Heyman on CC (Will Craig Counsell be the Brewer manager next year?)

[brewers888]

22 minutes ago, Axman59 said:

There's a reason CC has not signed a new contract with the Brewers and it's not because he wanted to contemplate retirement. He easily could have signed a new contract and then retired if he decided that's what he wanted to do.

He wanted to be free and clear of any contract with the Brewers so he could see if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. And while there's not a lot of grass in Queens, there is a lot of green. As in money. If Steve Cohen wants CC to manage the Mets it's going to happen.

 

I think its a done deal just as I thought Stearns was a done deal as soon as he was contractually free.

[brewers888]

Something tells me that Counsell and Attanasio don't have the greatest of relationships and that Counsell wants out. Stearns always wanted to go back home but this is home for Counsell and it seems like he can't wait to leave.

[BrewerFan]

6 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

I think its a done deal just as I thought Stearns was a done deal as soon as he was contractually free.

Yeah...AGAIN, this wasn't some great insight you had. The Mets asked for permission THREE times. Stop acting like you had this great foresight that nobody else did. 

https://www.mlb.com/news/mets-request-on-david-stearns-denied-by-brewers

 

All you did was add a ridiculous level of conspiratorial nonsense about how Stearns was working against the Brewers and colluding with Eppler at the end of last year. You want credit for a take, that's the one you had before everyone else...and probably for good reason. 

[torts]

You think sterns wants a coach who is 7-12 in the playoffs and having not one more than a game since 2018?  I don't.  He's going to get someone with pedigree to win.  Counsell may get interviews but he doesn't get it and he'll be back in Milwaukee 

[MrTPlush]

After the last two days, I really don’t care if he leaves. It was a great ride Stearns/Counsell. However, it equated to zero postseason success. Year after year of flops. Time to try and see if something else can make it happen.

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, torts said:

You think sterns wants a coach who is 7-12 in the playoffs and having not one more than a game since 2018?  I don't.  He's going to get someone with pedigree to win.  Counsell may get interviews but he doesn't get it and he'll be back in Milwaukee 

On the other hand, Counsell was handed a roster consisting of nearly all below league average hitters, and a bullpen with mostly castoffs and minimum salary guys, had his star pitching rotation gutted for most of the year yet managed that group to 92 wins. Pretty enticing achievement.

He probably leaves one way or the other due to lack of interest in presiding over another rebuild and/or money. 

[RightFieldCoder]

9 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

I still think that's the mold the Crew is going to draw from. I'd like to see an innovative hire. Someone a little off-the-map. Someone who's young but maybe not necessarily a former player.

RightFieldCoder is available could probably be gotten for a million or two.

 

I'd put that in blue but there is no sarcasm in being available for seven figures.

[liveforoctober]

15 minutes ago, RightFieldCoder said:

RightFieldCoder is available could probably be gotten for a million or two.

 

I'd put that in blue but there is no sarcasm in being available for seven figures.

Heck if we are posting resumes Id do it for $1/4mil and a daily food stipend. I'd also post a poll every morning on this site asking for lineup suggestions. We would be a community run organization.

[SeaBass]

Yeah, still not buying the "Counsell wants the money, therefore Mets" line of thinking. The Mets are not the only team in baseball that can pay him. The Mets are not the only team in baseball that can pay big money to free agent players.

This is about relationships. So if it is the Mets, Stearns has to be a big factor. I'm still not sure that's enough for him to be so predisposed to the Mets that's it's a done deal. None of us know to what extent CC and Stearns are friends. Maybe they're really good friends, maybe they call each other late at night and watch Casablanca together over the phone until they fall asleep and we've simply not heard about it. If their friendship is strong in a way we don't know then yeah, the Mets could be the easy #1 on his list

The other side of this a lot of us have been talking about is the Attanasio factor. It would be a big issue if CC is not loving the owner as much as maybe he used to or the limitations in payroll that come with the Milwaukee market. Nobody has really speculated much about Arnold being a factor though. Maybe CC doesn't vibe with him as much for whatever reason and would rather get a feel for another club. Maybe he just liked Stearns more but not necessarily to the point where he's looking for a reunion.

The Mets are the easy and obvious choice for all the reasons everybody has been saying. If he leaves Milwaukee the Mets are the frontrunner until they're not. There are just so many other ways this can go and there could be factors nobody has even thought of behind his decision.

[jerichoholicninja]

Stearns didn't hire Counsell. Interestingly, Stearns has actually never hired a manager. If David has any sort of an ego I would think he wouldn't want to hire Craig. He would want to find his own guy. And considering some of the aging, has been and never was crap players that Stearns would routinely saddle Craig with I wouldn't be surprised if he really isn't interested in working for him. If Counsell isn't back in Milwaukee I'm still putting my money on Cleveland.

[MrTPlush]

Has anyone ever considered that Craig Counsell may not even like Stearns?

[brewers888]

Counsell will be the highest paid manager in the game and have access to the highest payroll as well. Of course he will have to live in New York but with the money he will be getting paid he can avoid most of what makes New York a horrible place to be.

[brewers888]

39 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Has anyone ever considered that Craig Counsell may not even like Stearns?

No but there was a rumor in one of the threads about him not getting along with Arnold. I think its all about money and the opportunity to win with an owner willing to spend whatever it takes. I'm sure it would mean more to him to win in Milwaukee but he probably feels he's maxed out what this team can do given its extreme financial limitations.

[nate82]

4 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

No but there was a rumor in one of the threads about him not getting along with Arnold.

This is completely 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% false.  Arnold and Counsell are good friends in fact early in the morning in Whitefish Bay you can see them taking walks together and discussing baseball.  That doesn't sound like they don't get along with each other. 

https://www.mlb.com/news/craig-counsell-matt-arnold-work-in-step

There are more articles about Counsell's and Arnold's friendship than there is of there being him not getting along with Arnold.

I am not sure why everyone is saying the Mets and the Mets are the only team in baseball that will pay big money for a manager.  Currently the highest paid manager is only paid about $6m a season with not the Yankees and not the Mets oh wait it is the Dodgers....... Wait are the Dodgers still in Brooklyn?  I think they play in Los Angeles now?  Anyways your right the only place that will pay a large amount is New York.  The Mets only paid Showalter $3.5m wait that has to be typo because we all know Cohan overpays for everything! The real number was $30.5m!!!!! It must be the lying press because we all know Cohan overpays whenever he can!

Seriously?  You don't believe the Giants, Blue Jays or the White Sox won't pay top dollar for a manager because??? Just because someone can outspend doesn't mean they will.  I also don't believe money is the driving point for Counsell I think being in contention for a WS is the driving point for Counsell and the way the Mets are currently constructed with no starting pitching and an aging core is not that appealing even at $10-15m a year if your goal is to be contending for a WS.  I don't believe Counsell will want to be on a rebuild which I think is what Stearns is going to do with the Mets.  He is going to go out and get the players he wants and I wouldn't be surprised if Stearns shakes up the whole roster by trading some of the vets on that team though I am not sure he will be able to get much for Lindor. 

For WS aspirations the Blue Jays make the most sense.  They have under performed offensively with the talent they have with Vlad, Bichette and others.  Toronto is also not afraid of giving out big contracts so hiring Counsell to a hefty contract to be their manager wouldn't be surprising at all.  Toronto is also very similar to what the Brewers have now though with more talented hitters.  The Giants are also another team that wouldn't be afraid of spending money on Counsell or on the team either as they are rumored to be a team willing to spend on Ohtani this off season. 

The Blue Jays should probably be the favorites if they let go of their current manager for Counsell as the team would be willing to spend both on players to improve their team and on a manager to get them over the hump in the playoffs. 

[RobertCrawley]

3 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

After the last two days, I really don’t care if he leaves. It was a great ride Stearns/Counsell. However, it equated to zero postseason success. Year after year of flops. Time to try and see if something else can make it happen.

Some of us remember what it was like before those two guys ran the outfit.

[MrTPlush]

1 minute ago, RobertCrawley said:

Some of us remember what it was like before those two guys ran the outfit.

So do I, them leaving doesn't mean you go back to that. 

[RobertCrawley]

2 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

So do I, them leaving doesn't mean you go back to that. 

I sure hope not. I'd hate to be mid pack/lower pack again for the next 10 years.

The only silver lining is you can get seats behind home plate in September for $15 when your team is terrible.

[RobertCrawley]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

Counsell will be the highest paid manager in the game and have access to the highest payroll as well. Of course he will have to live in New York but with the money he will be getting paid he can avoid most of what makes New York a horrible place to be.

I'm guessing he'll live in Connecticut or Jersey.

[MrTPlush]

4 minutes ago, RobertCrawley said:

I sure hope not. I'd hate to be mid pack/lower pack again for the next 10 years.

The only silver lining is you can get seats behind home plate in September for $15 when your team is terrible.

Well we have the same owner that brought them both in. Our current GM was Stearns’ sidekick for almost a decade…so Arnold could probably pass off as Stearns at Christmas time he could be so similar.

The Brewers shouldn’t fall off a cliff. The real hurt is losing two of the best starters in the game. We have quite a pile of hitters ready to hit the MLB roster though, so that could be a nice change.

 

[brewers888]

27 minutes ago, nate82 said:

This is completely 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% false.  Arnold and Counsell are good friends in fact early in the morning in Whitefish Bay you can see them taking walks together and discussing baseball.  That doesn't sound like they don't get along with each other. 

https://www.mlb.com/news/craig-counsell-matt-arnold-work-in-step

There are more articles about Counsell's and Arnold's friendship than there is of there being him not getting along with Arnold.

I am not sure why everyone is saying the Mets and the Mets are the only team in baseball that will pay big money for a manager.  Currently the highest paid manager is only paid about $6m a season with not the Yankees and not the Mets oh wait it is the Dodgers....... Wait are the Dodgers still in Brooklyn?  I think they play in Los Angeles now?  Anyways your right the only place that will pay a large amount is New York.  The Mets only paid Showalter $3.5m wait that has to be typo because we all know Cohan overpays for everything! The real number was $30.5m!!!!! It must be the lying press because we all know Cohan overpays whenever he can!

Seriously?  You don't believe the Giants, Blue Jays or the White Sox won't pay top dollar for a manager because??? Just because someone can outspend doesn't mean they will.  I also don't believe money is the driving point for Counsell I think being in contention for a WS is the driving point for Counsell and the way the Mets are currently constructed with no starting pitching and an aging core is not that appealing even at $10-15m a year if your goal is to be contending for a WS.  I don't believe Counsell will want to be on a rebuild which I think is what Stearns is going to do with the Mets.  He is going to go out and get the players he wants and I wouldn't be surprised if Stearns shakes up the whole roster by trading some of the vets on that team though I am not sure he will be able to get much for Lindor. 

For WS aspirations the Blue Jays make the most sense.  They have under performed offensively with the talent they have with Vlad, Bichette and others.  Toronto is also not afraid of giving out big contracts so hiring Counsell to a hefty contract to be their manager wouldn't be surprising at all.  Toronto is also very similar to what the Brewers have now though with more talented hitters.  The Giants are also another team that wouldn't be afraid of spending money on Counsell or on the team either as they are rumored to be a team willing to spend on Ohtani this off season. 

The Blue Jays should probably be the favorites if they let go of their current manager for Counsell as the team would be willing to spend both on players to improve their team and on a manager to get them over the hump in the playoffs. 

Weren't you the one that predicted Stearns to the Yankees because that was about as correct as any Counsell to Toronto rumors. He is either staying with the Brewers or going to the Mets.

[nate82]

Just now, brewers888 said:

Weren't you the one that predicted Stearns to the Yankees because that was about as correct as any Counsell to Toronto rumors. He is either staying with the Brewers or going to the Mets.

I said if the Yankees job became available that he would probably take the Yankees job over the Mets.  The Yankees job never became available so we will never know if he would have taken it over the Mets job.  The Yankees could pay the same as the Mets or even more as they have countless number of times in the past. 

[brewers888]

4 minutes ago, nate82 said:

I said if the Yankees job became available that he would probably take the Yankees job over the Mets.  The Yankees job never became available so we will never know if he would have taken it over the Mets job.  The Yankees could pay the same as the Mets or even more as they have countless number of times in the past. 

These Steinbrenners are not like George and will not be paying a GM anywhere near the 15 million per year that Cohen gave Stearns. 

[homer]

Grass is always greener. Brewers have had one losing season from 2017 through this year and that was the weird Covid year. They've made the post-season 5 times in that time span. There are only a handful of other teams that have been as successful as that. The teams have won in different ways too - this year was pitching and defense, 2018 was offense and bullpen. They've taken players off the scrap heap and turned them into productive major leaguers. How much of all that is coaching and how much is front office is up for debate but we have a good thing going even if the post-season success hasn't been there. 

[treego14]

Counsell lost his mind in the 2023 playoffs ...

(1) Winker on the roster AND Winker used in both games!  INEXCUSABLE!  No Tellez?  JOKE!

(2) Monasterio benched for both playoff games!  INEXCUSABLE!

(3) Love affair with Brice Turang (even against lefties)!  INEXCUSABLE!

(4) Love affair with old Josh Donaldson!  INEXCUSABLE!

(5) Having Frelick in against lefties in critical situation(s)!  INEXCUSABLE!  Where's Caratini?  Where's Perkins?  Where's Miller?

(6) Not having bullpen ready for the quickly faltering Peralta (as often happens with him throughout his career) and having a quick hook for Peralta!  INEXCUSABLE!

The Brewers as a team overachieved throughout the season and have most of the time under Counsell; that's why his brain farts in the 2023 playoffs are especially frustrating!

Reminds me so much of Mike Budenholzer losing his mind in the playoffs all too often for the Bucks.

Counsell 1-9 in the last ten Brewers playoff games -- not good enough.

Now, Mark Attanasio needs to invest in players to a greater degree instead of worrying about other things so much.

Brewers need a much better sound infiltration plan to get fans going during games, especially in big situations ... get some chants going ... get some catchy chant music going!  Good grief!  The fan experience in the ballpark was far better at old Milwaukee County Stadium for that sort of thing that can make a difference in a game!

Congrats to the Brewers for defying the odds, though, by winning the division, though.  It's hard watching it all slip away so quickly with so many things that should have been played differently.

[SeaBass]

5 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

He is either staying with the Brewers or going to the Mets.

Add "Or somewhere else or retire" and you will have covered all the actual possibilities. I don't understand why people think the Mets are the hot girl in this scenario. I think they look more like a hot mess.

Stearns had a very personal reason for wanting to work in the Mets organization even before the most superest awesome rich guy in the galaxy became the owner, Counsell does not have that very specific desire in his backstory.

And once again, for the billionth time, the Mets don't have the market cornered on the ability to spend for talent. 

10 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

These Steinbrenners are not like George and will not be paying a GM anywhere near the 15 million per year that Cohen gave Stearns. 

$10 million per year. 5 years, $50 million.

Stearns really lucked out that the guy that owns the organization he's always dreamed of working for was willing to throw that kind of money at him because I'd bet that he'd have gone there for millions less in a heartbeat.

If the Mets are going to throw stupid money at Counsell to be their manager then that's the kind of move it would be. Stupid. If they give CC something like $8 million per year I'll laugh my butt off. 

And $8 million has got to be the ceiling, right? Even when overspending. Otherwise what's the difference between Stearns, a guy being paid $10 million to run the entire baseball operations, and CC, a guy that in this over ceiling scenario would make $8.5 or 9+ million to write out a lineup card everyday?