Josh Hader Traded to the Padres

[Never Outhustled]

3 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Trea Turner would have nearly emptied the farm system. Josh Bell, they were interested in, but he ultimately ended up going in the Soto deal, so nothing you can do about that. And Gallo has just completely sucked this year and cost the Dodgers a nice prospect in Clayton Beeter. BTW, way too early to say he's "his old self" after 6 average games. Overall, there was not much at all available to Stearns this deadline in terms of clear offensive upgrades that wouldn't have required gutting our farm system. 

The Dodgers didn't really give up that much for Turner considering Trea wasn't even the headliner of that deal.

The simple thing to get Bell is to make a better offer. Considering what the rumored price for Soto was, Bell was pretty much a throw in. 

Beeter was the 15th ranked prospect in the Dodgers system. We have up our 18th ranked prospect for an injured guy who was free to sign with anyone 3 weeks ago.

[Brewcrew82]

45 minutes ago, Never Outhustled said:

The Dodgers didn't really give up that much for Turner considering Trea wasn't even the headliner of that deal.

The simple thing to get Bell is to make a better offer. Considering what the rumored price for Soto was, Bell was pretty much a throw in. 

Beeter was the 15th ranked prospect in the Dodgers system. We have up our 18th ranked prospect for an injured guy who was free to sign with anyone 3 weeks ago.

Yeah, because Turner went with Scherzer and his salary. But had the Brewers wanted to acquire just Turner the cost would have been quite high with his 1.5 years of arbitration control remaining and would have come at a time when the Brewers farm system was probably the worst in the majors. Then, we would've lost him after this season. There's just no way we can usurp the Dodgers in these situations, and it's not in our interest to do so.

You say that's the "simple thing to get Bell", but have you considered that the Nationals may have preferred to trade both Soto and Bell together? We were were listed as among the favorites for Bell, so my guess is that Stearns really wanted him, but once Bell was going to be included as part of the Soto deal that put him out of our reach.

As for Beeter, while our farm system is significantly improved, you can't say Kelly is equivalent because he was ranked 18th in our system, as the Dodgers system remains superior to ours. MLB Pipeline gives Beeter a 50 FV, so that would have basically required us to part with a Gasser/Turang/Mitchell/Black to get Gallo. That's a terrible deal for us when Gallo has been so bad and is going to be a free agent after the year. 

[UpandIn]

20 minutes ago, Never Outhustled said:

The Dodgers didn't really give up that much for Turner considering Trea wasn't even the headliner of that deal.

The simple thing to get Bell is to make a better offer. Considering what the rumored price for Soto was, Bell was pretty much a throw in. 

Beeter was the 15th ranked prospect in the Dodgers system. We have up our 18th ranked prospect for an injured guy who was free to sign with anyone 3 weeks ago.

I don't get how you can make that distinction. The All-Star SS was every bit the headliner as Scherzer. That was the protection against Seager leaving.

As for trading for Gallo...yeah, that I'm sure would have gone over REAL well. Trading away a better prospect, which, by the way, the Dodgers have....what, 6 or 7 guys in the top 100 right now and a much more highly regarded system -but trading FOR, never mind who we traded away, trading for a guy hitting .159 with a .282 OBP? That wouldn't have made anyone happier. 

 

And sure. Bell was a throw in. And when you're getting back Abrams, Gore, Hassell and a couple other incredibly talented young players, you're really gonna risk that to make a trade with the Brewers? 

[UpandIn]

8 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Yeah, because Turner went with Scherzer and his salary.

Scherzer wasn't being paid last year IIRC and the Dodgers only ended up paying the final 15M of his deferred money(Which was a lot of his money). 

But they got two elite prospects that the Brewers just...didn't have last year at this time. Who WERE the top 100 prospects we had last year? Again, maybe Mitchell and Turang? That's not on the same level as Ruiz, Gray and the two other fliers they got back. Particularly last year. 

[Robocaller]

15 hours ago, brewers888 said:

What exactly does it really mean to be a league average bat when around half or more of the teams are not even competitive. I think being league average may have meant something years ago when you didn't have so many uncompetitive teams but since our competition is the few teams trying to win being average at something means little to nothing.

A team full of average hitters is fine, if your rotation and back end of the bullpen are dominant.
The rotation and bullpen are doing to determine how far this team goes.
 

[wntrtxn21]

15 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Yeah, because Turner went with Scherzer and his salary. But had the Brewers wanted to acquire just Turner the cost would have been quite high with his 1.5 years of arbitration control remaining and would have come at a time when the Brewers farm system was probably the worst in the majors. Then, we would've lost him after this season. There's just no way we can usurp the Dodgers in these situations, and it's not in our interest to do so.

You say that's the "simple thing to get Bell", but have you considered that the Nationals may have preferred to trade both Soto and Bell together? We were were listed as among the favorites for Bell, so my guess is that Stearns really wanted him, but once Bell was going to be included as part of the Soto deal that put him out of our reach.

As for Beeter, while our farm system is significantly improved, you can't say Kelly is equivalent because he was ranked 18th in our system, as the Dodgers system remains superior to ours. MLB Pipeline gives Beeter a 50 FV, so that would have basically required us to part with a Gasser/Turang/Mitchell/Black to get Gallo. That's a terrible deal for us when Gallo has been so bad and is going to be a free agent after the year. 

The highest SV I ever saw for Beeter was 18. Still way to high for Gallo, but certainly not anywhere close to the combined value of Turang/Black/Mitchell/Gasser. 

[Brewcrew82]

20 minutes ago, wntrtxn21 said:

The highest SV I ever saw for Beeter was 18. Still way to high for Gallo, but certainly not anywhere close to the combined value of Turang/Black/Mitchell/Gasser. 

I meant one of those prospects, not all of them. Also, Beeter has a 50 FV, or overall grade on MLB pipeline, which is the same as those prospects. 

[Hopper]

I heard a rumor that Hader cut off all his hair...

[edfunderburk]

4 hours ago, Hopper said:

I heard a rumor that Hader cut off all his hair...

Where did you hear this rumor?

[Brewcrew82]

I wonder if we'll make an effort to resign Rogers this offseason? I personally wouldn't think so due to the Bush acquisition and the money Rogers will probably command in free agency...

[Jim French Stepstool]

Rogers spent several years in Minnesota, and (I think) played his college ball at Kentucky. IF he's one of those guys who enjoys being in a little less of a fishbowl, and has a real positive experience here (likes the town, his teammates, clicks well with Chris Hook), I guess stranger things have happened. But someone will probably look for him to close games, and with Williams here for a stretch of time yet I'd say pretty doubtful.

[UpandIn]

25 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Rogers spent several years in Minnesota, and (I think) played his college ball at Kentucky. IF he's one of those guys who enjoys being in a little less of a fishbowl, and has a real positive experience here (likes the town, his teammates, clicks well with Chris Hook), I guess stranger things have happened. But someone will probably look for him to close games, and with Williams here for a stretch of time yet I'd say pretty doubtful.

Should be interesting to see how the season plays out with all the potential BP arms we've got. Does Topa/Cousins come back and provide anything, how's Bush pitch, Devin Williams(with his FB velo dropping, I get more and more concerned hitters are just gonna sit on that fastball and ignore the change). 

And then there's Rosenthal. 15 innings from him, maybe they bring him back as well. 

We should have a deep pen next year and Hader spoiled us, but we've also got this Lamet kid, I hear he's got an even better slider!

 

[UpandIn]

On 8/12/2022 at 2:57 PM, Brewcrew82 said:

I meant one of those prospects, not all of them. Also, Beeter has a 50 FV, or overall grade on MLB pipeline, which is the same as those prospects. 

Quote

so that would have basically required us to part with a Gasser/Turang/Mitchell/Black to get Gallo. That's a terrible deal for us when Gallo has been so bad and is going to be a free agent after the year. 

C'mon...obviously he didn't mean Gasser, Turang, Mitchell AND Black to rent Joey Gallo for a few months. 

Still, Dodgers gave up a pitcher with...at least two plus pitches, including a upper 90s FB with movement and a very long injury history. For a guy hitting .160/.280. 

That right there makes me skeptical of Beeter. The Dodgers have some inherent advantages when it comes to building their farm system. Easier to sign high profile international FAs for example(same as the Yanks)...but they ALSO do a helluva job deciding which of those highly touted prospects to trade, which to keep. They managed to keep Cartaya and trade Ruiz. They seem to generally keep the right guys in these trades. If the Rays had a limitless budget. Which I guess makes sense with Friedman. I suppose we'll be saying something similar in 4-5 years with Stearns and the Mets. 

[StearnsFTW]

On 8/12/2022 at 12:00 AM, UpandIn said:

I don't get how you can make that distinction. The All-Star SS was every bit the headliner as Scherzer. That was the protection against Seager leaving.

As for trading for Gallo...yeah, that I'm sure would have gone over REAL well. Trading away a better prospect, which, by the way, the Dodgers have....what, 6 or 7 guys in the top 100 right now and a much more highly regarded system -but trading FOR, never mind who we traded away, trading for a guy hitting .159 with a .282 OBP? That wouldn't have made anyone happier. 

 

And sure. Bell was a throw in. And when you're getting back Abrams, Gore, Hassell and a couple other incredibly talented young players, you're really gonna risk that to make a trade with the Brewers? 

Would've loved Gallo.

 

Great change of scenery candidate.

[Never Outhustled]

Gallo has a 932 OPS with the Dodgers so far, meanwhile the Brewers have both Andrew McCutchen and Jonathon Davis in the lineup today versus a RHP. It's like we're trying to lose. 

[Brewcrew82]

15 minutes ago, Never Outhustled said:

Gallo has a 932 OPS with the Dodgers so far, meanwhile the Brewers have both Andrew McCutchen and Jonathon Davis in the lineup today versus a RHP. It's like we're trying to lose. 

After 7 games and one of his two home runs came off a position player...Meanwhile, he's struck out in 50% of his at-bats. 

[Never Outhustled]

18 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

After 7 games and one of his two home runs came off a position player...Meanwhile, he's struck out in 50% of his at-bats. 

Yes, it's really important that players ground out to shortstop regularly. 

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, Never Outhustled said:

Yes, it's really important that players ground out to shortstop regularly. 

Yes. Making contact is in fact important. 

[Never Outhustled]

11 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Yes. Making contact is in fact important. 

Statistically, it's inconsequential. However, if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, go with it. 

[Brewcrew82]

2 minutes ago, Never Outhustled said:

Statistically, it's inconsequential. However, if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, go with it. 

Making contact is inconsequential in the game of baseball? Gotcha. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

18 minutes ago, Never Outhustled said:

Yes, it's really important that players ground out to shortstop regularly. 

Rather have that than a guy that Ks 50% of the time.

[Never Outhustled]

1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Making contact is inconsequential in the game of baseball? Gotcha. 

Yes, runs scored is a product of OPS, the type of outs made has an inconsequential affect on runs scored. 

[Never Outhustled]

Just now, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Rather have that than a guy that Ks 50% of the time.

I'd rather concentrate on how often the player gets safe, and the number of bases those produce.

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, Never Outhustled said:

Yes, runs scored is a product of OPS, the type of outs made has an inconsequential affect on runs scored. 

How can you score runs without making contact? And Ks do matter for run-scoring purposes because the ball isn't even put into play. Gallo is elite in his ability to make hard contact but the reason he's not an elite hitter is because he doesn't make enough contact for it to translate.

[Never Outhustled]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

How can you score runs without making contact? And Ks do matter for run-scoring purposes because the ball isn't even put into play. Gallo is elite in his ability to make hard contact but the reason he's not an elite hitter is because he doesn't make enough contact for it to translate.

You pretend like Gallo strikes out 100% of the time. He doesn't. He's had numerous All-Star seasons with an OPS over 900, and  had huge K totals in all of them. 

What do all the teams that score more than the Brewers have in common? They have a higher team OPS.