Josh Hader Traded to the Padres

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rickh150 said:

AND they bring up others to AAA to play OF and squeeze Ruiz out of ABs. Preferring Suter over Lamet also has no defense. Awful decision making at the deadline.

Well, they have two great moves or desperation moves left if they want.
1. Bringing up Frelick…. I assume that is coming Sept 1. I actually would be surprised if he is not called up sooner. Really, what are they waiting for? Davis plays really good D, but we need a spark on offense. Maybe Frelick can do just that.

2. Playing Hiura, especially against righties, seems like a no brainer. We are losing these close ballgames with Hiura on the bench against a bunch of righties. Visions of letting Roy Hobbs on the bench… Stubborn Counsell….. visions of sitting Aguilar in 2017 that cost us at least a game and the playoffs.
 

Completely agree with bringing up (or not) Ruiz. He's got MLB experience so his clock is already ticking right? Let's see what he's got.

Disagree on Suter though. He's had a replacement level year but he's been a solid pitcher his whole career while constantly being bounced from spot starter and reliever.  Career 2.86 ERA as a reliever btw. I wouldn't just cast him aside.

[StearnsFTW]

3 hours ago, monty57 said:

That's like saying addition doesn't have much meaning because there are more complex mathematical equations. Without addition, you can't do the more complex equations.

Getting a hit is the most fundamental part of baseball. Batting average is very important, as it is the base from which all other statistical data can be formed. It is not all-encompassing, and there are other things that are more inclusive, but that does not mean that batting average isn't important. 

I would say getting on base is far more important.

 

[KeithStone53151]

5 minutes ago, StearnsFTW said:

I would say getting on base is far more important.

 

A hit is more valuable than a walk. A hit gets a guy in from 2nd. A walk puts 2 on for the next guy. Eventually, you have to get a hit. And in the playoffs, the pitching is too good...you're not gonna get anywhere being selective and taking pitches. You better be able to hit your way on or have enough power that you're pitched carefully...and even then, the pitchers aren't going to respect a guy hitting 180.

[monty57]

51 minutes ago, StearnsFTW said:

I would say getting on base is far more important.

 

A hit gets you on base. Batting average is the biggest part of OBP. Walk rate is important, batting average is important. 
 

How do you come up with the “important” stats without the “unimportant” batting average?

[UpandIn]

4 hours ago, monty57 said:

That's like saying addition doesn't have much meaning because there are more complex mathematical equations. Without addition, you can't do the more complex equations.

Getting a hit is the most fundamental part of baseball. Batting average is very important, as it is the base from which all other statistical data can be formed. It is not all-encompassing, and there are other things that are more inclusive, but that does not mean that batting average isn't important. 

When people started talking about sabermetrics and devaluing BA, my impression was the intent was to try and show that just because someone like Rod Carew is hitting .320/.370/.330 he wasn't a better hitter than Joe Morgan hitting .290/.420/.435.

To put things into context. That Batting Average was over-valued. Not that it held no value. Now I see people using it like W/L for a pitcher, a stat that should basically just be thrown out. I think we've maybe swung a bit too far the other way. 

When asked what the single biggest problem with Baseball is right now, Theo Epstein(pretty smart baseball guy) pointed out the 56 year low in Batting Average. 

 

7 hours ago, StearnsFTW said:

And he was excellent in CF for 400 innings, no reason not to play him there.  I can't explain why he wasn't playing CF instead of Judge.  Nagging injury?  Poor analysis? 

Or it's been 3 years and he's just not that good in CF? I'm skeptical the Yankees were just throwing Gallo out in LF/RF despite him being so clearly superior to Judge defensively. Maybe it's just Gallo got bigger(~220 in 2019, ~250 now) and he doesn't cover as much ground out there. 

My problem really isn't with him playing CF so much as I just don't think it's productive to add another all or nothing bat like Gallo to this lineup. I wouldn't have wanted to give up Ethan Small for him or Mendez or a player in that 10-15 range either. 

I understand why you do...generally a good enough OBP and he hits for power, but when you've already got a lineup that's full of players hitting in the low .200s, I'd prefer someone who can actually make a little more contact. 

[UpandIn]

59 minutes ago, timpep said:

Completely agree with bringing up (or not) Ruiz. He's got MLB experience so his clock is already ticking right? Let's see what he's got.

Disagree on Suter though. He's had a replacement level year but he's been a solid pitcher his whole career while constantly being bounced from spot starter and reliever.  Career 2.86 ERA as a reliever btw. I wouldn't just cast him aside.

Ruiz's clock was only ticking while he's up. He's got...I don't know, 30 days of service time. It's not like College Athletics where the time starts from when you enroll and keeps ticking no matter what. 

I do agree though, lets see what he can do. I suspect that're waiting for the rosters to expand, but we need help now.

As for Suter, I think there's a good chance he's not brought back next year anyway, and Lamet was at least worth taking a flier on, so maybe he's not the first player I'd get rid of...but he was pretty high up on that list. I wonder if Suter being such a big clubhouse guy played a role. They just traded Hader and didn't want to get rid of Suter to take a flier on this guy who hasn't thrown well. But I can't find any justification for Jake McGee.

 

[Jopal78]

An interesting note:

Taylor Rogers was an All-Star last season in Minnesota.

                 IP: 40.1,  38H, 4HR, 10BB, 59K

Taylor Rogers in 2022 despite being removed as the Padres closer, and a rough start as a Brewer:

                IP: 45, 43H, 3HR, 12BB, 55K.

He's been allowing approximately the same amount of hits and walks as last year, and has kept the ball in the park better this year than last. Seems like a guy who is still a quality pitcher but has really just run into some poor luck this year. 

[monty57]

2 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

An interesting note:

Taylor Rogers was an All-Star last season in Minnesota.

                 IP: 40.1,  38H, 4HR, 10BB, 59K

Taylor Rogers in 2022 despite being removed as the Padres closer, and a rough start as a Brewer:

                IP: 45, 43H, 3HR, 12BB, 55K.

He's been allowing approximately the same amount of hits and walks as last year, and has kept the ball in the park better this year than last. Seems like a guy who is still a quality pitcher but has really just run into some poor luck this year. 

I got worried as soon as he was put on the mound against the Cardinals. The part of the lineup they put him out for murders LHP:

O'Neill: .283/.350/.434/.784 124 wRC+ (72 vs RHP)

Arenado: .260/.337/.688/1.026 179 wRC+ (152 vs RHP)

Goldschmidt: .432/.531/.815/1.345 269 wRC+ (165 vs RHP)

Pujols: .351/.386/.662/1.049 183 wRC+ (76 vs RHP)

 

He never should have been put out in that situation. They should've used a RHP as every one up is much better vs LHP. The mistake was made even bigger when he was left out there to face Pujols, whose only role these days is to mash LHP.

Honestly, I don't understand why, with two days off in the week leading up to the Cardinal series, Counsell didn't adjust the rotation. St Louis destroys LHP, and the Dodgers destroy RHP, but we were set up to put two lefties out in the three games against the Cards, and mostly righties against the Dodgers. Other teams always seem to line up their lefties against the Brewers, but we can't figure out how to do this, even when we had two days off in a four-day stretch leading into these important series.

I've always liked Counsell, but he really seems to be putting players in a position to fail these days.

[NBBrewFan]

3 hours ago, monty57 said:

I've always liked Counsell, but he really seems to be putting players in a position to fail these days.

Bingo!

As I've said multiple times, I would love to see the Brewers data that backs up a lot of these decisions.  Does it even exist? It just doesn't make sense and as you eloquently stated it sets up players to fail. My biggest fear about moving prospects, up with an expectation that they will play, is that they won't play nearly enough and as soon as they have a bad game, or don't detail CC's car to his liking, they will get bench butt.

Set players up to succeed and play the future and sit the past.

[brewcrewdue80]

On 8/15/2022 at 5:23 PM, UpandIn said:

Ruiz's clock was only ticking while he's up. He's got...I don't know, 30 days of service time. It's not like College Athletics where the time starts from when you enroll and keeps ticking no matter what. 

I do agree though, lets see what he can do. I suspect that're waiting for the rosters to expand, but we need help now.

As for Suter, I think there's a good chance he's not brought back next year anyway, and Lamet was at least worth taking a flier on, so maybe he's not the first player I'd get rid of...but he was pretty high up on that list. I wonder if Suter being such a big clubhouse guy played a role. They just traded Hader and didn't want to get rid of Suter to take a flier on this guy who hasn't thrown well. But I can't find any justification for Jake McGee.

 

Looks like Ruiz was playing right up to the trade last on July 31st.  Theres a period I believe in days on an option before recalling him up to be reached or that time in the minors still counts for his mlb service time.  Now teams are calling players up and Id have to wonder if Milw is rewinding his clock enough to avoid a Super 2 situation. Seeing so many teams calling up top prospects this past week I'd wonder if they're figuring this week's date keeps them clear of it.  

Also Ruiz being a rookie I'd wonder how he works the transition from recent move up to SD to now Milw and put right in to spotlight of a 1st place division team as starting CF.  What Milw has likely done has given him a chance to get acclimated to his new team- while getting a chance to prepare for his living future in Milw. 

Going back to the option date and time needed before days didn't add to service time. I think it's 20 or 25.  So his day to be recalled is coming up here soon. 

It's still maybe just a big mistake they traded Hader with 1day +hrs of deadline left believing there were going to make another move the following day.  They sent Ruiz down to AAA-lost Lamet- and didn't pull off that hitter move. You may have just kept Ruiz on the team had the trade happened in its final hours. 

[Hopper]

10 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

 

Also Ruiz being a rookie I'd wonder how he works the transition from recent move up to SD to now Milw and put right in to spotlight of a 1st place division team as starting CF.  What Milw has likely done has given him a chance to get acclimated to his new team- while getting a chance to prepare for his living future in Milw. 

 

Did we trade him to Cardinals?

[brewcrewdue80]

56 minutes ago, Hopper said:

Did we trade him to Cardinals?

Brewers were in 1st place when trade was made.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Ruiz's numbers in Nashville pale in comparison to Jonathan Davis's, who everyone can't wait to get rid of. I wouldn't count on him holding down the starting CF spot anytime soon. Frelick, on the other hand...