Ding dong, the shift is dead. Long live the pitch clock.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm on board with these changes. Wonder how the larger bases thing is going to play out, I don't see any mention of it being voted on at all, much less it being voted down.

 

[owbc]

The shift ban doesn't affect outfielders, right? So in theory a team could still put the right fielder in the shift and have the LF/CF cover the rest of the outfield? 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I like the pitch clock and larger bases. Not really in favor of banning the shift. MLB hitters have gotten lazy and pull-happy as it is, and this is only going to make it worse IMO. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 minute ago, owbc said:

The shift ban doesn't affect outfielders, right? So in theory a team could still put the right fielder in the shift and have the LF/CF cover the rest of the outfield? 

It doesn't seem to impact OF but unsure.

[Brock Beauchamp]

And the players voted unanimously against both. Bleh, get out of your own way, MLBPA. You are absolutely in the wrong for not supporting the pitch clock at the very least.

 

[owbc]

9 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

It doesn't seem to impact OF but unsure.

I confirmed it is a MINIMUM of 2 infielders on each side. So a 5-man infield is allowed. That makes me feel better about this rule, since the guys who are extreme pull hitters will probably still see a shift in many situations.

I also expect that we'll still see the infielders in weird positions -- they might surrender the hit up the middle in exchange for covering the pull direction. 

[markedman5]

 

[igor67]

Star Trek Deep Space 9 does a solid job of covering a future were baseball dies, which is why I'm in 100% agreement with Brock that the players union is totally on the wrong side here. Even in a cynical narrow sense that any current players will still get paid throughout their careers that sweet pension isn't guaranteed forever if the popularity falls off a cliff.

[GAME05]

I don't mind the pitch clock too much. Sometimes pitchers take slow-playing too far and the game can really drag on that way. And if larger bases are safer for players or make it easier to make accurate calls, so be it. I don't see either really effecting the way the game is played, so therefore I don't much care one way or another.

Totally against rules on telling a defense where it should play, though. Why reward batters who are only able to pull the ball? Being able to hit a ball all over the field is a skill and that skill should be rewarded. If baseball wants more offense it can lower the mound, which has been the strategy from since Bob Feller.

Yet another change I don't like at all. MLB likes to ignore the game itself in favor of pushing more playoffs and taking an NBA strategy in thinking we come out only for individual players.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Maybe by 2040 we can "advance" to the point where you'll just have a 9-man batting order, a pitcher & catcher with no fielders. When a ball is put in play, a group of aerodynamics experts & mathematicians in an enclosed skybox somewhere can determine out or safe & how many bases awarded by calculating launch angle & MPH off the bat.

Now if you'll excuse me, there's some clouds rolling by, I have to go outside & yell at them.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm in favor it all. It's just gotten too hard to hit MLB pitching. The shift rules are liberal enough that the shift isn't really "dead." The clocks, I'm in total support of. Almost anything that gets the game time down is good. I'd love to see 7 inning games, personally, but that's radical. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

11 minutes ago, GAME05 said:

.... taking an NBA strategy in thinking we come out only for individual players.

That's a terrific point. I hate the trend, but 20-30 somethings are going to be around a lot longer than old-school type fans & whether right or wrong they're attempting to cater to what they see in their crystal balls. $$$.

[owbc]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I'm in favor it all. It's just gotten too hard to hit MLB pitching. The shift rules are liberal enough that the shift isn't really "dead." The clocks, I'm in total support of. Almost anything that gets the game time down is good. I'd love to see 7 inning games, personally, but that's radical. 

Based on the testing in the minors, it sounds like the pitch clock favors hitters since it is faster for the body to recover from a hard swing than a fast pitch. The 100 mph guys are going to struggle the most with these changes. Which will be great. 

I've noticed that most hitters who recently came up from the minors are already used to keeping one foot in the batters box. It tends to be the pitchers who initiate most of the delays. 

[Samurai Bucky]

20 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Now if you'll excuse me, there's some clouds rolling by, I have to go outside & yell at them.

You'd better not be doing that on my lawn!  ?

[Thurston Fluff]

Silly question but how does the 20 second rule work with baserunners? If I was a base runner I'd know for sure the pitcher had to throw to the plate and I could get a running lead every time the clock was winding down.

[markedman5]

 

[Patrick425]

As a someone who started following baseball as a kid in the 70s, I'm all for the pitch clock.  If you were not around then or not a fan during this era, go back and watch one of those games if you can.  Brent Suter would not have stood out as an overly quick pitcher back then. 

However, maybe I will change my mind or it won't bother me as much, once I see it implemented, but as of now, I absolutely hate the limited pick off attempts rule. Seems like a rule to "dumb down" to the lowest common denominator. I'm sure I may not be understanding something correctly, but the way I read the rule is that the pitcher is allowed two pick off attempts or step-offs. If he attempts a 3rd, the runner is automatically awarded the next base.  So, in affect, isn't it really only one attempt.  Once the pitcher attempts twice, why wouldn't the runner just jog to the next base once the pitcher toes the rubber? If the pitcher steps off the rubber or throws someplace other than home, then that's the 3rd attempt and the runner would be awarded the next base anyways.  I'm sure I'm not understanding something, but regardless, not a fan of this rule at all. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Patrick425
changed "would" to "wouldn't" regarding the runner advancing

[Brock Beauchamp]

6 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

 

Does Hiura do ANYTHING normally?

[Brock Beauchamp]

7 minutes ago, Patrick425 said:

As a someone who started following baseball as a kid in the 70s, I'm all for the pitch clock.  If you were not around then or not a fan during this era, go back and watch one of those games if you can.  Brent Suter would not have stood out as an overly quick pitcher back then. 

However, maybe I will change my mind or it won't bother me as much, once I see it implemented, but as of now, I absolutely hate the limited pick off attempts rule. Seems like a rule to "dumb down" to the lowest common denominator. I'm sure I may not be understanding something correctly, but the way I read the rule is that the pitcher is allowed two pick off attempts or step-offs. If he attempts a 3rd, the runner is automatically awarded the next base.  So, in affect, isn't it really only one attempt.  Once the pitcher attempts twice, why would the runner just jog to the next base once the pitcher toes the rubber? If the pitcher steps off the rubber or throws someplace other than home, then that's the 3rd attempt and the runner would be awarded the next base anyways.  I'm sure I'm not understanding something, but regardless, not a fan of this rule at all. 

The pitcher can throw a third time but it needs to be successful or the runner is awarded a base. 

[Patrick425]

1 minute ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

The pitcher can throw a third time but it needs to be successful or the runner is awarded a base. 

Ah. I see. I knew I was missing something.  Still not a fan.  Is this to speed up the game or slow it down? Or neither...what is the purpose, other than, for some reason, many fans are really impatient when it comes to pick off attempts? More stolen bases and bigger lead offs, leads to more offense, which leads to longer games (not to mention the time it takes a catcher to throw down to 2nd, which will happen more often....which will also lead to more challenges on calls at 2nd)

[owbc]

1 minute ago, Patrick425 said:

Ah. I see. I knew I was missing something.  Still not a fan.  Is this to speed up the game or slow it down? Or neither...what is the purpose, other than, for some reason, many fans are really impatient when it comes to pick off attempts? More stolen bases and bigger lead offs, leads to more offense, which leads to longer games (not to mention the time it takes a catcher to throw down to 2nd, which will happen more often....which will also lead to more challenges on calls at 2nd)

They had to close the loophole that allowed pitchers to step off or throw to first if they wanted to reset the pitch clock. 

[Patrick425]

2 minutes ago, owbc said:

They had to close the loophole that allowed pitchers to step off or throw to first if they wanted to reset the pitch clock. 

Ok, makes sense. So, they had to institute a new rule that I hate because of another new rule that I like. ?‍♂️

[Nola Beery]

I HATE HATE HATE HATE (&c. times infinity) the banning of the shift,  It was an organic, natural innovation (though not THAT new).  It should be addressed by adjustments in tactics and strategy, not in a committee room.  But then, I still hate the DH.  Before long, we'll have T-20 baseball (That's a reference to fiddling with cricket to make it quicker; the Brits should just switch to baseball!)

Pitch clock?  I despise time-wasting (except my own), but I'm not sure how that will work and have not even tried to understand it.  Good in principle, but I withhold judgment, as if our opinions count for squat. 

Base size? Meh. It's fine.  

[Nola Beery]

24 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

The pitcher can throw a third time but it needs to be successful or the runner is awarded a base. 

That's just not right at all.  

[Nola Beery]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Maybe by 2040 we can "advance" to the point where you'll just have a 9-man batting order, a pitcher & catcher with no fielders. When a ball is put in play, a group of aerodynamics experts & mathematicians in an enclosed skybox somewhere can determine out or safe & how many bases awarded by calculating launch angle & MPH off the bat.

Now if you'll excuse me, there's some clouds rolling by, I have to go outside & yell at them.

This thread will not get any better than this post.  It can now be closed!