Game Thread (7/15/2022): Brewers (Woodruff) at Giants (Wood) - 9:15 PM CDT

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 minutes ago, valpocrewsader said:

Would love to know how that inning might have ended if Tellez hadn't blundered the throw on the pickoff. Had an easy out there to empty the bases with 2 outs. Big momentum swing to allow the SB instead. Hader threw a HBP shortly after that.

Another overlooked aspect. He's been solid defensively too. Then the youngster who might be in a moment a bit too big for him, and he HBP's him. Just a perfect freakin' storm in the ninth.

Would anyone like to blame the fact it was Severino behind the plate?

[Robocaller]

The only thing that is potentially elite about this team is the starting pitching (if they were all healthy and performing to their ability) and the back end of the bullpen (which has sucked recently). 

If we don't have a chance to rectify those things, the team has no chance of succeeding in the playoffs (though they can probably still limp in given the competition).  So this might not be a time to expend trade capital to acquire significant players (not more than a reliever).

 

[Robocaller]

27 minutes ago, CdrbrgMark said:

This is ALL on CC, the POS doesn't have clue what he's doing anymore. I'm twice as sure as I was before that he should be GONE!!

so you're saying he shouldn't have confidence in his closer, who has been dominant for years?

[The stache]

I didn’t see the game, but after Hader gives up that second home run, was Counsell sleeping in the dugout? How the hell is Hader not immediately yanked, and replaced by Suter?

Bedore tonight, Hader had a 13.50 ERA over his last five appearances, giving up 6 earned runs and 2 home runs in 4 innings. 
 

After giving up two home runs, Hader gave up a single and a stolen base, hit a batter, gave up another hit…..loading the bases, and Counsell sat there and did nothing.

GRAND SLAM. GAME OVER!

This is 100% on our manager. Hader should have never pitched to Mike Yastrzemski. NEVER!

The Brewers aren’t good enough to simply give away games like this. 
I

Ir’s time this franchise seriously begins looking for Counsell’s replacement. Tonight’s loss is inexcusable. 

 

[CdrbrgMark]

11 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

so you're saying he shouldn't have confidence in his closer, who has been dominant for years?

Nope, not right now.

[Robocaller]

32 minutes ago, The stache said:

I didn’t see the game, but after Hader gives up that second home run, was Counsell sleeping in the dugout? How the hell is Hader not immediately yanked, and replaced by Suter?

Bedore tonight, Hader had a 13.50 ERA over his last five appearances, giving up 6 earned runs and 2 home runs in 4 innings. 
 

After giving up two home runs, Hader gave up a single and a stolen base, hit a batter, gave up another hit…..loading the bases, and Counsell sat there and did nothing.

GRAND SLAM. GAME OVER!

This is 100% on our manager. Hader should have never pitched to Mike Yastrzemski. NEVER!

The Brewers aren’t good enough to simply give away games like this. 
I

Ir’s time this franchise seriously begins looking for Counsell’s replacement. Tonight’s loss is inexcusable. 

 

maybe because Hader has been one of the top relievers in the game of the past few years and Suter doesn't actually pitch well?

[Robocaller]

25 minutes ago, CdrbrgMark said:

Nope, not right now.

then you don't understand the vagaries of baseball.

[wildcat83]

You don’t fire a manager without a better replacement, who replaces CC if you fire him now?

[Sixtolezcano]

58 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Knebel had the bad stretch in 2018, was sent down for essentially a mental break & came out of it with flying colors. The good news is this is nothing physical. Still serious because of the nature of his role. The break is coming at a good time for him, how he emerges afterward is anyones' guess.

How do we know it is “not something physical”? This might be the most logical explanation.

[The stache]

21 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

then you don't understand the vagaries of baseball.

Oh please, spare us. I’ve been watching and studying the game in detail for 43 years, and I’m pretty sure most on this forum know the nuances of the game well. Don’t condescend, please. 

A few years ago, Christian Yelich was one of the two or three most feared hitters in baseball, en route to winning back to back National League MVPs. Then he hit a ball off his knee, and hasn’t been the same since.

Next you’re going to tell me that Yeli is the guy you’d want at the plate with the game on the line because he used to be hot stuff. 

The past few years matter not at all. Fortunes, and players, can change radically in a short period of time, This is the year 2022, and recent performance is what matters. And recently, for whatever reason, Josh Hader has been an utter dumpster fire. And it’s the manager’s job to see everything, and make prudent decisions. 

Let’s recap Hader’s recent play, shall we?
Before Mike Yastrzemski strode to the plate, going back to July 4th, Hader had thrown 4 1/3 IP. Why only 4 1/3? Because in his last appearance against Minnesota, he came in to a 1-1 tie, and gave up 3 runs in the loss without recording a single out.

But back to the period July 4th to right before he pitched to Yastrzemski.

4 1/3 IP, 11 hits, 3 walks, a hit batter, 4 home runs and 8 earned runs.

That’s an ERA of a 16.74 and a WHIP of 3.255. 
 

Stevie Wonder could have seen the writing on the wall, but our illustrious manager, apparently, could not.

 

Grand slam! Ballgame! 

So, now in his last two times on the mound, Josh Hader has recorded one out, giving up 9 earned runs, and responsible for two losses. 9 earned runs in 1/3 IP, a lovely 270.00 ERA.

But yes, let’s put him out ther again in the next high leverage situation we face in the ninth, because Robocaller says Josh Hader has been elite the last few years. That he has a 25.12 ERA since July 4th…..? Who cares??? 
 

 

 

 

[rondoman]

According to @fangraphs, Josh Hader had a WPA of -0.963 tonight. And by @Stathead, among single-inning pitchers, that's the 19th-worst performance since 1901.

[Robocaller]

1 hour ago, The stache said:

Oh please, spare us. I’ve been watching and studying the game in detail for 43 years, and I’m pretty sure most on this forum know the nuances of the game well. Don’t condescend, please. 

A few years ago, Christian Yelich was one of the two or three most feared hitters in baseball, en route to winning back to back National League MVPs. Then he hit a ball off his knee, and hasn’t been the same since.

Next you’re going to tell me that Yeli is the guy you’d want at the plate with the game on the line because he used to be hot stuff. 

The past few years matter not at all. Fortunes, and players, can change radically in a short period of time, This is the year 2022, and recent performance is what matters. And recently, for whatever reason, Josh Hader has been an utter dumpster fire. And it’s the manager’s job to see everything, and make prudent decisions. 

Let’s recap Hader’s recent play, shall we?
Before Mike Yastrzemski strode to the plate, going back to July 4th, Hader had thrown 4 1/3 IP. Why only 4 1/3? Because in his last appearance against Minnesota, he came in to a 1-1 tie, and gave up 3 runs in the loss without recording a single out.

But back to the period July 4th to right before he pitched to Yastrzemski.

4 1/3 IP, 11 hits, 3 walks, a hit batter, 4 home runs and 8 earned runs.

That’s an ERA of a 16.74 and a WHIP of 3.255. 
 

Stevie Wonder could have seen the writing on the wall, but our illustrious manager, apparently, could not.

 

Grand slam! Ballgame! 

So, now in his last two times on the mound, Josh Hader has recorded one out, giving up 9 earned runs, and responsible for two losses. 9 earned runs in 1/3 IP, a lovely 270.00 ERA.

But yes, let’s put him out ther again in the next high leverage situation we face in the ninth, because Robocaller says Josh Hader has been elite the last few years. That he has a 25.12 ERA since July 4th…..? Who cares??? 
 

Thanks for substantiating my statement!  God Bless.

[BruisedCrew]

Glad I didn’t stay up to watch that. I probably wouldn’t have been able to go to sleep if I had.

I stayed up long enough to see the five runs the Brewers were largely gifted in the fifth and hoped that would be enough. 
 

The reference to Hader’s problems coinciding with his family situation made me think of the episode “The Mighty Casey” from The Twilight Zone. 

[willie key]

Wow

 

they lost that game?

 

the brewers cannot make the playoffs if hader is bad.    I feel confident in saying that.    

[Outlander]

A bad way to wake up in the morning but would have been brutal getting sleep last night if I actually watched live.

[CdrbrgMark]

5 hours ago, The stache said:

Oh please, spare us. I’ve been watching and studying the game in detail for 43 years, and I’m pretty sure most on this forum know the nuances of the game well. Don’t condescend, please. 

A few years ago, Christian Yelich was one of the two or three most feared hitters in baseball, en route to winning back to back National League MVPs. Then he hit a ball off his knee, and hasn’t been the same since.

Next you’re going to tell me that Yeli is the guy you’d want at the plate with the game on the line because he used to be hot stuff. 

The past few years matter not at all. Fortunes, and players, can change radically in a short period of time, This is the year 2022, and recent performance is what matters. And recently, for whatever reason, Josh Hader has been an utter dumpster fire. And it’s the manager’s job to see everything, and make prudent decisions. 

Let’s recap Hader’s recent play, shall we?
Before Mike Yastrzemski strode to the plate, going back to July 4th, Hader had thrown 4 1/3 IP. Why only 4 1/3? Because in his last appearance against Minnesota, he came in to a 1-1 tie, and gave up 3 runs in the loss without recording a single out.

But back to the period July 4th to right before he pitched to Yastrzemski.

4 1/3 IP, 11 hits, 3 walks, a hit batter, 4 home runs and 8 earned runs.

That’s an ERA of a 16.74 and a WHIP of 3.255. 
 

Stevie Wonder could have seen the writing on the wall, but our illustrious manager, apparently, could not.

 

Grand slam! Ballgame! 

So, now in his last two times on the mound, Josh Hader has recorded one out, giving up 9 earned runs, and responsible for two losses. 9 earned runs in 1/3 IP, a lovely 270.00 ERA.

But yes, let’s put him out ther again in the next high leverage situation we face in the ninth, because Robocaller says Josh Hader has been elite the last few years. That he has a 25.12 ERA since July 4th…..? Who cares??? 
 

 

 

 

Excellent rebuttal!!

[BruisedCrew]

I’m trying to get some comfort from the fact that Hader’s worst stretch last year came right before the All Star break. Maybe he just needs a reset. 
 

But, I think it’s safe to say that this bad stretch is the worst and longest of his career. Even a couple of his saves have been shaky. If he can’t return to form the Brewers chances of making the playoffs, much less doing anything in them, take a huge hit. 

[Pugger]

We may have to go with Williams as our closer going forward, which is a good thing.  Williams would be the #1 on any other team..  

[BruisedCrew]

1 hour ago, Pugger said:

We may have to go with Williams as our closer going forward, which is a good thing.  Williams would be the #1 on any other team..  

That can be fine, but the what about getting to the ninth with a lead?

The Brewers formula for success has always been fragile and each piece of that formula is having problems. 
 

Hader’s meltdown is obviously the main story last night, but for all we’re hearing about the lack of depth in the Giants pitching staff, things might have been different if the offense could have done something in the last 4 innings off of a beleaguered bullpen. That same failure cost some wins against the Pirates and Cubs too. 

[dlk9s]

9 hours ago, CdrbrgMark said:

This is ALL on CC, the POS doesn't have clue what he's doing anymore. I'm twice as sure as I was before that he should be GONE!!

You probably need to take a break from baseball for a little while.

[LouisEly]

9 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Something is way off with Hader. Is it the new baby? I hate to say, it but his struggles do coincide pretty closely with that.

I know many a new parent who has not slept well the first couple of months after their first baby.

[Jim French Stepstool]

9 hours ago, Sixtolezcano said:

How do we know it is “not something physical”? This might be the most logical explanation.

We don't I suppose, but the way this organization rolls I find it very difficult to imagine him being able to hide something like that & get away with it. Especially a pitcher.

[Jim French Stepstool]

43 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

I know many a new parent who has not slept well the first couple of months after their first baby.

Like I said last night (this morning?), I think all the stuff he's gone through is hard to dismiss, since it's pretty much coincided with the ineffectiveness. But it CAN go hand in hand with it causing mechanical issues, or a lack of attention to detail. The second HR he gave up last night was on a changeup. A CHANGEUP!!!!! One can complain about that pitch choice if they want, but I find it next to impossible someone was looking for that pitch from Hader w/o it being tipped off. It's his third best pitch, he seldom throws it. I can see him getting a swing-and-miss on it,or missing badly with it. Waiting back & hitting it in the chairs w/o knowing it's coming? Hard to believe.

So I think all the family stuff has caused an issue, but those who bring up mechanical-procedural stuff aren't wrong either. It goes hand-in-hand.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, BruisedCrew said:

That can be fine, but the what about getting to the ninth with a lead?

The Brewers formula for success has always been fragile and each piece of that formula is having problems. 
 

Hader’s meltdown is obviously the main story last night, but for all we’re hearing about the lack of depth in the Giants pitching staff, things might have been different if the offense could have done something in the last 4 innings off of a beleaguered bullpen. That same failure cost some wins against the Pirates and Cubs too. 

Williams is having problems?

Last statement is spot on. As I mentioned after the game, the ABs in the last 3-4 innings were IMO horrible.

[Pugger]

2 hours ago, BruisedCrew said:

That can be fine, but the what about getting to the ninth with a lead?

The Brewers formula for success has always been fragile and each piece of that formula is having problems. 
 

Hader’s meltdown is obviously the main story last night, but for all we’re hearing about the lack of depth in the Giants pitching staff, things might have been different if the offense could have done something in the last 4 innings off of a beleaguered bullpen. That same failure cost some wins against the Pirates and Cubs too. 

You'll get no argument from me.  Our anemic offense has been a major issue for a while now.