Brice Turang Hype

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, nate82 said:

Mostly just comparing him to Cirillo and Loretta offensively.  Defensively it is hard to find a comp for Turang.  Turner may actually be a good comp defensively for Turang.  Swanson is also another good comp but I am not sure Turang is as good defensively as Swanson. 

 

This is just asinine. 

Asinine? You gotta be kidding me…After the events of this past free agency in the shortstop market, the Brewers are highly likely to be dangling Adames in the off-season as he’ll have one year of control remaining. Turang’s development will put them in a better position to do so, as Turang can take over at SS. Please tell me, what’s asinine about that? 

[CheezWizHed]

I guess it depends on whether or not you think we can keep Adames?

If you think he is going to cost too much, Turang is the obvious replacement. He is projected to be above average defensively at SS and as his bat proves it is ready, one has to wonder which of the main 3 arbitration level players they will try to keep - if they can keep any (Adames, Burnes, or Woo). 

[wiguy94]

13 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Every time Turang gets on base is another step Willy takes out the door…

You can't make a comment like this after pushing back on people saying Turang should take Yelich's place in the order!

[nate82]

2 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Turang’s development will put them in a better position to do so, as Turang can take over at SS. Please tell me, what’s asinine about that? 

Nothing asinine about this but your previous statement is asinine.  The reason Adames would be traded has very little to do what Turang does this year and more about Adames only having 1-year left and the cost to extend him. 

[CheezWizHed]

4 minutes ago, nate82 said:

Nothing asinine about this but your previous statement is asinine.  The reason Adames would be traded has very little to do what Turang does this year and more about Adames only having 1-year left and the cost to extend him. 

Ok, that is a fair point... but having a ready to play backup does make it more likely he is traded when we could use the money to (potentially) sign someone else that doesn't have a backup (Woo/Burnes).  Even though signing any of the 3 is probably low.

It isn't TB where Adames was traded to make room for another player, but Turang being ready to step in at SS lessens the sting of trading Adames (at least on the field, not as a leader). 

[nate82]

3 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

Ok, that is a fair point... but having a ready to play backup does make it more likely he is traded when we could use the money to (potentially) sign someone else that doesn't have a backup (Woo/Burnes).  Even though signing any of the 3 is probably low.

It isn't TB where Adames was traded to make room for another player, but Turang being ready to step in at SS lessens the sting of trading Adames (at least on the field, not as a leader). 

Right the main reason Adames gets traded has less to do about Turang.  It lowers the sting of losing Adames but Turang doing whatever this year has very little to do with Adames being traded.  Turang isn't pushing Adames out the door but more Adames and his pending free agency is pushing Adames out the door. 

Adames and Woodruff are probably the most likely extension candidates. 

 

I really love Turang and think he will be a good SS but he is not pushing Adames out of SS right now. 

[Brewcrew82]

7 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

You can't make a comment like this after pushing back on people saying Turang should take Yelich's place in the order!

And why can’t I? One is a short-term perspective focused on winning ballgames on the present, while the other is oriented in the long-term in light of the Brewers stated strategy of remaining perpetually competitive.

Brewers can’t afford Willy at current market prices for a FA SS as established this offseason. I think we all pretty much realize this by now. With one year of control remaining after this season, the Brewers are already going to be highly incentivized to trade him, regardless of the replacement options. If Turang continues on this trajectory, the incentive will increase even more as the Brewers would have a proven high-quality, low-cost replacement at the ready while they try to remain competitive... 

On the other hand, you have person(s) demanding a lineup change as it relates to this season after a mere four games, when Yelich has proven to be an elite on-base threat and Turang remains a developing rookie. That’s what I believe to be best for winning games in the present, particularly when we’re already scoring runs in droves. You can be high on Turang in the future, while cautioning people to reel in expectations in the present and to let his development take its natural course. 
 

 

[Brewcrew82]

49 minutes ago, nate82 said:

Nothing asinine about this but your previous statement is asinine.  The reason Adames would be traded has very little to do what Turang does this year and more about Adames only having 1-year left and the cost to extend him. 

What’s asinine is to think that Turang’s development has little to no bearing on the Brewers’ decision to trade Adames in the off-season. As the team has stated many times, their goal is to be competitive on a yearly basis. You don’t think that Turang sucking would cause them to be a  more reticent about subtracting an All Star caliber SS from the club? In such a scenario, they could decide that it’s better to hold on to Adames for draft pick compensation in order to give more time for Turang to develop or to find alternative options while they continue to shoot for the playoffs. 

In addition, Turang’s development could decrease the motivation for them to pursue an extension for Willy at his likely price tag, in which case a trade becomes all but certain.

 

 

[Baldkin]

6 hours ago, Underachiever said:

You're a great poster, for sure. I'm gonna get carried away in the moment, but it is what keeps me invested. Hope is a beautiful thing.

One might even say, hope springs attorney. 

[nate82]

5 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

What’s asinine is to think that Turang’s development has zero bearing on the Brewers’  decision to trade Adames.

Very little is not the same thing as zero.

 

6 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

As the team has stated many times, their goal is to be competitive on a yearly basis. You don’t think that Turang sucking would cause them to be a little more reticent about subtracting an All Star caliber SS from the club? In such a scenario, they could decide that it’s better to hold on to Adames for draft pick compensation in order to give more time for Turang to develop or to find alternative options while they continue to shoot for the playoffs. 

Turang sucking wouldn't really have an impact on an extension for Adames either.  Turang's play has very little to do with the decision to trade or extend Adames.  The cost to extend Adames is the main driving point in a trade or an extension for Adames.  Turang's play is not going to change that.  Turang playing good is basically a bonus.  The Brewers could go with both Adames and Turang and just get draft picks for Adames also.  That is another scenario that is possible. 

Again Turang's production has very little to do with an extension or trade the main driver is the cost to extend Adames.

[homer]

[wiguy94]

Brice Turang leads the MLB in adjusted chase % at the moment.

[Brewcrew82]

20 minutes ago, nate82 said:

Very little is not the same thing as zero.

 

Turang sucking wouldn't really have an impact on an extension for Adames either.  Turang's play has very little to do with the decision to trade or extend Adames.  The cost to extend Adames is the main driving point in a trade or an extension for Adames.  Turang's play is not going to change that.  Turang playing good is basically a bonus.  The Brewers could go with both Adames and Turang and just get draft picks for Adames also.  That is another scenario that is possible. 

Again Turang's production has very little to do with an extension or trade the main driver is the cost to extend Adames.

That is asinine.

[CheezWizHed]

7 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Brice Turang leads the MLB in adjusted chase % at the moment.

How is xChase% (expected chase percentage) calculated?  Do they rate each pitch a player sees based on results of all players on similar pitches?? 

[wiguy94]

Turang also fairs very well when adjusting for quality of the pitcher.

[wiguy94]

Just now, CheezWizHed said:

How is xChase% (expected chase percentage) calculated?  Do they rate each pitch a player sees based on results of all players on similar pitches?? 

I'm guessing it is calculated by location/type of pitch. Basically this is saying that Turang has laid off some really good pitches which imo definitely passes what I the eye test has said. 

[CheezWizHed]

4 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

I'm guessing it is calculated by location/type of pitch. Basically this is saying that Turang has laid off some really good pitches which imo definitely passes what I the eye test has said. 

Yes, I was assuming the same.  Hoping someone can confirm. As a SW engineer, I'm amazed at the data collection and AI it would take to calculate such a metric (and many of the new metrics coming out). 

When will they apply these techniques to traffic patterns and fix something "real"? 😅

[wiguy94]

Just now, CheezWizHed said:

Yes, I was assuming the same.  Hoping someone can confirm. As a SW engineer, I'm amazed at the data collection and AI it would take to calculate such a metric (and many of the new metrics coming out). 

When will they apply these techniques to traffic patterns and fix something "real"? 😅

Talking to the person who tweeted those. Seems like the expected chase and run value numbers are based on stuff+, location+ and pitching+. Turang hasn't faced great stuff but the location he has faced has been very good which is why his expected chase% has been so high. The location being so good is also why the expected run value is low because the pitching+ is good despite the stuff+ being poor.

[Thurston Fluff]

1 hour ago, nate82 said:

Nothing asinine about this but your previous statement is asinine.  The reason Adames would be traded has very little to do what Turang does this year and more about Adames only having 1-year left and the cost to extend him. 

That assumes keeping him and letting him walk isn't an option. I could see the front office seeing that as a legitimate option even if I don't agree. I think Turang showing he can handle the job makes the chances of keeping Adames then letting him walk is less.

[homer]

Hi all, 

Maybe try a word other than "asinine". It's rather demeaning to the other person. Thanks.

[Jenkins5]

I think Black, Moore, Brown, Valerio all have a greater impact than Turang on Adames future. Turang obviously can slide over to replace Adames defensively however, think Brewers would like to see a real in house threat at 2B. If one of those guys blow up this year like Sal last year, or Weimer two years ago, think Brewers feel more comfortable on not paying Adames. No in house option & not retaining Wily just cost you financial or prospect capital to fill that void. 
 

I believe the numbers he wants in a contract are easily the most important & also seeing growth in his game. Personally, as it stands, I don’t much want to pay elite money for a .250 hitter who gets on base .310 while striking out 27% of the time because he has great impact potential. Let’s see him hit .280+ while getting on base consistently at .360+ clip, striking out closer to the 20-23% range. He has a lot of worth but now he’s hitting his prime years, love to see him take another step forward before paying him the contract I assume he is looking for.

[Redd Vencher]

If he turns into Cardinals Kolten Wong (94 wRC+ 2-3 WAR/season), that'll be a success. Anybody thinking he's Trae Turner is setting themselves up for disappointment.

[thebruce44]

48 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

Yes, I was assuming the same.  Hoping someone can confirm. As a SW engineer, I'm amazed at the data collection and AI it would take to calculate such a metric (and many of the new metrics coming out). 

When will they apply these techniques to traffic patterns and fix something "real"? 😅

Infrastructure improvements and intelligent traffic systems have  been viewed as a good fit for machine learning applications for a long time. The industry just tends to be resistant to change as funding / liability causes conservative approaches.

The really crazy thing to think about, IMO, is that a lot of MLB teams were probably looking at this data years before any of us had access to it.

[Brewcrew82]

57 minutes ago, Jenkins5 said:

I think Black, Moore, Brown, Valerio all have a greater impact than Turang on Adames future. Turang obviously can slide over to replace Adames defensively however, think Brewers would like to see a real in house threat at 2B. If one of those guys blow up this year like Sal last year, or Weimer two years ago, think Brewers feel more comfortable on not paying Adames. No in house option & not retaining Wily just cost you financial or prospect capital to fill that void. 
 

I believe the numbers he wants in a contract are easily the most important & also seeing growth in his game. Personally, as it stands, I don’t much want to pay elite money for a .250 hitter who gets on base .310 while striking out 27% of the time because he has great impact potential. Let’s see him hit .280+ while getting on base consistently at .360+ clip, striking out closer to the 20-23% range. He has a lot of worth but now he’s hitting his prime years, love to see him take another step forward before paying him the contract I assume he is looking for.

We also have Urias for 2B, too, FWIW.

[BallFour]

---

Turang did have the lowest chase rate in all of the minors if i remember his prospect writeup from fangraphs correctly. I guess how much upside you think he has depends on what school of thought you prefer. Is it easier to learn to swing at good pitches? Or is it easier to learn how to impact the ball more? Either way he has a nice floor with the game transitioning and valuing the skills he already is above average in.