Wisconsin Basketball 2022-23

[Jim French Stepstool]

6 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

If McIntosh was willing to fire Tony Granato, Gard is dead man walking. He clearly wants his guys in place. 

Never met McIntosh so I don't know. I do know that so far the BB team has had a moderately-to-clearly better season than FB, and much better than Hockeyball. If he waits to see how the recruiting battles in the '24 & '25 classes turn out, that would make the most sense.

[LouisEly]

20 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

If McIntosh was willing to fire Tony Granato, Gard is dead man walking. He clearly wants his guys in place. 

Then why didn't he fire him in 2021 when the recording of the team meeting leaked?  They finished 18-13 that year and unranked.

[patrickgpe]

1 hour ago, LouisEly said:

Then why didn't he fire him in 2021 when the recording of the team meeting leaked?  They finished 18-13 that year and unranked.

Different AD in place whom didn’t hire him.

also he has already fired the hockey and football coach and I’m just assuming, as an outsider and not badger fan, that Mens and woman’s basketball are next 

[LouisEly]

36 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

Different AD in place whom didn’t hire him.

Same AD today as was on June 22, 2021 when the recording was leaked.

[MVP2110]

1 hour ago, patrickgpe said:

Different AD in place whom didn’t hire him.

also he has already fired the hockey and football coach and I’m just assuming, as an outsider and not badger fan, that Mens and woman’s basketball are next 

Men's basketball has had considerably more success than Hockey has recently. Everyone knew Granato was gone after this season 

[patrickgpe]

1 minute ago, MVP2110 said:

Men's basketball has had considerably more success than Hockey has recently. Everyone knew Granato was gone after this season 

As a Marquette fan, I hope they keep him. We shall know in the next week or so 

[Jim French Stepstool]

So apparently, Daniel Freitag has been offered by UW---for football. He still doesn't know what sport he wants to play. I see this less as a Gard vs Fickell thing & more as if you want to play FB, you can still come to UW if you choose to. In fact I assume the two coaches have had their heads together on this.

And no, I don't think there's any chance he plays both sports, not at a P5 level. In fact he had some communication with St. Thomas back at the beginning of the process, and I'm thinking that may have been a glimpse on his part as to playing both, that it would have to be at a lower level during FB season. Even then I think it would be a longshot.

[Samurai Bucky]

Whew!  It is a good thing Wisconsin doesn't have baseball.  Look at all of the headaches that are being avoided.

In all seriousness, there were a lot of athletes that would play baseball and another sport.  Hockey players especially.  I can't remember a combination of basketball and football at any school, though.

[bjkrautk]

22 minutes ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Whew!  It is a good thing Wisconsin doesn't have baseball.  Look at all of the headaches that are being avoided.

In all seriousness, there were a lot of athletes that would play baseball and another sport.  Hockey players especially.  I can't remember a combination of basketball and football at any school, though.

Chris Chambers was on both teams as a Freshman at Wisconsin, but he didn't see the court much in Basketball.

Tony Gonzalez played in the NCAA tournament for Cal, and had a pretty good career as a football player.  I'm sure there are others.

[homer]

There have been a number of basketball/football players. Julius Peppers, Jimmy Graham, Martellus Bennett, Antonio Gates...and others.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Back in the day, Ray Sydnor was a TE who played hoops at UW. Tim Stracka played both briefly, and the aforementioned Chambers.

Let's remember, it wasn't long ago that as long as your team wasn't in a bowl game (back when there weren't 927 of them) football ended around mid-November. Basketball season would then start maybe a week later. Now, if you finish .500 or better you're probably playing in late December/early January & basketball games have been going on for around 7 weeks. Plus there's practice time & whatever reconditioning & recovery you may need to do. Then, before hoops is over you're probably missing at least part of spring ball.

If agreeing to allow him to play both gets his name on a letter I'm all for it. I just don't see how he can realistically do it once it's actually attempted.

[CheezWizHed]

On 3/6/2023 at 9:36 PM, MVP2110 said:

Men's basketball has had considerably more success than Hockey has recently. Everyone knew Granato was gone after this season 

I can't say that I'm a huge hockey fan, but do enjoy keeping tabs on the WI team.  I remember back in in the 90s and 00s it seemed like we were yearly in the discussion for the championship and won several of them.  Since then it kind of ebbed and flowed until more recently it has been garbage.  Kind of embarrassing that we can't field teams better than warm-climate B10 teams. MN has 3 teams regularly in the championship discussion. 

Frankly a change was due. 

A decision on Gard probably is more about his fit going forward with the team than the results on the court.  My personal opinion is that he is a great coach and a mediocre recruiter. He seems to regularly get more out of the team than the sum of the parts, but never is able to recruit many exciting "parts". 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, CheezWizHed said:

I can't say that I'm a huge hockey fan, but do enjoy keeping tabs on the WI team.  I remember back in in the 90s and 00s it seemed like we were yearly in the discussion for the championship and won several of them.  Since then it kind of ebbed and flowed until more recently it has been garbage.  Kind of embarrassing that we can't field teams better than warm-climate B10 teams. MN has 3 teams regularly in the championship discussion. 

Frankly a change was due. 

A decision on Gard probably is more about his fit going forward with the team than the results on the court.  My personal opinion is that he is a great coach and a mediocre recruiter. He seems to regularly get more out of the team than the sum of the parts, but never is able to recruit many exciting "parts". 

I'd put him a little higher than mediocre as a recruiter, but I agree his future with the program is more about what's ahead then the job he's done so far, which IMO has been great. I alluded to it once before, that I think the next 2-3 recruiting cycles are really going to be telling, at least to McIntosh.........not only Freitag but Knueppel, Davion Hannah, Kai Rogers, maybe Will Garlock. You don't have to get all those guys but you need to make a dent on the list.

[Brewcrew82]

35 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I'd put him a little higher than mediocre as a recruiter, but I agree his future with the program is more about what's ahead then the job he's done so far, which IMO has been great. I alluded to it once before, that I think the next 2-3 recruiting cycles are really going to be telling, at least to McIntosh.........not only Freitag but Knueppel, Davion Hannah, Kai Rogers, maybe Will Garlock. You don't have to get all those guys but you need to make a dent on the list.

Yep. Exactly my thoughts. No more 2018, 2019, 2022 recruiting classes. That’s what has directly led to this season, though it would still be a pretty good year for most programs (looking at you MN). 

Need at least one of Knueppel, Freitag, Janowski, for the 2024 class. Not landing any of those guys, striking out in the transfer portal this spring, and another year like this one, would likely be what would get Mac to pull the trigger. 

[owbc]

I think McIntosh is going to end the era of "Wisconsin guys" being head coach. It's happened in football, it's about to happen in men's hockey, and it will happen eventually in men's basketball. Agree 100% that it will be about fit going forward, but they have to suck enough to trigger the move. 

[yourout]

4 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I can't say that I'm a huge hockey fan, but do enjoy keeping tabs on the WI team.  I remember back in in the 90s and 00s it seemed like we were yearly in the discussion for the championship and won several of them.  Since then it kind of ebbed and flowed until more recently it has been garbage.  Kind of embarrassing that we can't field teams better than warm-climate B10 teams. MN has 3 teams regularly in the championship discussion. 

Frankly a change was due. 

A decision on Gard probably is more about his fit going forward with the team than the results on the court.  My personal opinion is that he is a great coach and a mediocre recruiter. He seems to regularly get more out of the team than the sum of the parts, but never is able to recruit many exciting "parts". 

Gard the recruiter has certainly not did Gard the coach any favors.

I don't think there's a coach in the nation that could have squeezed much more out of this group.

[Brewcrew82]

Most embarrassing half of basketball i've ever witnessed. Terrible reflection on Gard. He's got one year to fix this or it's over for him.

[Jim French Stepstool]

I've never seen all 3 of Hepburn, Klesmit & Essegian get outplayed on both ends as badly as they did in the first half. OSU will probably cool off--that almost always happens--but you seldom see all three on the perimeter look so lost. Essegian hasn't looked this bad defensively in a long time. And yeah, OSU has "athletic" guards, but that has little to do with it. They've given athletic guards fits at times this season.

I thought a big turn came when they cut the deficit to 8, then Wahl cut it to six with a layup.......except he didn't because he somehow found a way to miss it. Soon they were down 17. 

Big deficit, but with their youth OSU will probably leave the door open at some point. Don't know if they have what it takes today to walk through it or not.

[Brewcrew82]

Welcome to the NIT, folks. 

As I said before, if Gard wants to keep his job, he needs to Crean: Davis, Gilmore, Hodges, McGee, Ilver, and Lindsay. None of those guys are Power 5 caliber players. The fact that they're all taking up scholarships is beyond embarrassing and precisely why we're in the situation we currently are. 

If Wahl stays, Crowl should probably come off the bench in favor of Yalden. You absolutely cannot have two non-shooters in the front court of this offense. Crowl needs to figure it out this offseason as soft non-shooting bigs aren't going to cut it in the BIG. Wahl also needs to go back to being the player he was last year. 

Need two high-caliber transfers. Ideally a shooting wing in place of Davis and a shot-blocking/rebounding big in place of Gilmore. If they can add those pieces, then they'll be in great shape and competing for BIG titles again. If they don't, it'll be more of the same, and Gard will rightfully be out of a job. 

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I've never seen all 3 of Hepburn, Klesmit & Essegian get outplayed on both ends as badly as they did in the first half. OSU will probably cool off--that almost always happens--but you seldom see all three on the perimeter look so lost. Essegian hasn't looked this bad defensively in a long time. And yeah, OSU has "athletic" guards, but that has little to do with it. They've given athletic guards fits at times this season.

I thought a big turn came when they cut the deficit to 8, then Wahl cut it to six with a layup.......except he didn't because he somehow found a way to miss it. Soon they were down 17. 

Big deficit, but with their youth OSU will probably leave the door open at some point. Don't know if they have what it takes today to walk through it or not.

OSU sure did try to give it away, but yeah. Badgers just couldn't find the big bucket.

Honestly, that looked like a team that needed to put out of its NCAA misery for the last couple weeks. Even against Purdue, there just didn't seem to be a lot of belief that they could really win that game.

And that's an uncool thing to say in the era of analytics, but Wisconsin has always, over the course of my lifetime, been a team that basically wins with belief. They've got guys who trust themselves to get stops and score enough to win. This team appeared to have the offensive yips. Even guys like Essegian (who emerged as a real scorer) and Hepburn (who was the guy) looked rattled at times, unsure whether to hoist or drive or dish. Every great Wisconsin team has a guy you can really trust down the stretch, and this team didn't. That's the whole difference. One guy you can trust and a bunch of role players who believe.

Tyler Wahl wasn't Jon Leuer and had to play like him (without the jump-shooting ability), and, as a result, it's NIT in all likelihood.

Oh well. Time to enjoy the fun of March without the pressure of knowing your team could be eliminated at any time. I know I will.

[Brewcrew82]

Valiant effort. Just not enough offensive talent on this team. Time to get working in the transfer portal and on the recruiting trail, Gard. Your job depends on it.

As a lifelong fan and alumni of this proud program, I hope that first half is as low as it gets from this point on. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Welcome to the NIT, folks. 

As I said before, if Gard wants to keep his job, he needs to Crean: Davis, Gilmore, Hodges, McGee, Ilver, and Lindsay. None of those guys are Power 5 caliber players. The fact that they're all taking up scholarships is beyond embarrassing and precisely why we're in the situation we currently are. 

If Wahl stays, Crowl should probably come off the bench in favor of Yalden. You absolutely cannot have two non-shooters in the front court of this offense. Crowl needs to figure it out this offseason as soft non-shooting bigs aren't going to cut it in the BIG. Wahl also needs to go back to being the player he was last year. 

Need two high-caliber transfers. Ideally a shooting wing in place of Davis and a shot-blocking/rebounding big in place of Gilmore. If they can add those pieces, then they'll be in great shape and competing for BIG titles again. If they don't, it'll be more of the same, and Gard will rightfully be out of a job. 

Wahl needs to get back to where he was his first 3 years. I really enjoy your comments on here, but I'm sorry that's about all I agree with from your list.

Take Crowl. He was pretty soft his second year. This season he improved in that area. Hopefully next year he continues to develop & add strength. He's not a straight-on power center nor will he ever be. He's a skill big, who passes well, usually doesn't turn the ball over & can shoot. His added strength---yes, he's much stronger this season---has made him much better in the low post but has messed with his outside touch. That's only happened to guys who add strength about 5 million times over the years. Hopefully he gets that back.

If there's normal development & added consistency next years' roster can have a lot of success. Would I take a shooting wing & shot-blocking rebounder? Who wouldn't? But you can act like George Steinbrenner & kick all on your list off the team & I still doubt the two types of player you want would see sufficient opportunity to come here save for Wahl leaving (And I'm pretty sure he isn't).

[Oxy]

If just ONE of Gilmore, Wahl or Crowl could shoot 35% from 3 point land the team might have won the conference (and they had stayed healthy).

The personnel next November is going to be interesting.  Gard will be evaluated next April.  I fully expect his seat cools back down to tenured status from the "slightly warm" status it is right now.

It's all about recruiting though.  We've gotten precious few of our top targets the last 6 years...and occasionally we've gotten them they weren't the guy... or even A guy. This might not be a Gard issue but more of an assistant coach issue.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Oxy
changed "emeritus" to "tenured"

[Jim French Stepstool]

42 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

OSU sure did try to give it away, but yeah. Badgers just couldn't find the big bucket.

Honestly, that looked like a team that needed to put out of its NCAA misery for the last couple weeks. Even against Purdue, there just didn't seem to be a lot of belief that they could really win that game.

And that's an uncool thing to say in the era of analytics, but Wisconsin has always, over the course of my lifetime, been a team that basically wins with belief. They've got guys who trust themselves to get stops and score enough to win. This team appeared to have the offensive yips. Even guys like Essegian (who emerged as a real scorer) and Hepburn (who was the guy) looked rattled at times, unsure whether to hoist or drive or dish. Every great Wisconsin team has a guy you can really trust down the stretch, and this team didn't. That's the whole difference. One guy you can trust and a bunch of role players who believe.

Tyler Wahl wasn't Jon Leuer and had to play like him (without the jump-shooting ability), and, as a result, it's NIT in all likelihood.

Oh well. Time to enjoy the fun of March without the pressure of knowing your team could be eliminated at any time. I know I will.

Davis (the one who I'SNT here anymore) would've made a big difference. Not for just the obvious talent, but the way people played off him last season. You're right, Hepburn, Wahl & Essegian never "took" to the increased role, even to the point of sharing it.

What really disappointed me tonight was how crappy they came out in the second half. The deficit went from 18 to I think 27. If we just hold serve or cut into it by a bucket or two the 2nd half run--you knew OSU would give you an opening--probably makes it a 4 or 5 point game with several minutes left. Just too little too late. 

The failure on 50-50 balls--both rebounds & scrambles--has been frustrating most of the season.

[Jim French Stepstool]

9 minutes ago, Oxy said:

If just ONE of Gilmore, Wahl or Crowl could shoot 35% from 3 point land the team might have won the conference (and they had stayed healthy).

The personnel next November is going to be interesting.  Gard will be evaluated next April.  I fully expect his seat cools back down to emeritus status from the "slightly warm" status it is right now.

It's all about recruiting though.  We've gotten precious few of our top targets the last 6 years...and occasionally we've gotten them they weren't the guy... or even A guy. This might not be a Gard issue but more of an assistant coach issue.

It'll have to be Crowl. And it's possible given his stroke his sophomore year. Big off-season for him. Yalden can shoot it, & I believe Winter can as well. At the beginning of next season I wouldn't be surprised if Gilmore is playing ahead at least one of the freshmen & there will be a few coronaries because of it. But Carter'll get passed at some point.

I think the staff was gut punched recruiting-wise when Lamont Parris left for Chattanooga. I talked to him briefly once & he just has "it". Very energetic, personable guy. Krabbenhoft seems to have pretty good connections in the TC area, and I believe Dean Oliver does too. 

Sharif Chambliss can earn some chops if he's able to secure Davion Hannah.