Angels Acquire Lucas Giolito and Reynaldo Lopez from White Sox

[Brewcrew82]

The first blockbuster of the trade deadline has just gone down. Suffice to say, Ohtani is definitely not getting traded now. 

 

[Brewcrew82]

Angels just gave away their top two prospects currently in the minors for two rentals. They better make the playoffs and/or resign Ohtani, or they're going to be in a lot of trouble organizationally, particularly if Trout keeps on missing months at a time. 

[wiguy94]

Angels are such a weird franchise. 

Edgar Quero is a poor man's version of Jeferson Quero. Better hit tool but hasn't shown power at AA yet and he's nowhere near the defender Jeferson Quero is behind the plate.

Ky Bush is like a LH version of Janson Junk with the command not quite as good. Questionable FB, quality secondaries, 

[Brewcrew82]

4 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Angels are such a weird franchise. 

Edgar Quero is a poor man's version of Jeferson Quero. Better hit tool but hasn't shown power at AA yet and he's nowhere near the defender Jeferson Quero is behind the plate.

Ky Bush is like a LH version of Janson Junk with the command not quite as good. Questionable FB, quality secondaries, 

Right. I'm not particularly high on those prospects either. But that's the best they've got in the minors right now and they just gave em away for two rentals, who I doubt move the needle in the AL playoff race. Most likely scenario is that Angels miss the playoffs, lose Ohtani for nothing, and then are in a huge mess organizationally with Trout and Rendon's contracts on their books and little in the way of young talent other than O'Hoppe and Neto. 

[CheeseheadInQC]

So the White Sox got the second best 20-year-old catcher with the last name Quero?

[KeithStone53151]

4 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Angels are such a weird franchise. 

Edgar Quero is a poor man's version of Jeferson Quero. Better hit tool but hasn't shown power at AA yet and he's nowhere near the defender Jeferson Quero is behind the plate.

Ky Bush is like a LH version of Janson Junk with the command not quite as good. Questionable FB, quality secondaries, 

The angels continually empty anything of value out of their farm. Either guys with talent sprint to the majors, or get traded. So without looking I'll go ahead and assume their farm is mediocre at best, more likely bottom 5.

I'm honestly disappointed to not find out how much an ohtani rental would cost. I was expecting it to be like nothing we've ever seen, like literally more value than chourio going to the angels(not from us). Oh well, maybe in 75 years there will be another guy like ohtani

[wiguy94]

2 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

The angels continually empty anything of value out of their farm. Either guys with talent sprint to the majors, or get traded. So without looking I'll go ahead and assume their farm is mediocre at best, more likely bottom 5.

I'm honestly disappointed to not find out how much an ohtani rental would cost. I was expecting it to be like nothing we've ever seen, like literally more value than chourio going to the angels(not from us). Oh well, maybe in 75 years there will be another guy like ohtani

Fangraphs has their farm 29th at a valuation of $101M. 

[wiguy94]

12 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Right. I'm not particularly high on those prospects either. But that's the best they've got in the minors right now and they just gave em away for two rentals, who I doubt move the needle in the AL playoff race. Most likely scenario is that Angels miss the playoffs, lose Ohtani for nothing, and then are in a huge mess organizationally with Trout and Rendon's contracts on their books and little in the way of young talent other than O'Hoppe and Neto. 

Yeah the Los Angeles Angels should be a great indicator that bigger payrolls don't mean better teams/better organizations. That franchise is a disaster and if Ohtani leaves this offseason it's going to get really ugly for them longterm.

[Brewcrew82]

FWIW....

[wiguy94]

13 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

FWIW....

Those values for Quero and Bush shows how underrated some of our prospects are on BTV or how overrated Quero and Bush are 

[Jake McKibbin]

Yeah, Jeferson has vastly outperformed Edgar for starters this season. Do the Angels have any actual prospect capital left? Seems the farm may be as ransacked as the Padres

[igor67]

If there was that little on the farm for the Angels getting a solid rotation arm and another bullpen guy seems reasonable. It's not like those 2 prospects would turn the near future of the team around on their own. The only hope in the near term is to either spend their way out of the situation in the offseason or just let it all go. If that doesn't work I don't see Trout bring back enough in a trade either to do much for a rebuild..

[wiguy94]

4 hours ago, Jake McKibbin said:

Yeah, Jeferson has vastly outperformed Edgar for starters this season. Do the Angels have any actual prospect capital left? Seems the farm may be as ransacked as the Padres

Their farm at the moment is definitely worse than the Padres was after the trade last year and certainly more ransacked now (Ethan Salas alone makes the Padres farm somewhat respectable)

[Jopal78]

… or maybe because of expanded playoffs and a couple weak divisions there’s only about 8-9 teams really looking to trade off their veterans so it’s a seller’s market.

According to MLB, Edgar Quero was #65 (the Brewers Quero is #72), and the Angels had to include another player with potential to net a good but not great starting rental pitcher and a middle reliever. 
 

Now couple that with Matt Arnold‘s comments about “buying responsibly” and “improvement from within” it could very well be a quiet deadline for Milwaukee. 

[CheeseheadInQC]

As soon as they decided to keep Ohtani, the Angels were always going to be the team most likely to pay big for a rental.

[Jake McKibbin]

2 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

… or maybe because of expanded playoffs and a couple weak divisions there’s only about 8-9 teams really looking to trade off their veterans so it’s a seller’s market.

According to MLB, Edgar Quero was #65 (the Brewers Quero is #72), and the Angels had to include another player with potential to net a good but not great starting rental pitcher and a middle reliever. 
 

Now couple that with Matt Arnold‘s comments about “buying responsibly” and “improvement from within” it could very well be a quiet deadline for Milwaukee. 

I think it's fair to say though Jeferson has performed consistently better than Edgar Quero this season with the jump to A ball, although Edgar has a good walk rate. Its a .718 OPS with minimal 3 home runs compared to an .871 OPS with 13 home runs, and I'm assuming due to his quality there, even better defensively so MLB rankings likely just to be updatd, or over doing it on Edgar's High A stats from last season

The No .3 Angels prospect has had an awful year, 5.88 ERA in double A and just hasn't looked anything like the pitcher he was at the same level last year

[wibadgers23]

Is the 12 team playoff format killing the trade deadline? There are now less sellers, higher prices and less transactions. I can’t remember back to last year on the number of major trades and just trades overall.

[Jake McKibbin]

3 minutes ago, wibadgers23 said:

Is the 12 team playoff format killing the trade deadline? There are now less sellers, higher prices and less transactions. I can’t remember back to last year on the number of major trades and just trades overall.

To be fair, this might actually enhance overall competitiveness, and makes rebuilds faster if you do sell.

One thing I like is that playing all the better teams pre deadline, and the poor ones after could be a huge difference, and it's still an advantage but not so much as before. The worst thing is a baseball game where the front office hope to lose, or are apathetic to winning

[LouisEly]

14 minutes ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

As soon as they decided to keep Ohtani, the Angels were always going to be the team most likely to pay big for a rental.

This.  No way they stand pat - it's either trade Ohtani or be buyers.

[jerichoholicninja]

Angels giving the Rockies a run for their money for worst run organization in sports. Ohtani will go somewhere else in the offseason and in response they'll give out another big money, long term deal to a player who will crater and be injured for the next half decade.

[brewcrewdue80]

Ah Lucas Giolito. Remember that time he was but the next Stephen Strasburg. Never occurred. Looks like the Angel's believe he can ne still with what they gave up for him. Keep in mind the trade puts Angel's over the luxury tax. Which reduces their QO return when Ohtani signs away to a new team.  

[Baldkin]

23 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Angels giving the Rockies a run for their money for worst run organization in sports. Ohtani will go somewhere else in the offseason and in response they'll give out another big money, long term deal to a player who will crater and be injured for the next half decade.

I mean, the Angels didn't trade a franchise favorite player, pay half his salary then sign a worse player at the same position for more money....

[Jopal78]

31 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Angels giving the Rockies a run for their money for worst run organization in sports. Ohtani will go somewhere else in the offseason and in response they'll give out another big money, long term deal to a player who will crater and be injured for the next half decade.

That’s a bold statement I don’t even think either of those two are the worst run in baseball (Athletics) let alone sports.

There was a thread on this over the off season. Arte Moreno maybe is too patient  keeping Scioscia around for too long.
 

Outside of Trout, the GMs he hired haven’t done well enough developing players from within, they’re certainly not along in that regard. And like most big money clubs they’ve had their share of high priced free agents flops. 

Yet to their credit, the Angels haven’t finished last in their Division since 1999, they have lost 90 games or more just twice in the last 24 seasons. (By comparison in the same span the Brewers have had three last place finishes and 5 seasons with 90 or more losses, the Mets have had two last place finishes and lost 90 or more games four times). 
 

Because the floor is higher yet the ceiling has been lower, does that make them a poorly run team?
 

 

 

 

[Jopal78]

25 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Ah Lucas Giolito. Remember that time he was but the next Stephen Strasburg. Never occurred. Looks like the Angel's believe he can ne still with what they gave up for him. Keep in mind the trade puts Angel's over the luxury tax. Which reduces their QO return when Ohtani signs away to a new team.  

Yep,Giolito serves as a reminder on prospect hype.

When he debuted he was MLB’s #3 prospect. Baseball Prospectus had him #3 and Baseball America had him #5, 

[KeithStone53151]

1 hour ago, Jake McKibbin said:

To be fair, this might actually enhance overall competitiveness, and makes rebuilds faster if you do sell.

One thing I like is that playing all the better teams pre deadline, and the poor ones after could be a huge difference, and it's still an advantage but not so much as before. The worst thing is a baseball game where the front office hope to lose, or are apathetic to winning

This is a good point and I'll add to it. The last 2 months of the season used to be quite boring when every seller punted everyone and half of the teams lost 75-80% of games to the teams still trying to win. It's better for baseball to have at least 18 teams or so still trying to win in August/September vs 12-14.