Hader VERY BAD for Padres

[NBBrewFan]

No updates?  Does that have to do with Hader pitching 5 times in September and giving up 1 run (3 saves), while our lump of Bleep has now given up 10 runs in 8 IP (oh, but only 9 earned).  Maybe we should change the title to "Rodgers VERY BAD for Brewers"

[wiguy94]

16 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

No updates?  Does that have to do with Hader pitching 5 times in September and giving up 1 run (3 saves), while our lump of Bleep has now given up 10 runs in 8 IP (oh, but only 9 earned).  Maybe we should change the title to "Rodgers VERY BAD for Brewers"

And yet Rogers ERA as a Brewer is still over 4 runs lower than Hader's as a Padre.

[Austin Tatious]

If you want a guy who throws it over the plate without much movement at a comfortable velocity, Rogers is the guy for you.  The Brewers wanted someone who can help in the pen now and got snookered.  They took on Lamet’s salary and then goofed up the roster manipulation.  Not to mention trading for damaged goods in Rosenthal. I like Stearns, I always have.  But this was a train wreck. 

[NBBrewFan]

12 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

And yet Rogers ERA as a Brewer is still over 4 runs lower than Hader's as a Padre.

Gee did MLB adopt rotisserie rules for 2022 and I missed it.  Doesn't matter what happened in 3 games when your elite closer is now back to hitting the strike zone and putting up zeroes.  I bet you think Rogers is an elite closer, I can see that as he's a Brewer now some would think that's the case since all his faults (from evasive command, to mediocre stuff) don't matter and his results really don't matter as long as he's in the right uniform.  Personally I'd take the pitcher who's given up 1 HR since being traded vs. the one who's given up 6HR or roughly 3.3/9IP. Especially when the main reason for that higher ERA (poor command) has been fixed. 

[Axman59]

13 hours ago, Austin Tatious said:

If you want a guy who throws it over the plate without much movement at a comfortable velocity, Rogers is the guy for you.  The Brewers wanted someone who can help in the pen now and got snookered.  They took on Lamet’s salary and then goofed up the roster manipulation.  Not to mention trading for damaged goods in Rosenthal. I like Stearns, I always have.  But this was a train wreck. 

And Lamet, who the Brewers threw away like an expired carton of milk, has pitched well for the Rockies. 3.18 ERA in 17 innings pitched.

 

Stearns should be ashamed of himself...

[Robocaller]

14 hours ago, Austin Tatious said:

If you want a guy who throws it over the plate without much movement at a comfortable velocity, Rogers is the guy for you.  The Brewers wanted someone who can help in the pen now and got snookered.  They took on Lamet’s salary and then goofed up the roster manipulation.  Not to mention trading for damaged goods in Rosenthal. I like Stearns, I always have.  But this was a train wreck. 

I don't see how you can say he doesn't have much movement. His problem is command.

[Robocaller]

17 hours ago, NBBrewFan said:

No updates?  Does that have to do with Hader pitching 5 times in September and giving up 1 run (3 saves), while our lump of Bleep has now given up 10 runs in 8 IP (oh, but only 9 earned).  Maybe we should change the title to "Rodgers VERY BAD for Brewers"

Josh Hader has only pitched twice since the 9th because SD has no faith in him. He's getting more rest than a SP.

[NBBrewFan]

1 hour ago, Robocaller said:

Josh Hader has only pitched twice since the 9th because SD has no faith in him. He's getting more rest than a SP.

He's pitched in every game the Padres had a save situation or were tied in the ninth in September. He's converted every save opportunity and the Padres won the tie game he pitched the ninth.

Yep, clearly they have no faith in him.

[LouisEly]

7 hours ago, NBBrewFan said:

Gee did MLB adopt rotisserie rules for 2022 and I missed it.  Doesn't matter what happened in 3 games when your elite closer is now back to hitting the strike zone and putting up zeroes.  I bet you think Rogers is an elite closer, I can see that as he's a Brewer now some would think that's the case since all his faults (from evasive command, to mediocre stuff) don't matter and his results really don't matter as long as he's in the right uniform.  Personally I'd take the pitcher who's given up 1 HR since being traded vs. the one who's given up 6HR or roughly 3.3/9IP. Especially when the main reason for that higher ERA (poor command) has been fixed. 

Since the trade, Rogers has pitched in 20 games for the Brewers and has given up earned runs in 6 of those (30%).

Since the trade, Hader has pitched in 13 games for the Padres and has given up earned runs in 4 of those (31%).

Hader's ERA since the trade is 10.97; Rogers is 6.63.

[JRob1125]

17 hours ago, Austin Tatious said:

If you want a guy who throws it over the plate without much movement at a comfortable velocity, Rogers is the guy for you.  The Brewers wanted someone who can help in the pen now and got snookered.  They took on Lamet’s salary and then goofed up the roster manipulation.  Not to mention trading for damaged goods in Rosenthal. I like Stearns, I always have.  But this was a train wreck. 

 

Rodgers has a nasty slider, better than Hader's.

[Axman59]

55 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Since the trade, Rogers has pitched in 20 games for the Brewers and has given up earned runs in 6 of those (30%).

Since the trade, Hader has pitched in 13 games for the Padres and has given up earned runs in 4 of those (31%).

Hader's ERA since the trade is 10.97; Rogers is 6.63.

In his last 4 appearances Hader has pitched 4 innings, 0 ER, 3 saves.

In his last 2 appearances Taylor has pitched 1.2 innings with 5 ER.

 

Which of these two seems more likely to pitch well through the end of the season? I know I'd rather have Hader. I also think Hader would not have pitched as poorly for the Brewers as he did for the Padres (although lacking a time machine or a parallel universe I can't prove it).

[wiguy94]

11 minutes ago, Axman59 said:

In his last 4 appearances Hader has pitched 4 innings, 0 ER, 3 saves.

In his last 2 appearances Taylor has pitched 1.2 innings with 5 ER.

 

Which of these two seems more likely to pitch well through the end of the season? I know I'd rather have Hader. I also think Hader would not have pitched as poorly for the Brewers as he did for the Padres (although lacking a time machine or a parallel universe I can't prove it).

The Padres also demoted Hader from closer and had him pitch 4 times in a 21 day timespan. Would Hader have been afforded either of those luxuries to get things right again in Milwaukee? Seems doubtful to me.

[Axman59]

7 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

The Padres also demoted Hader from closer and had him pitch 4 times in a 21 day timespan. Would Hader have been afforded either of those luxuries to get things right again in Milwaukee? Seems doubtful to me.

Yes

[Robocaller]

9 hours ago, NBBrewFan said:

He's pitched in every game the Padres had a save situation or were tied in the ninth in September. He's converted every save opportunity and the Padres won the tie game he pitched the ninth.

Yep, clearly they have no faith in him.

Finally we agree. ?

 

[MrTPlush]

At the end of the day, his bad stretch with the Padres is meaningless. He is back to pitching lights out heading into October and that is what they got him for. 

[Axman59]

I think we underestimate how much real life can impact the performance of a professional athlete. Being traded, sick child, sick wife, sick parent, financial troubles, etc.

Think about how terrible Jean Segura was in 2014-2015, which is when his child was sick and then passed away. A lot of people were ready to write him off but he bounced back and has put together a very nice career (27.9 bWAR).

These elite athletes are at the very edge of high performance. I can see where it doesn't take much to throw things off.

[SomewhereInTime]

16 hours ago, Axman59 said:

In his last 4 appearances Hader has pitched 4 innings, 0 ER, 3 saves.

In his last 2 appearances Taylor has pitched 1.2 innings with 5 ER.

 

Which of these two seems more likely to pitch well through the end of the season? I know I'd rather have Hader. I also think Hader would not have pitched as poorly for the Brewers as he did for the Padres (although lacking a time machine or a parallel universe I can't prove it).

So we're talking about a sample size of four innings vs one and two thirds innings?  And this is supposed to be used to predict something for the future?

[jerichoholicninja]

Hader has sucked for the Padres and Taylor has sucked for the Brewers. There's no way around either of those facts.

[Thurston Fluff]

15 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Hader has sucked for the Padres and Taylor has sucked for the Brewers. There's no way around either of those facts.

Neither is the fact that the Brewers got more than just Taylor for Hader.

[monty57]

14 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Hader has sucked for the Padres and Taylor has sucked for the Brewers. There's no way around either of those facts.

That pretty much sums it up. The posts discussing which one has sucked worse seem to be nothing more than validating a person's initial feelings about the trade.

The Brewers have two promising prospects and should have some extra money to spend next year. The Padres have Hader for another year.

I do wish they would have worked it out so we kept Lamet. 

[Playing Catch]

Predicting the future is a tricky business. Fraught with risks, and filled with rewards.

I, myself, am contemptibly risk-averse. I am glad that our GM is not (e.g. Yelich contract, Thames/Lindblom contracts, ALL of his trades including this one)... I mean, doesn't that mean that he's trying?

I also maintain that the Lamet deal got weird on deadline day due to unforeseen trade possibilities and 40-man implications.

None of this is to say that we shouldn't criticize the moves with 20-20 hindsight, we absolutely should! Let's just not pretend that all of this [perceived] mess could have been avoided if only Stearns and company would've heeded our collective advice. Let's also not pretend that the only successful baseball bosses win a World Championship every year, and when they don't, they then suck.

[rickh150]

We kept Suter over Lamet. And Lamet would have been a trade chip for 2023 too. But the faith in Suter… wow. We also kept Jake McGee over Lamet, only to DFA him for nothing a few days later. 
Worst deadline in Brewers history… 

[Axman59]

1 hour ago, rickh150 said:

Worst deadline in Brewers history… 

Agreed. A total kick to the crotch. I can't even imagine how angry the players must be.

[SomewhereInTime]

4 hours ago, rickh150 said:

We kept Suter over Lamet. And Lamet would have been a trade chip for 2023 too. But the faith in Suter… wow. We also kept Jake McGee over Lamet, only to DFA him for nothing a few days later. 
Worst deadline in Brewers history… 

I mean, Suter is fine, I defintely would keep him over Lamet even if they could make that decision again right now.  Its McGee who shouldve been released.

[StearnsFTW]

On 9/22/2022 at 8:06 AM, MrTPlush said:

At the end of the day, his bad stretch with the Padres is meaningless. He is back to pitching lights out heading into October and that is what they got him for. 

It's only meaningless if they make the playoffs, which is far from guaranteed.