year. More probably true than not, the struggles of the offensive line are largely responsible for the short comings of the offense. 

Contrary to the media, I think they will be fine at WR. But for Cobb  all the Packers receivers have above average speed for the position (4.4 or better). Plus, I don't think the scheme suddenly got stale in the off season. It's the protection or lack thereof leading to a lot of contested catches, etc.  

All receivers are going to have drops. The fact of the matter is Romeo Doubs is having a fine rookie season. He has caught 61.2% of passes targeted to him. That is better than Adams as a rookie (57.6%), as well as Jordy Nelson  (61.1%), James Jones (58.8%) and MVS (52.1%) as rookies. Doubs' numbers are actually similar to Drake London yet London was taken 124 spots ahead of Doubs. If anything there have been a lot of expectations heaped on Doubs despite being a 4th round pick from Nevada.

Who knows what to make of Amari Rodgers? He was a force in college while playing against the best in the SEC. He's a disaster as a returner but has done well on offense with the Packers when he gets the ball in his hands which hasn't been very often for whatever reason. 

The receiving corps has also been busted up with injuries. Christian Watson essentially missed most of camp and now 4 games of the season, Sammy Watkins missed 4, Lazard has missed at least 1, and Cobb missing at a minimum four games. The injuries further stress the young receivers having to not only learn their route trees,  but also having to shift into different roles (X, Z etc.) with different routes. 

I don't blame the Packers for not adding a wide receiver yesterday via trade. Depending how you look at it, they've spent two 2nds, a 3rd, 4th and 7th on wide receivers in the last two drafts and none of them have yet to play enough to truly know what they have.

 

 

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, MrTPlush said:

*Rodgers uses the word 'we'*

You know I am really tired of him calling everyone out but himself.

Maybe he feels himself royalty and by using "we", he is only referring to himself. ??

[CheezWizHed]

Frankly, I'm not sure what to make of this situation... Rodgers hasn't played great, but it isn't like he slipped greatly either. The last couple games he actually played pretty well - and I'm glad to see him move around more instead of stand in the pocket.

Gute is hamstrung by the cap (Rodgers being a huge problem), but he hasn't really drafted well either.  

MLF looked great the first couple years, but the team looks very unprepared this year.  Individual players that looked great in the past look pedestrian this year. Barry has a good defense, but it feels like he should be getting so much more out of them. 

I'm about 50/50 if I feel that they should trade Rodgers and reboot the whole system or try again next year. 

[MrTPlush]

Are people really attacking Doubs as a problem? I don't think that is the complete truth. I think people are putting the blame on the people that are in charge that created the mess that requires him to be the #2 WR. Is he fine as a rookie, sure, but that isn't very good in the grand scheme. 

The WR group is Lazard, ancient Watkins, useless Rodgers, and then three rookies. The front office simply neglected the WR core over the years. These guys needed to be drafted 2-3 years ago. It certainly doesn't help the one time they decided to use a 3rd rounder on a WR he has done nothing in his second year. Whether or not that is Amari Rodgers just being that bad or the coaching staff not making a gameplan to utilize his skillset, I don't know. 

A lot of this is thanks to wasteful picking in the 2020 draft. Love has been and is still completely useless to helping win games, the 3rd round pick was used to grab a TE (spent a 4th the year prior on a TE too), and the 4th rounder was gone to get the useless guy in the first round. Right about now if when you would expect those guys to definitely be established starters. 

Obviously the WR issue is only part of the issue. They have definitely put effort into drafting the OL...and that hasn't exactly panned out great this year. 

[HarryDoyle]

 

[UpandIn]

13 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Frankly, I'm not sure what to make of this situation... Rodgers hasn't played great, but it isn't like he slipped greatly either. The last couple games he actually played pretty well - and I'm glad to see him move around more instead of stand in the pocket.

Gute is hamstrung by the cap (Rodgers being a huge problem), but he hasn't really drafted well either.  

MLF looked great the first couple years, but the team looks very unprepared this year.  Individual players that looked great in the past look pedestrian this year. Barry has a good defense, but it feels like he should be getting so much more out of them. 

I'm about 50/50 if I feel that they should trade Rodgers and reboot the whole system or try again next year. 

Rodgers is gonna retire if they trade him(obviously my opinion). 

If-IF Rodgers comes back, it'll be because he went through this year, the growing pains.

I'd object to the idea that Gutey hasn't drafted well. I think he has...mostly. A large part of it is incomplete. I think this class is going to be his best(though Rhyan looks like a bust already). Walker and Wyatt are both freak athletes who make make plays 99% of MLBers and IDL just can't. But they're raw. Walker in particular is going to be a stud in a couple years. 

Watson has all kinda of issues right now, but I still love his long term...prognosis. Maybe he never stays on the field, maybe this is just a fluke start where he has CMIII type issues with the Hammy, but he is about as electric as it gets in an...insanely small sample size.

Mainly I think this team is deep, I think it's talented but you have foundational flaws. 

-OL
Maybe you can win with a shite OL if you've got a young QB like Watson, Mahomes, Herbert, Wilson...not with a 38 year old stationary one.

Bakh-GREAT when he plays. Took Von out of the game. Is he playing next week? Was the missed game vs the *** a fluke or new normal? Will he just get stronger or are we at the bone on bone point where that injury shaved 4-5 years off his career?
Tom could be a great replacement...but he's just not strong enough yet. 
Jenkins-The backbone of this line after Bakh went down. Someone we said was a top 10-15 OL. Unlike Bakh, he has not been good since he's been healthy and last week, he wasn't able to play again.

It's just like groundhogs day as this is half the problem with this team. It has a trickle down effect. Get them on the same page and healthy and the whole and you can stay ahead of the sticks. Lots of 2nd and 3's, give Rodgers time for his WRers to uncover, fewer penalties. 

Then the defense isn't on the field for 35 of 50 minutes after the first 10 minutes where they just sit back in coverage and hope a gimpy Gary, Preston and then Clark and whoever is the 2nd DT can get a pass rush. 

-WR
Self explanatory....but still. 
-Cobb is smart(even looked explosive after the catch). 
-Watkins looks washed. No burst.
-Rodgers can't be the PR, but he should get a shot.
-Doubs-He looks promising
-Watson-Developmental but maybe he can be a deep threat, gadget guy. Rodgers said him going down fundamentally changed their game plan as he figured in heavily. 
-Toure I think he MIGHT just be that slippery WRer we need, but he won't be this year. 

I like the idea of Doubs, Watson, Lazard, Tonyan, Toure and....MAYBE Rodgers moving forward, but they haven't gotten in sync yet.

-Joe Barry
He's uninspired, if we blitz, you know where it's coming from. Quay Walker from the LB position. You don't overload the side opposite of Gary and then drop to try and create a mis-match, you don't bring Jaire off the slot. I know what defense they're running pre-snap 70% of time,,,so you're not fooling an NFL QB. 

 

This is still the best roster I've seen 1-53 in a while, but the holes are too important and big right now. 

It's like those Charger teams that were always loaded with talent, but were 12-4 on year and 8-8 the next. You need talent at the right spots AND good coordinators. 

 

Also...who are we trading Rodgers to at this point? SF? I'd actually do that for Lance, but I doubt they'd do it at this point. At BEST you get 2 years.

This actually feels like the team Favre said was the most talented toward the end of his career, the one that as they matured, they ended up winning a SB. But just too many question marks at BIG areas.

I 

[UpandIn]

14 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Contrary to the media, I think they will be fine at WR. But for Cobb  all the Packers receivers have above average speed for the position (4.4 or better). Plus, I don't think the scheme suddenly got stale in the off season. It's the protection or lack thereof leading to a lot of contested catches, etc.  

All receivers are going to have drops. The fact of the matter is Romeo Doubs is having a fine rookie season. He has caught 61.2% of passes targeted to him. That is better than Adams as a rookie (57.6%), as well as Jordy Nelson  (61.1%), James Jones (58.8%) and MVS (52.1%) as rookies. Doubs' numbers are actually similar to Drake London yet London was taken 124 spots ahead of Doubs. If anything there have been a lot of expectations heaped on Doubs despite being a 4th round pick from Nevada.

Who knows what to make of Amari Rodgers? He was a force in college while playing against the best in the SEC. He's a disaster as a returner but has done well on offense with the Packers when he gets the ball in his hands which hasn't been very often for whatever reason. 

The receiving corps has also been busted up with injuries. Christian Watson essentially missed most of camp and now 4 games of the season, Sammy Watkins missed 4, Lazard has missed at least 1, and Cobb missing at a minimum four games. The injuries further stress the young receivers having to not only learn their route trees,  but also having to shift into different roles (X, Z etc.) with different routes. 

I don't blame the Packers for not adding a wide receiver yesterday via trade. Depending how you look at it, they've spent two 2nds, a 3rd, 4th and 7th on wide receivers in the last two drafts and none of them have yet to play enough to truly know what they have.

I agree with most of what you said...but the Packers WRers are not all 4.4 or better. 
Lazard is clearly not.
Watkins looks even slower at this point than Lazard. 
Doubs has good enough speed, but he's not a 4.4 guy. 
Amari Rodgers was a 4.52

Watson runs a 4.4 and Toure runs a 4.43 and those are the only two who are legit 4.4 guys. 

They did offer a 2nd for Claypool, it just wasn't as good as the Bears 2nd. They gave in, gave up their own and...got Claypool. Just like with Mack, the Bears sucking allowed them to get the player they were targeting. 

 

Also, Amari played in the ACC, but your point is still taken. He's looked good in very limited snaps. 

I really like this group as I said, it's just a year away most likely...or at least a Jerry Jeudy or DJ Moore would have been HUGE for them. 

 

The good news, Rodgers isn't going to retire on an 9-8 team that loses in the WC round(IMO, maybe he will). And we should see a LOT of big improvements.

And the Cap is going to go up a LOT in the next few years, so that should mitigate some of the hand wringing being in "cap hell."

Also, if Jim Leonhard doesn't get the UW job, he should be the GBP DC. his pressures are far more exotic and he plays to the strengths of this defense. 

 

Finally, I think the talent is still there to go on a run, they just need guys to get healthy, stay healthy and build some continuity. 

[CheezWizHed]

10 hours ago, UpandIn said:

I'd object to the idea that Gutey hasn't drafted well. I think he has...mostly. A large part of it is incomplete. I think this class is going to be his best(though Rhyan looks like a bust already). Walker and Wyatt are both freak athletes who make make plays 99% of MLBers and IDL just can't. But they're raw. Walker in particular is going to be a stud in a couple years. 

Watson has all kinda of issues right now, but I still love his long term...prognosis. Maybe he never stays on the field, maybe this is just a fluke start where he has CMIII type issues with the Hammy, but he is about as electric as it gets in an...insanely small sample size.

2022 draft is certainly on the TBD list before inclusion to this list, but it certainly has a boom or bust feel to it.  Athletes are great, but many teams have proven that athletes that aren't football players don't make good teams.  And Gute is showing a history of doing this already (giving me a little bit of 1980s Al Davis vibes) and busting on "athletes" without instincts.

2018: Basically, you get an A on Jaire.  MVS was a nice find in the 5th round, but not a big impact guy.  EQS another good find as a 6th rounder, but is a 4th WR at best. Big misses on Josh Jackson, Owen Burkes, JK Scott (punter!), J'mon Moore, Cole Madison. 

2019: Irony here is that the pundants loved Savage and hated Gary picks.  But obviously that was backward here. Jenkins was also a great draft move here.  Kdar Hollman also a nice find in the 6th, but still topping as a poor nickel/dime CB.  Misses were Sternberger, Keke, and increasingly looking like Savage...

2020: The infamous "Love" draft saga... Still hard to know what Love will be, but the draft effect on Rodgers was obvious. He needed a kick in the pants and got it.  However, hard to tell if Love is going to be a player or not.  Certainly improved this past year.  I'll call him TBD for now. 

Dillon and Runyan are the only clear "hits" here.  They rank as average NFL players are their positions, but not stars.  Hanson is a good find for a backup C, but his play isn't NFL average. In the 6th round, he is a depth find.  Deguara is a bust at this point.  Another 3rd round TE that doesn't contribute much.  Kamal Martin was interesting... Looked decent (young, raw, athletic), but was a mysterious cut in his second year.  So a bust for us.

This draft also burnt a lot of draft capitol to move up to get Love and Deguara - neither of whom is actively contributing to our offense.  Deguara is out there, but not doing much when on the field.

2021: Stokes and Myers look like the big contributors here.  Both have some upside and are currently contributing to "average" level starters. Slaton and SJC are contributing more this year.  Hill has shown well in small samples.  Rodgers and Newman are trending downwards.  Hard to say total busts as they performed well enough to get on the field, but certainly have been going backwards. 

So I look at this this way:

• At or near Pro Bowler: Gary, Jenkins, Alexander
• Starter Level: Myers, Stokes, Dillon, Runyan, Savage(trending down though), MVS (a starting WR is a little nebulous at #3 level)
• Four drafts that average a little more than 2 starters per draft (being kind to Savage and MVS as starters).  That doesn't seem very good to me.  

Frankly, I think Gute has done much better in "small name" Free Agency (Lewis, Douglas, Campbell, Reed, Davis, Ford, Nixon, O'Donnell) than drafting.  

Gute's drafting rep is certainly boom or bust.  He has some big hits, but a lot of misses also.

[UpandIn]

10 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

2022 draft is certainly on the TBD list before inclusion to this list, but it certainly has a boom or bust feel to it.  Athletes are great, but many teams have proven that athletes that aren't football players don't make good teams.  And Gute is showing a history of doing this already (giving me a little bit of 1980s Al Davis vibes) and busting on "athletes" without instincts.

2018: Basically, you get an A on Jaire.  MVS was a nice find in the 5th round, but not a big impact guy.  EQS another good find as a 6th rounder, but is a 4th WR at best. Big misses on Josh Jackson, Owen Burkes, JK Scott (punter!), J'mon Moore, Cole Madison. 

2019: Irony here is that the pundants loved Savage and hated Gary picks.  But obviously that was backward here. Jenkins was also a great draft move here.  Kdar Hollman also a nice find in the 6th, but still topping as a poor nickel/dime CB.  Misses were Sternberger, Keke, and increasingly looking like Savage...

2020: The infamous "Love" draft saga... Still hard to know what Love will be, but the draft effect on Rodgers was obvious. He needed a kick in the pants and got it.  However, hard to tell if Love is going to be a player or not.  Certainly improved this past year.  I'll call him TBD for now. 

Dillon and Runyan are the only clear "hits" here.  They rank as average NFL players are their positions, but not stars.  Hanson is a good find for a backup C, but his play isn't NFL average. In the 6th round, he is a depth find.  Deguara is a bust at this point.  Another 3rd round TE that doesn't contribute much.  Kamal Martin was interesting... Looked decent (young, raw, athletic), but was a mysterious cut in his second year.  So a bust for us.

This draft also burnt a lot of draft capitol to move up to get Love and Deguara - neither of whom is actively contributing to our offense.  Deguara is out there, but not doing much when on the field.

2021: Stokes and Myers look like the big contributors here.  Both have some upside and are currently contributing to "average" level starters. Slaton and SJC are contributing more this year.  Hill has shown well in small samples.  Rodgers and Newman are trending downwards.  Hard to say total busts as they performed well enough to get on the field, but certainly have been going backwards. 

So I look at this this way:

• At or near Pro Bowler: Gary, Jenkins, Alexander
• Starter Level: Myers, Stokes, Dillon, Runyan, Savage(trending down though), MVS (a starting WR is a little nebulous at #3 level)
• Four drafts that average a little more than 2 starters per draft (being kind to Savage and MVS as starters).  That doesn't seem very good to me.  

Frankly, I think Gute has done much better in "small name" Free Agency (Lewis, Douglas, Campbell, Reed, Davis, Ford, Nixon, O'Donnell) than drafting.  

Gute's drafting rep is certainly boom or bust.  He has some big hits, but a lot of misses also.

I think this is a little prisoner of the moment view.

They really didn't burn a lot of draft capital on Love and Degurara. They moved a 4th round pick to move up for Love. That's been questioned to death, but...I think because he ended up in GB, it gets kinda mixed with the Aaron Rodgers reaction. Deguara is a nice player though. Lost a year of development to a torn ACL and I think he should be incorporated into the passing game more, but they need to use him to stay in and block too much when he is out there. 

2018-You get a cornerstone CB...that was your biggest need. Josh Jackson did become a bust...one of the times Gutey went away from RAS because it was seen as such a great value. He was mocked to the Packers in the 1st round. 
3-Burks He obviously wasn't a hit, but he became one of the few STs standouts.
Moore was terrible, but MVS was a huge hit in the 5th and I think EQ would have had more success elsewhere. He's actually looked really good in Chicago. Probably a guy we should have brought back with his run blocking and speed. 

JK Scott looked good for stretches(game winning punts as Rodgers put it)...but he always seemed to peter out. 

2019-This was a...great draft IMO.
Gary-Another cornerstone player at a key position
Jenkins-Right now he looks like an average OL, but he was an instant starter and pro-bowler early on. 
Savage was good as a rookie, really good his 2nd year and he has not been nearly as good since then. That's on Joe Barry IMO. Savage was supposed to play in more of a press man scheme, not in this quarters scheme where he's asked to come up and play the run. Still, he's gotten worse. I don't know how to grade that. He drafted a guy who started off well, then looked like a budding star...and now looks like a weakness. This was supposed to be a bounce back year. But, again, I put that on the scheme AND Savage. I think he'll end up elsewhere and be a Micah Hyde type player like he was supposed to be in GB. 
Sternberger looked terrible. 
Keke looked like a steal in the 5th round, but...has anyone figured out what happened? After a bit of a surprising cut, he was then cut from the Texans without playing...and it's obviously not due to talent. 

Then you got some contributions from 6th-7th round picks. 

2020- Love-It'll take a while to figure out what we got there. I'll put that as a negative just because of all the ripple effects it caused. 
AJ Dillon-Another guy who's gotten worse this year, but who was one of the top rated RBs overall per PFF last year. 
Deguara-As I said, I like him, but he's been through the ACL and then the OL issues which force him to stay in and help when he does get on the field. 
Runyan though, that's a home run, a 6th round pick as a starter?

Garvin is a contributor. 

2021-Stokes- Again, I think we're talking about scheme not fitting the players. He was the top rated corner in press man coverage last year...he played exceptional last year. This year he's having a Soph slump, but is that because of him or because of the scheme?

-Myers I love this pick, but they need stability around him. You see how dominant he can be at times, but he is inconsistent. Missing most of last year hurt. 

-Amari Rodgers-I don't know what's going on here. When we draft WRers, they should come with an *. He looked just bad last year. This year he's still not consistent enough by a long shot as a PRer, but he looks much-much quicker and more explosive. I just don't think Rodgers(Aaron) likes or trusts him. 

-Newman -I don't agree he's trending down. He's a 4th round pick who's not a good starter early into his 2nd year, but...who's been more valuable that's been available? He was the 36th pick in the 4th round, so expectations come into play. 

-TJ Slaton in the 5th was a big steal. 

-Jean-Charles I can't really evaluate at this point.
-Van Lannen didn't make the team, but we recouped the pick. 
-McDuffie another incomplete, but he's definitely taken a huge step this year. 
-Kylin Hill-I think he's got a chance to be the steal of this draft. I think he's got a very real chance to step in and take over for Aaron Jones next year IF he can come back at full strength. 

I think the whole team has been out of whack this year. I think Mark Murphy's meddling has been troublesome. Talking LaFleur into keeping Pettine, low balling Rizzi, I think he was a big factor behind the Joe Barry hire(actually, I don't know that, that's just been reported by some sites). Basically, he's been too involved in Football decisions when traditionally, there has been a CLEAR separation of duties. GM has final say over the Football operations, President over the Business side. He changed that structure a few years ago and it's very clearly hurt us. 

 

Another thing to factor on the number of hits that Gutey has had is that he stockpiles and trades back in the 6th and 7th rounds and we end up with a LOT of picks there. When you get a starter in the 5th round or later, one who's an average starter, that's a great pick. If you cut a guy...oh well. Especially when you seem to have 5-6 a year. 

Defensively, he's drafted athletes who are better in man coverage and rushing the passer and then we hire a GM who wants to sit back and play zone. There's a disconnect there. I love the Badgers, but I'd almost be fine if the Badgers were to hire someone other than Leonhard and the Packers offer him the job again! The Packers have the personnel to run that scheme and the Badgers do NOT. Of course that's not going to happen, but they need a change at DC. Barry was just a bad hire.

Last year MLF had to push him to be more aggressive, and we saw the defense improve, but...this year again...same ****. And we're not confusing ANYONE as I said in a prior post. Remember when the Vikings used to bring up Barr and Kendricks and mug the A Gaps? They did that because...they had ATHLETIC and LONG LBers who could get back into the hook zone if they didn't come and the OL had to account for them creating 1 on 1 matchup's across the board. 

Tell me Jaire, Stokes(again, the #1 press man corner last year as a rookie per PFF) and Douglas(not great in man, but good enough) and Nixon(who's at the very least a sure tackler and keeps LBers and backs in front of him) doesn't fit that scheme? Throw in Amos, the #1 rated Safety in pass coverage from 2018-2021 again, per PFF and Savage...who was a CB...and it's obvious what we should be doing.

 

I'd also disagree that we've only averaged 2 starters per draft. We got 12 in his first 4 drafts and some pretty good depth pieces...plus guys like Dillon who'd normally be a starter(And effectively is) and then good depth pieces later in the draft...and I also think you need to be cognizant of the UDFAs. We've cut some draft picks in favor of UDFAs. 

 

Just like with MLF, I think the worst time to evaluate Gutekunst right now is when they've lost more games in a ROW than they'd lost in a single season the last 3 years. 

 

And it's WAAY too premature to judge the 2022 draft, but I feel pretty confident at this point that Quay Walker is going to be an enormous difference maker. Even better in the right scheme. I think Wyatt needs more snaps now as we're just not getting any penetration on the DL(Clark is once again coming off a great start and then goes into a lull in the middle of the year and then turns it back up the last couple months). But Wyatt has looked really impressive...they've just been really limited reps...but when he beats a guy, he beats them BADLY. 

-Watson is the definition of boom or bust. He is just a different type of athlete on the field. Now he needs to stay on the field and that needs to translate. 
-Rhyan-Again, premature, but he looks like another less than encouraging 3rd round pick. Great in a power scheme, terrible at picking up stunts and just isn't aware enough to play despite being far more physically ready than Zach Tom.

-Tom looks like he could be a future star, but needs to add weight.
-Doubs looks like a hit.
-Enagbare-He looks like a HUGE steal at the end of the 5th round. 
-Carpenter- Getting Oren Burks vibes from him. I don't know he'll have a role as in this base defense, but a nice special teamer.
-Ford -I thought Heflin and Slayton looked better.
-Toure -Rodgers is signing his praises...and I think that means something. He's got that slippery route running style that we desperately need.
-Rasheed Walker Massive upside. Could be our starting RT for a decade...could eat himself out of the league. Absolutely no idea. 
-Caleb Jones is pretty much in the Walker group as an UDFA. I still haven't heard why he's been on the NFI list and I'm skeptical you can trust him to stay in shape, but I think if he were healthy...he'd be playing right now(at least when Bakh went out and Yosh kicked over to RT). 

 

I think a year ago at this time we were mostly praising Gutekunst's draft(save for the Love pick when we passed on Tee Higgins)...maybe giving him a bit too much credit and now at this point, with a disjointed team and expectations so high, I think we're being a little rough on him. 

At the end of the day though...whatever the problem is, if it IS the drafts or the coaching, they need to figure it out real quick. They've put a ton of resources into this secondary and our safeties have come out and played poorly to start the year. 
Our CBs(Stokes in particular) has been bad to the point where he was actually benched. 
Quay Walker and DeVondre Campbell are in the same spots virtually every play(what happened to Walker lining up as an edge at times and rushing the passer? His ability to do that was supposed to be part of the reason we spent the 22nd pick on him). Rookie LBers tend to struggle if they're thinking too much instead of playing downhill. They need to get him on more run blitzes, coming off the corner, hell, he can even play slot. 

The pass rush is among the best in the NFL at creating pressure. 

The secondary, the strength of the team...what was supposed to be the best in the NFL heading into this season has NOT been good. 

 

Make the move now, give Grey the DC job and at least try to salvage the season. 

[UpandIn]

That was just...too long of a post. 

The Packers have all the talent they need. They just need to get it healthy, they need their coaches to put them in the right situations and they need to play complimentary football. Play to their players strengths. 

That means when you have a rookie who was #1 in press man coverage just a year ago, you put him in press more often. Hell, here's a novel idea, you can play press and NOT play man. This crazy idea of...confusing defenses. 
Quay Walker is basically what Isiah Simmons was supposed to be coming out of College in terms of his athletic ability. Faster 3 cone than Jaire Alexander. So put him in the slot, preferably outside of Gary at times...and then send him so Gary has a more advantageous matchup and you can drop him. Make the Offense guess.

 

On offense, Aaron Jones : Give this man the damn ball. Get the offensive line healthy and hopefully the WRers and this team still has a chance. Also, don't use Jones and Dillon interchangeably. They're not interchangeable. We wanted them to be. Kylin Hill is closer to Aaron Jones. Hopefully he's healthy and he can take some of the reps so you don't wear Jones out, but Dillon needs to be used on come power schemes, not outside zone plays. It's not where he has success. 

And someone light a fire under their asses. I still think the talent is there, the creative play calling is stifled with the pourus OL, but maybe you take a note from NE and you play Caleb Jones or Rasheed Walker as a 6th OL at times if/when Lazard/Doubs and Watson can get on the field. Make the defense come up with a 5 man front and play 8 in the box and create some one on one matchup's for Watson or Doubs? Just...do something different than what you've been doing. 

[MrTPlush]

[homer]

Sounds like Jenkins and Bakhtiari are both practicing today.

[UpandIn]

4 hours ago, homer said:

Sounds like Jenkins and Bakhtiari are both practicing today.

Normally that'd be very comforting. This year it seems like that means very little with regard to those two. Both times they didn't play this year they'd been practicing and teammates had expected them to play up until the last minute. 

Hopefully they're getting healthy and stronger because any hope we have kinda starters with those two staying on the field. Bakh has been the best LT in the league the last 3 weeks when playing(grade wise, missing a whole game doesn't help). 

Jenkins...well, he's not been very good...but maybe as he settles back in at guard he will be. 

[homer]

 

[GAME05]

Packers' upcoming winnable games are Tennessee, @Bears, Rams, Lions.

The Falcons picked 8th last year with a 7-10 record. Looking at a mock draft there's a big-bodied WR projected right around there, but the next-best WR fell to the low-20s.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think the Packers will finish 5-12. I don't know who they'll beat but I think they have a lot of losing left to do.

The one thing I want out of this season is for Mike McCarthy to become the first coach to win Super Bowls with two teams. Would be absolutely perfect.

[MrTPlush]

I think their first pick this year needs to be a QB, WR, or maybe a OL.

QB - if they feel like it is the next great thing.

or OL/WR - Regardless of who is under center we need serious help at WR and could use OL help. If we end up going with Love we will never know how good he is with a zero experience QB throwing to this trash heap…and the OL would do no favors.

Rodgers isn’t playing amazing, but I don’t think any QB in the league would be doing much better with the coaches, WRs, and OL we have. It is a wreck.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

4 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

I think their first pick this year needs to be a QB, WR, or maybe a OL.

QB - if they feel like it is the next great thing.

or OL/WR - Regardless of who is under center we need serious help at WR and could use OL help. If we end up going with Love we will never know how good he is with a zero experience QB throwing to this trash heap…and the OL would do no favors.

Rodgers isn’t playing amazing, but I don’t think any QB in the league would be doing much better with the coaches, WRs, and OL we have. It is a wreck.

Agree and I think Rodgers would be just fine playing on a decent offense. I'm not saying he's playing well but the whole thing is just a dumpster fire right now, I don't think it matters who they have playing QB. He knows they stink. 

It just hasn't been going their way and it got too out of hand too fast. As a fan I hope Rodgers get one more season here. It would really stink if they went out like this. Reminds me a bit of the 05 team and everyone convinced Favre was retiring then.  

[DuWayne Steurer]

1 hour ago, GAME05 said:

Packers' upcoming winnable games are Tennessee, @Bears, Rams, Lions.

The Falcons picked 8th last year with a 7-10 record. Looking at a mock draft there's a big-bodied WR projected right around there, but the next-best WR fell to the low-20s.

These are all honestly questionable right now, TBH.  

I know you said winnable, and not gimmes, but I don't know if Rams is winnable, and even @ Bears just seems like a 1/4 chance right now.  Oof.

[adambr2]

Remember after the 2020 Packers draft when many of us were like "holy crap that was so bad"

and the most homeristic of Packer fans were like, "now hold on, wait, it was actually good"

 

It was so, so bad. Literally the beginning of the end of the Rodgers era.

[MrTPlush]

31 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Remember after the 2020 Packers draft when many of us were like "holy crap that was so bad"

and the most homeristic of Packer fans were like, "now hold on, wait, it was actually good"

 

It was so, so bad. Literally the beginning of the end of the Rodgers era.

Rounds 1-3 we drafted positions we didn’t need and lost the 4th round pick in the process.

Seemed brutal then and even more brutal now. At least for 2022 terms…maybe Love brings us a Super Bowl in some wild world.

[UpandIn]

3 hours ago, DuWayne Steurer said:

These are all honestly questionable right now, TBH.  

I know you said winnable, and not gimmes, but I don't know if Rams is winnable, and even @ Bears just seems like a 1/4 chance right now.  Oof.

I wouldn't be surprised if this team ends up 9-8...but if I had to bet on it, I'd guess top 10 pick. 

And if I'm picking in the top 10, it's not going to be a WRer just to get a WRer. In the first round it's going to be an impact OT, Edge or if there's some different maker, a Kyle Pitts unique player available, some random player who's too good to pass up. 

If Quentin Johnston is the BPA among a handful of positions, all the better. 

Hell, I might take a QB. Bakhtiari is still a great LT...when he's playing. It's been 2 years. He can't play every possession. Ergo, he can't be a franchise LT. I'll keep him one more year if his knee continues to get stronger since you'll only save 6M. I'd also ask him to take a pay cut next year. Cut his base salary. It's kinda the least he can do given he's played very little since signing a ~94M extension(Thank you again Bill O'Brien). 

I think as bad as this team is right now, they're closer to being competitive than it appears. Let Tom add some weight Watson and Doubs aren't going to be #1 and #2 WRers this year, but could be big contributors next year. Sit Watson the next couple weeks, try and get him back healthy, His talent is...SO obvious, but he is like a china doll right now. 2 concussions...maybe IR and then let him come back and get into a rhythm. Either way, next pat on the head is going to give him another concussion and I'm not being funny. 2 in 2 weeks is scary from a fan perspective. It should scare him and the organization more for his personnel well being.  MAYBE give Rodgers some time off as that thumb is obviously making him less effective(which they won't do) and I guess take a look at Love(though he'd still be playing with the same OL and the same terrible receiving core, so what are we really gonna learn). 

 

Gotta say...I am glad Carolina turned down the 1st for Moore and the Steelers took the Bears 2 for Claypool. 

 

I wish the trade deadline was ONE week later. See if you could dump Savage for a 5th or 6th. Jarran Reed is a nice interior player. Um....Adrian Amos I guess(though I suspect we'll try and re-sign him...we take a big cap hit if we don't sign him before the end of the season with his void years accelerating). 

 

Oh, and don't touch Odell Beckham. Let him go to a team that has a chance. Unless you rip off 4 in a row...that ain't you. 

[UpandIn]

2 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

Rounds 1-3 we drafted positions we didn’t need and lost the 4th round pick in the process.

Seemed brutal then and even more brutal now. At least for 2022 terms…maybe Love brings us a Super Bowl in some wild world.

I don't think it was that we didn't need a RB or a TE. We needed both. 

We didn't need a QB, but as the old saying goes, that's the best time to draft one. 

The problem with this team is NOT the 1st 3 rounds in the 2020 draft. I mean, had they traded up for Jefferson, it could have been a solution, but Tee Higgins or Chase Claypool isn't solving our problems. 

 

Jordan Love....I still have no clue how good he is, but if Rodgers comes back next year(and I think his ego is too big to retire on a 6-11 team) then we'll likely never find out.