Keston Hiura has a .984 OPS in Nashville

[rickh150]

6 hours ago, Jake McKibbin said:

Further to that, here's his Nashville stats since returning from injury (147 plate appearances)

 

.278/.394/.442 for an .836 OPS

 

The OBP is fuelled by Hit by pitches, having walked 12 times and been hit on 10 occasions

It's really two different conversations, and you can't really want to bring him up when he's not hitting like he can. When he's ready, absolutely, but currently he isn't (though again may be working round to it)

One positive is he's struck out still at just a 21% clip over this time.

I do think like Frelick the injury may still have niggled at him, but we saw Frelick find his form really quickly when he was injury free, and it could be the same for Keston

That being said, here's a few numbers for comparison

 

Jon Singleton .976 OPS

Jahmai Jones .932 OPS

Luken Baker - 1.162 OPS - Got 19 at bats this season with the Cardinals, despite all of their struggles, with a .563 OPS

Luke Voit 1.035 OPS

Jake Cave 1.113 OPS

 

Does highlight some of the quality of pitching this season at triple A, and how it's not necessarily a guarantee of success

 

difference with Hiura is that he actually played with Brewers last year….
Hiura .765, RHP .866, DH .949……numbers  we obviously need in our lineup.

[sveumrules]

13 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

difference with Hiura is that he actually played with Brewers last year….
Hiura .765, RHP .866, DH .949……numbers  we obviously need in our lineup.

Hiura's numbers last year are of limited relevance.

Last year Urias had a 739 OPS, this year it was 535
Last year Adames had a 756 OPS, this year it is 662
Last year Rowdy had a 767 OPS, this year it is 672
Last year Taylor had a 729 OPS, this year it is 539

If MLB teams thought Hiura's 2022 MLB numbers were representative of his true talent level (and not mostly small sample noise), he would have been claimed after ST or someone would have dealt for him before the deadline. He might even still be eligible for a trade under the same provision that Naquin was, though being on the 40 man during ST might disqualify him, not sure on the exact verbiage.

[Fear The Chorizo]

26 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Hiura's numbers last year are of limited relevance.

Last year Urias had a 739 OPS, this year it was 535
Last year Adames had a 756 OPS, this year it is 662
Last year Rowdy had a 767 OPS, this year it is 672
Last year Taylor had a 729 OPS, this year it is 539

If MLB teams thought Hiura's 2022 MLB numbers were representative of his true talent level (and not mostly small sample noise), he would have been claimed after ST or someone would have dealt for him before the deadline. He might even still be eligible for a trade under the same provision that Naquin was, though being on the 40 man during ST might disqualify him, not sure on the exact verbiage.

Well, the same can said of Hiura's #'s from 2021 and 2020 MLB seasons that spurred the inflated K rate arguments as justification to keep him out of Milwaukee - he's hitting over 0.300 for the season in AAA with a manageable K rate, and there's nothing in his stat line this season that suggests he wouldn't be a productive option at the MLB level right now.  That's why this thread has grown to 14 pages, because people have taken turns dissecting the difference between projected and actual production of multiple Brewers who have gotten more of an opportunity at the MLB level this season compared to Hiura, and to this point none of those arguments are convincing to posters who question why Hiura hasn't gotten any MLB ABs this season, either. 

Once again, teams don't just put random claims on DFA'd veterans making $2.2M at the end of spring training because they're all manipulating their own 40 man rosters the same way the Brewers try to do at the start of a season - Any teams interested in giving Hiura a change of scenery likely hoped he would simply be released and free to sign into any organization as a minor league free agent where he could get a fresh start and potentially earn a promotion back up to MLB while the Brewers still paid him his ~$2.2M salary for 2023.  That didn't happen.

From looking at the weird roster control/contract situation the Brewers may have with Hiura stemming from the shortened COVID MLB season, it seems to me that a significant reason why he hasn't yet been called up may have to do with the potential to find a way to maintain another year of control on him with a minor league deal at a reduced salary than what they're paying him this season to rake in AAA - I doubt things ever get to that point, because some rebuilding team will pick him up in the Rule V draft this offseason or Hiura will sign a contract to play in a different league. Either way, I think it's poor roster management on the Brewers' part related to Hiura when he could have contributed at the MLB level.  The fact this has been a recurring issue related to Hiura moreso than other Brewer hitters who have had extensive opportunities to do nothing offensively in the majors before the team opted to limit or remove playing time from them just amplifies people's opinions about it, too.  I've said it previously - I'll always root for the Brewers, but I'll always root for Hiura no matter where he winds up because I think he's gotten a raw deal.  I've long hoped he would get one more extended opportunity to prove he can be an everyday MLB DH for the Brewers, but I just don't see that happening to start 2024.

[BrewerFan]

12 hours ago, Jake McKibbin said:

I think it was @Mass Haaswho said something about because he was on the big league roster all of 2020, he cant elect minor league free agency next season as he would have been able to otherwise

As a result, the Brewers can keep him off their 40 man until next year and pay him $1.1 million

Once he's added to their 40 man this option will go however

Ahhh...THAT could make a lot of sense then. So they can give this guy half his salary, put him on the 40 and they'd have the ability to send him up and down?

If that's the case, that'd just...completely change the level of annoyance I have when I think about him in AAA.

That would make a lot more sense...I mean, it still doesn't seem like the confidence in Hiura overfloweth...ok.

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Hiura's numbers last year are of limited relevance.

Last year Urias had a 739 OPS, this year it was 535
Last year Adames had a 756 OPS, this year it is 662
Last year Rowdy had a 767 OPS, this year it is 672
Last year Taylor had a 729 OPS, this year it is 539

If MLB teams thought Hiura's 2022 MLB numbers were representative of his true talent level (and not mostly small sample noise), he would have been claimed after ST or someone would have dealt for him before the deadline. He might even still be eligible for a trade under the same provision that Naquin was, though being on the 40 man during ST might disqualify him, not sure on the exact verbiage.

Urias-Injured
Adames-Still playing everyday
Rowdy-Injured+still playing everyday when not on the IL(though still injured if you believe the forearm issue).
Taylor-Injured+still playing regularly

 

This argument would be exponentially more valid if the Brewers had given Hiura at bats and THEN he struggled, went down to AAA and people were asking why he's not getting ANOTHER chance. But that you just cited 4 players who the Brewers gave ample opportunity to seems to contradict the point you were making.

And you will I'm sure reply by citing the defensive versatility those players provide(sans Rowdy, but the other 3 are either versatile or in Willy's case, elite). And then I'd point out we're talking about having him DH or play 1B where Rowdy isn't exactly Keith Hernandez himself. 

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, rickh150 said:

I thought Hiura was picked on last year. This year, it is off the charts and gets worse daily.   Stubborn with Hiura and really poor… really bad on how the DH is used on a daily basis.  

Even Toro. What are they looking for? He hit…. like a 1.222 OPS in a week of ABs.  Send him back.

Adames is the golden child who has the clubhouse aura and CC hardly likes pulling him out of the cleanup. Don’t make this guy mad…. Oooh. 

I think you're a little off the mark with some of this.

I'm as big of a Hiura defender as there is on here, BUT we should keep in mind...he was bad in Sept. He got regular ABs and he struggled. It feels like a lot of people arguing against Hiura getting ABs aren't doing so in good faith, so lets be honest. He was hitting the ball HARD...when he hit it and he went into a prolonged slump. It's ALSO true that he was poorly handled when he was hitting well in that he'd be benched the day after a 2-4 with a big HR.

 

Toro...he has an exceptionally small sample size and a 3 hit game that I don't really think is all that significant. Who do you think we should have sent down instead of him?

Adames-He's a Gold Glove caliber SS, he's kinda the heart of the team and there's nobody close to pushing him at SS. And I say that as a fan who's much higher on Turang than most others(I've said I think he's a Trea Turner-ish type player). But then you're scrambling to fill 2B. You COULD put Monastario there with Anderson at 3B and Santana, but Adames has a history and has earned the chance to be in there everyday.

That said, they HAVE been sitting Willy more. I think he's just pressing, but I'd still start him everyday personally. 

I think you're connecting some things that aren't necessarily related.  

 

I also feel like questioning this puts you in the "anti-FO" group by some and they get a bit overly defensive(which is much why this is 14 pages long as those of us who want to see Hiura). The FO doesn't always get it right. They're not infallible. They make poor decisions. DFA Aguilar and Choi are two examples, but...just because they're generally run well doesn't mean they can't be wrong here or that you cant' question it. 

[rickh150]

3 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I think you're a little off the mark with some of this.

I'm as big of a Hiura defender as there is on here, BUT we should keep in mind...he was bad in Sept. He got regular ABs and he struggled. It feels like a lot of people arguing against Hiura getting ABs aren't doing so in good faith, so lets be honest. He was hitting the ball HARD...when he hit it and he went into a prolonged slump. It's ALSO true that he was poorly handled when he was hitting well in that he'd be benched the day after a 2-4 with a big HR.

 

Toro...he has an exceptionally small sample size and a 3 hit game that I don't really think is all that significant. Who do you think we should have sent down instead of him?

Adames-He's a Gold Glove caliber SS, he's kinda the heart of the team and there's nobody close to pushing him at SS. And I say that as a fan who's much higher on Turang than most others(I've said I think he's a Trea Turner-ish type player). But then you're scrambling to fill 2B. You COULD put Monastario there with Anderson at 3B and Santana, but Adames has a history and has earned the chance to be in there everyday.

That said, they HAVE been sitting Willy more. I think he's just pressing, but I'd still start him everyday personally. 

I think you're connecting some things that aren't necessarily related.  

 

I also feel like questioning this puts you in the "anti-FO" group by some and they get a bit overly defensive(which is much why this is 14 pages long as those of us who want to see Hiura). The FO doesn't always get it right. They're not infallible. They make poor decisions. DFA Aguilar and Choi are two examples, but...just because they're generally run well doesn't mean they can't be wrong here or that you cant' question it. 

Adames isn’t hitting. He hasn’t Yet he has played everyday batting third or fourth in our lineup. His OPS #s in May .547, June .613, July .735… and last 28 days .484. It took THAT LONG to pull him out of the middle of the lineup? I still don’t think they dare moving him  much lower in lineup in fear of offending him. Kind of a bad situation when a leader on your team is awful and undisciplined at the plate.

Who is sent down or cut for Toro? Oh the choices…Wiemer, Taylor, Perkins. Let the hitter hit at DH. If he does well, and he did, why change? That is normal. Do well and get more opportunities. 1.2 OPS screams let the guy hit until he cools off. 

I have low confidence in the team developing hitters. Only recent developments with Yelich and Hiura have given me hope this year. Otherwise, Urias, Adames, Taylor, Tellez, Yelich 20-21, Hiura 20-21… guys in their mid 20s have gotten noticeably worse in their primes. I have even lower confidence in how the DH role has been utilized this year. Random madness, sticking with slumping players for months too long, not playing the hot hand, using DH as a day to not rest a fourth OF. 
 

 

[rickh150]

This Hiura thread is just a small portion of the other Adames/Hiura thread from last year. It is obvious to some, most definitely not all, that Hiura deserves at least a shot to play a bunch here. Again, are we all thinking he is the next #3 hitting star? I don’t think anybody is. Yet, it would be a help to a team that cannot hit well. Low bar. Stick him at DH.

Really annoyed with company men who cannot think for themselves and just rely on what CC and Arnold do and make excuses for them EVERY step of the way. They each are having really good years, but the DH spot and roster management that more or less ignores DH as a good/hot hitter spot has been beyond bad. And there is no good defense of this. 

[rickh150]

Can’t wait until Tellez and Winker get back so we can get the popular lineup of #2 Winker, #3 Adames, and #4 Tellez  going again. This was so normal for what, 2-3 months? 

[yourout]

The addition of the DH has actually hurt the Brewers considerably.

It's made our starting pitching have to work harder while we get almost the same production we were getting when our pitchers were hitting.

I think the crews lead in the division would be bigger if the national league was still like it used to be without a DH.

[rickh150]

8 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Hiura's numbers last year are of limited relevance.

Last year Urias had a 739 OPS, this year it was 535
Last year Adames had a 756 OPS, this year it is 662
Last year Rowdy had a 767 OPS, this year it is 672
Last year Taylor had a 729 OPS, this year it is 539

If MLB teams thought Hiura's 2022 MLB numbers were representative of his true talent level (and not mostly small sample noise), he would have been claimed after ST or someone would have dealt for him before the deadline. He might even still be eligible for a trade under the same provision that Naquin was, though being on the 40 man during ST might disqualify him, not sure on the exact verbiage.

What does it matter to Hiura how those others hit this year? Since others are struggling, he probably will too? Is that the rationale?

The longer this goes, the more the craziness of the rationale gets for not bringing this guy up. Even those who fight against him tooth and nail in support of management’s decisions are pulling stiff out of the wind.

The whole argument of him not getting picked up after ST carries little weight.
Hiura was awful in ST and yes he did carry a guaranteed 2.2million contract to anyone who picked him up. He had no options and no great defensive spot. Why would a team crunching MLB rosters pick him up THEN? You didn’t even hear ME complaining about the Brewers letting him go initially. The big thing now is that he is hitting and that he has hit well in 2022, he had hit really great in 2019, and he destroys AAA pitching. The Brewers struggle with hitting at various positions and especially at DH.

Thus, all the logic and normal baseball prodigal would scream to let this guy get a shot in the majors. If he struggles over a say 3 week period…. And it should be this long considering Winker got 4 moths and Adames is our .200 hitting cleanup ongoing….let the guy go.

 

[rickh150]

17 minutes ago, yourout said:

The addition of the DH has actually hurt the Brewers considerably.

It's made our starting pitching have to work harder while we get almost the same production we were getting when our pitchers were hitting.

I think the crews lead in the division would be bigger if the national league was still like it used to be without a DH.

Most definitely… CC has been awful with the DH and we just have to own that. Picking a player out of the hat to hit each game there would be remarkably better.

[Baldkin]

1 hour ago, rickh150 said:

What does it matter to Hiura how those others hit this year? Since others are struggling, he probably will too? Is that the rationale?

The longer this goes, the more the craziness of the rationale gets for not bringing this guy up. Even those who fight against him tooth and nail in support of management’s decisions are pulling stiff out of the wind.

The whole argument of him not getting picked up after ST carries little weight.
Hiura was awful in ST and yes he did carry a guaranteed 2.2million contract to anyone who picked him up. He had no options and no great defensive spot. Why would a team crunching MLB rosters pick him up THEN? You didn’t even hear ME complaining about the Brewers letting him go initially. The big thing now is that he is hitting and that he has hit well in 2022, he had hit really great in 2019, and he destroys AAA pitching. The Brewers struggle with hitting at various positions and especially at DH.

Thus, all the logic and normal baseball prodigal would scream to let this guy get a shot in the majors. If he struggles over a say 3 week period…. And it should be this long considering Winker got 4 moths and Adames is our .200 hitting cleanup ongoing….let the guy go.

 

You're so confident of Hiura's skills. 

 

Over/under 1500 MLB hits in his career?

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, rickh150 said:

Adames isn’t hitting. He hasn’t Yet he has played everyday batting third or fourth in our lineup. His OPS #s in May .547, June .613, July .735… and last 28 days .484. It took THAT LONG to pull him out of the middle of the lineup? I still don’t think they dare moving him  much lower in lineup in fear of offending him. Kind of a bad situation when a leader on your team is awful and undisciplined at the plate.

Who is sent down or cut for Toro? Oh the choices…Wiemer, Taylor, Perkins. Let the hitter hit at DH. If he does well, and he did, why change? That is normal. Do well and get more opportunities. 1.2 OPS screams let the guy hit until he cools off. 

I have low confidence in the team developing hitters. Only recent developments with Yelich and Hiura have given me hope this year. Otherwise, Urias, Adames, Taylor, Tellez, Yelich 20-21, Hiura 20-21… guys in their mid 20s have gotten noticeably worse in their primes. I have even lower confidence in how the DH role has been utilized this year. Random madness, sticking with slumping players for months too long, not playing the hot hand, using DH as a day to not rest a fourth OF. 
 

 

1-I don't know what your deal with "offending" Adames is, but he's a SS who's got a history of being a power hitter. They sat him the day before you posted this and they sat him the day after.

2-Torro, this one is really strange. He has two good games with about 2 months between each other and you're talking about a tiny sample size. How do you send down a GG caliber CFer who's crushing lefties or really any OFer for him?

It's REALLY not worthy of nothing over 20 ABs, the last of which coming in a blowout vs a journeyman pitcher who only throws in blowouts, hasn't thrown since and was literally given away for future considerations.

Toro hasn't been a good hitter over the course of his career and his K's are up, BBs are down, his Exit Velocity is down to a career worst.

Again...I don't find any of those particularly important or relevant, but if you're going to use a 2 hit game in May and then a 3 hit game in June(which account for the majority of his hits this year...I guess it is relevant). 

 

3-I really don't know how to respond to the cherry picking of players X have gotten noticeably worse.

Adames got DRAMATICALLY better coming to Milwaukee. He's struggling this year.
Tellez was a part time player who's OPS jumped 200 points when he came to Milwaukee.
Urias was considered a bust, came to Milwaukee and had back to back 3+ WAR seasons(6.5 total) and this year he got hurt and couldn't move and they still flipped him for a starting pitcher.

Yelich-20-21? Ok, so did they suddenly figure something out this year?

Hiura gives you confidence, but it was their fault he struggled the previous two years? Last year we had the 6th best OPS in the NL. Our hitting was fine.

 

Tyrone Taylor? This is where this feels really intellectually dishonest...he hit fine the last couple years...well even...for a 4th or 5th OFer.

This year he's dealt with a relatively serious elbow injury he's playing through in addition to sporatic playing time and you think this is evidence they CAN'T develop hitters?

 

I'm sorry, this sounds ridiculous and I'M-AGREENG with you that we should see Hiura(though the argument that we get to retain him and he's not a MiLB FA and they can bring him back after this season certainly makes his lack of opportunities make a lot more sense. 

 

The Brewers have guys who have struggled with injuries this year or just struggled. 

What about Monastario? He's been an exceptional bat off the bench.
Frelick?
Turang has been improving quite a bit since he got here.
Contreras has handled the everyday catching duties and performed well. 

Yelich, again, can't blame the Brewers for his down years and then they don't get credit for a huge bounce back season. Do you not see how contradictory that is? Same with Hiura(which...I think it's silly to say he's proven anything other than he deserves a chance). 

 

I'm realizing this really doesn't have anything to do with Hiura(namely because you mention Adames far more than Hiura). 

I'm curious what they SHOULD be doing with Adames? 

 

It's really hard to keep track of your grievances beyond Hiura. 

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, Baldkin said:

You're so confident of Hiura's skills. 

 

Over/under 1500 MLB hits in his career?

Ok...literally NONE of that was "so confidence of Hiura's skills."

I don't agree with most of what he's arguing, but can we PLEASE stop with this intellectually dishonest posts...or posts where we just make up what the last person said?

Lets try what was ACTUALLY said;

2 hours ago, Baldkin said:

Thus, all the logic and normal baseball prodigal would scream to let this guy get a shot in the majors. If he struggles over a say 3 week period…. And it should be this long considering Winker got 4 moths and Adames is our .200 hitting cleanup ongoing….let the guy go.

 

4 hours ago, rickh150 said:

Again, are we all thinking he is the next #3 hitting star? I don’t think anybody is. Yet, it would be a help to a team that cannot hit well. Low bar. Stick him at DH.

And you read THAT to suggest he's;

2 hours ago, Baldkin said:

You're so confident of Hiura's skills. 

 

Over/under 1500 MLB hits in his career?

SOOO confident in his hitting ability, lets see if he can come close to Ryan Braun in career hits?

That is NOT what he was saying.

 

HE'S SAYING HE'S AN UPGRADE OVER WHAT WE'VE HAD AT DH. That he should have gotten a chance earlier when Winker was putting up a sub .600 OPS, when Tellez went two months with an OPS of ~.450. When we couldn't get ANY real production from 1B/DH and yet he's changed his stance in AAA, done everything that's been asked of him, has drawn the praise of the Brewers coaches and yet hasn't gotten a chance.

 

 

 

Bottom line, this is just getting silly. People are bending themselves into pretzels trying to do the "so what you're actually saying is," argument when what has been said re; Hiura has been very plain spoken.

Now the caveat that us fans may simply not understand save for Moose is that they plan to keep him as a MiLB Free Agent at 1.1M and then they'll have him on the roster next year cheaper and hopefully have a chance to reset his career in Milwaukee. 

But that's new information. The "Well Urias, Tellez, Adames, etc.... hit X last year so just because he hit well last year doesn't mean HIura will," is as silly an argument as how the words were twisted in this post.

Nobody has said he WILL hit better. They're simply pointing out

1-Brewers production at the positions he plays.
2-Hiura did hit well last year...despite OFTEN NOT being given the opportunity to come back and play the day following a walk off of a multi-hit day...while also not being allowed to hit vs RHPers and asked to hit LHPer when he has reverse splits.

3-He did what the Brewers have asked of him. He changed his stance, he's cleaned up his mechanics JUST like Yelich did and he's performed well in AAA.

 

It's all the more frustrating when you see the ABs they've given Voight, Brosseau, Tapia, Singleton, WINKER, Daniel Robertson(an equally terrible 2B), Billy McKinney, Sogard, Smoak, Saladino, Shaw, Schoop, Sogard again, ALL players who got multiple opportunities despite the majority having less success than Hiura. 

 

I really like the FO.  I think they're building the Brewers, particularly long term in the right way, but the rationalization sometimes jus gets to be a bit too often the top.

[rickh150]

4 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I'm curious what they SHOULD be doing with Adames? 

 

 

Start with sitting him, like they are almost unbelievably doing. In the Journal,Adames said he expected to play yesterday, by the way.

Hit him down in the lineup like they should have done last year, This is not a .800 OPS guy anymore.

[rickh150]

5 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

1-I don't know what your deal with "offending" Adames is, but he's a SS who's got a history of being a power hitter. They sat him the day before you posted this and they sat him the day after.

2-Torro, this one is really strange. He has two good games with about 2 months between each other and you're talking about a tiny sample size. How do you send down a GG caliber CFer who's crushing lefties or really any OFer for him?

It's REALLY not worthy of nothing over 20 ABs, the last of which coming in a blowout vs a journeyman pitcher who only throws in blowouts, hasn't thrown since and was literally given away for future considerations.

Toro hasn't been a good hitter over the course of his career and his K's are up, BBs are down, his Exit Velocity is down to a career worst.

Again...I don't find any of those particularly important or relevant, but if you're going to use a 2 hit game in May and then a 3 hit game in June(which account for the majority of his hits this year...I guess it is relevant). 

 

3-I really don't know how to respond to the cherry picking of players X have gotten noticeably worse.

Adames got DRAMATICALLY better coming to Milwaukee. He's struggling this year.
Tellez was a part time player who's OPS jumped 200 points when he came to Milwaukee.
Urias was considered a bust, came to Milwaukee and had back to back 3+ WAR seasons(6.5 total) and this year he got hurt and couldn't move and they still flipped him for a starting pitcher.

Yelich-20-21? Ok, so did they suddenly figure something out this year?

Hiura gives you confidence, but it was their fault he struggled the previous two years? Last year we had the 6th best OPS in the NL. Our hitting was fine.

 

Tyrone Taylor? This is where this feels really intellectually dishonest...he hit fine the last couple years...well even...for a 4th or 5th OFer.

This year he's dealt with a relatively serious elbow injury he's playing through in addition to sporatic playing time and you think this is evidence they CAN'T develop hitters?

 

I'm sorry, this sounds ridiculous and I'M-AGREENG with you that we should see Hiura(though the argument that we get to retain him and he's not a MiLB FA and they can bring him back after this season certainly makes his lack of opportunities make a lot more sense. 

 

The Brewers have guys who have struggled with injuries this year or just struggled. 

What about Monastario? He's been an exceptional bat off the bench.
Frelick?
Turang has been improving quite a bit since he got here.
Contreras has handled the everyday catching duties and performed well. 

Yelich, again, can't blame the Brewers for his down years and then they don't get credit for a huge bounce back season. Do you not see how contradictory that is? Same with Hiura(which...I think it's silly to say he's proven anything other than he deserves a chance). 

 

I'm realizing this really doesn't have anything to do with Hiura(namely because you mention Adames far more than Hiura). 

I'm curious what they SHOULD be doing with Adames? 

 

It's really hard to keep track of your grievances beyond Hiura. 

1. Adames is used to being king of the clubhouse and play everyday. This has to be hard on him. He has gotten the benefit of the doubt for a long time at the top of the order. He should range between #6-9.

2.Toro was actually on fire at Nashville and his overall #s were very good here. Play him until he doesn’t do well. Aren’t we desperately looking for MLB production and not just belief in who we THINK is a hitter and who isn’t. Play the production. KIsS… keep it simple, stupid (just a saying, not offensive, please).

3. Not cherry picking… my listed guys at MLB level for last three years have not improved at MLB level with prolonged coaching. These are the guys we have had as hitters for last few years.  Glad they did better in year 2021 when given some regular at bats, but it has been slide City since. Yelich and Hiura give me hope, however.

OPS 2021/2022/2023

Adames .818/.756/.662

Tellez 814/.767/.672

Taylor .778/729/.523

Urias slumped to the minors and was traded. 
 

 

 

 

 

[TURBO]

17 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I'll always root for the Brewers, but I'll always root for Hiura no matter where he winds up because I think he's gotten a raw deal.  I've long hoped he would get one more extended opportunity to prove he can be an everyday MLB DH for the Brewers, but I just don't see that happening to start 2024.

This, and agreed 100%.

Just makes no sense.

[rickh150]

Just now, TURBO said:

This, and agreed 100%.

Just makes no sense.

Here, here…

[rickh150]

Just now, rickh150 said:

Here, here…

2-5 last night

[Samurai Bucky]

12 hours ago, rickh150 said:

Only recent developments with Yelich...

I recall a large segment of people calling for Yelich to be benched / replaced last year. 

[rickh150]

2 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

I recall a large segment of people calling for Yelich to be benched / replaced last year. 

What does this have to do with Hiura and the DH?

[Samurai Bucky]

2 hours ago, rickh150 said:

What does this have to do with Hiura and the DH?

Great question.  Here is a comment that was made:

On 8/8/2023 at 1:50 PM, rickh150 said:

Adames is the golden child who has the clubhouse aura and CC hardly likes pulling him out of the cleanup. Don’t make this guy mad…. Oooh. 

This, and in other comments, it was pointed out that Adames is performing poorly.  @sveumrules also outlined:

On 8/8/2023 at 2:51 PM, sveumrules said:

Hiura's numbers last year are of limited relevance.

Last year Urias had a 739 OPS, this year it was 535
Last year Adames had a 756 OPS, this year it is 662
Last year Rowdy had a 767 OPS, this year it is 672
Last year Taylor had a 729 OPS, this year it is 539

If MLB teams thought Hiura's 2022 MLB numbers were representative of his true talent level (and not mostly small sample noise), he would have been claimed after ST or someone would have dealt for him before the deadline. He might even still be eligible for a trade under the same provision that Naquin was, though being on the 40 man during ST might disqualify him, not sure on the exact verbiage.

With that context, you mentioned that recent developments with Yelich , along with Hiura, have given you hope this year.  Last year, and the year prior, people were making similar comments about Yelich and rightfully so.  If the Brewers would have cast Yelich aside, like is being suggested with Adames, how would that have turned out?

Please keep in mind that a scant 10 or so pages ago, I agreed with you -- Hiura should get a chance.  Will his AAA numbers necessarily carry over to the MLB?  Probably not, but at least give him the chance.  Why hasn't he been given a chance?  I'm not sure, but I am confident the lack of options is involved.  Maybe he isn't a good clubhouse guy.  Maybe he called Counsell a bad name?  Maybe they were frustrated when Hiura closed out July 5 for 26?  We don't know.

[Brewcrew82]

8 hours ago, rickh150 said:

2-5 last night

Pointing out every time Hiura has a good game in AAA is of such limited relevance. Luke Voit is OPSing over 1.000 right now, for example.

They may or may not call him up. Looking like not at this point. And Hiura did have a .765 OPS last year. But that comes with the huge caveat of a 40% strike out rate, which is completely unsustainable. The two prior years, they handed Hiura the starting 1st/2nd base gigs, and he was a below replacement level player both years. That's how he ended up in this limbo to begin with (as well as being so horrific in ST to the point where they had to remove him from the 40 man). 

Your "go to" when someone points out the limited relevance of his AAA stats seems to be to point out Hiura's OPS last year and compare that to Adames. Except Adames and Hiura are not comparable as one plays GG-caliber defense at a premium position and the other doesn't play defense at all. Adames was even benched the last two days and has been moved down from 2nd in the order to 3rd in the order and now down to 5th. I don't see why he won't continue to fall in the order if he keeps this up. But he'll stay in the lineup for now because he has the defense to fall back on and a track record that spans his entire career. Hiura doesn't have that, with his track record of being a replacement to below replacement level player. 

You know who had a .767 OPS last year? Rowdy Tellez. That's who you should really compare Keston to. And Rowdy's OPS was over a much larger sample size than Keston's. He's obviously been below that this year, but he was also battling through injury. He's going to get the chance to DH against RHP within the next week when he comes off the IL because he's been better as a hitter than Hiura with the Brewers. If Tellez continues to falter, then you'll really have an argument. 

But what's clearly been hurting Keston to this point his lack of defensive versatility/ability. That's a killer for a team so heavily geared towards run prevention as the Brewers are. CC likes to have the flexibility to rotate guys, which makes a DH-only roster spot for Hiura a tenuous proposition. Winker only got his spot because they traded for him, and he had a lengthy track record of being an above-average to elite hitter every season of his career until 2022. 

[rickh150]

I am comparing Adames/Hiura order in the lineup and place in this organization. It can be compared, and it is opposite ends of the spectrum (a two game sit bumped Adames down a bit).

And DH does not play a position. 
And Luke Voit does not have an OPS over 1.00. It’s .925 at AAA in 27 ABs. And this is after he had a shot on Brewers this season……74 PA and .548 OPS…not comparable with Hiura.