2024 NFL Discussion Thread

[BrewerFan]

6 hours ago, OldHeidelberg said:

I thought Adams had to be traded today for some money reason. You wonder if this is related, maybe Rodgers wanted him gone before giving the green light to Adams. 

I don't think so. There's no bonuses due for him in season or anything else.

I'm sure he's unhappy not playing and he wants to get traded and the Jets want to get it done, but the Raiders want a 2nd+ for him.

I'm skeptical the Jets do that. He's a rental and he'll be 32. 

[HarveysWBs]

My first thought is that this is a very NY Jets kind of move.

My second thought is (like @BrewerFan), I wish they would have just pulled the plug before we hired Hafley, and not just because he could have been an upgrade at DC for us. Hafley may turn out to be great (small sample size, but the vastly improved safety play plus the entire defensive front taking a huge step back seems to be about a wash so far, which isn’t great), but I really hate the idea that Saleh could land with an NFC contender, and you have to imagine Shanahan has already put some feelers out about him coming on in some capacity to help fix their relatively porous defense so far.

What I want to see is Belichick coming in and you having a grumpy old drill sergeant on the sidelines with a grumpy old hippie leading the offense. That’s good television right there.

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, HarveysWBs said:

My first thought is that this is a very NY Jets kind of move.

My second thought is (like @BrewerFan), I wish they would have just pulled the plug before we hired Hafley, and not just because he could have been an upgrade at DC for us. Hafley may turn out to be great (small sample size, but the vastly improved safety play plus the entire defensive front taking a huge step back seems to be about a wash so far, which isn’t great), but I really hate the idea that Saleh could land with an NFC contender, and you have to imagine Shanahan has already put some feelers out about him coming on in some capacity to help fix their relatively porous defense so far.

What I want to see is Belichick coming in and you having a grumpy old drill sergeant on the sidelines with a grumpy old hippie leading the offense. That’s good television right there.

Yeah, I think you can chalk that up to Gutekunst more than anyone. 

McKinney is 24 and he was elite last year...and now he's playing out of his mind. Bullard looks great(really similar to McKinney in play style)...but I don't see how he could screw up that front.

And again, people say it takes a year to go from one scheme to another...and I buy that going from 4-3 to 3-4 but not the other way around. The areas you're more susceptible are on plays this past week when Kenny Clark was hit with that wham block and they ran a trap right behind him, but at least you're getting up the field.

Maybe a Hassan Reddick trade would be worth it? There was a play this past week, LVN beat the LT off the snap, got his hands on him and beat him to the edge and Stafford just stepped up. Ideally, you have a DT coming there, but also, it's nice if you have a guy who can bend and get a piece of that QB. We don't really have that. You don't HAVE to have it. Nick Bosa isn't exactly Von Miller coming off the edge, either...but he's got such a refined repertoire, it doesn't matter and Gary was playing in a very similar manner. Enough speed to get the edge due to the power and hands and the threat to the inside.

 

One of the only possible conclusions I can come to is that with so much man coverage, there are so many routes open under the middle in front of the Backers, the ball is coming out quickly? Maybe with Jaire, Stokes, Valentine playing, Bullard in the slot, Quay and Cooper as the nickel backers, you give the DL time to get home? I don't actually buy that, I just can't figure out how the DL got so bad so quickly...

 

[CheezWizHed]

3 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

And again, people say it takes a year to go from one scheme to another...and I buy that going from 4-3 to 3-4 but not the other way around. The areas you're more susceptible are on plays this past week when Kenny Clark was hit with that wham block and they ran a trap right behind him, but at least you're getting up the field.

The biggest impact of the change (either direction) is whether the OLB/DE rushes from a 2 pt or 3 pt stance (typically). Julius Peppers talked about the adjustment of rushing from a standing position instead of his hand on the ground.  Looks like Gary, Smith, and LVN are struggling with doing the opposite.  

Smith makes sense... I don't see him as an DE.  Gary should be talented enough to go either way.  But I thought LVN would actually be better this way.  But none of them have much of an impact this year.  Seem like Engabare is the only one that is thriving in it so far. 

[BrewerFan]

11 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

The biggest impact of the change (either direction) is whether the OLB/DE rushes from a 2 pt or 3 pt stance (typically). Julius Peppers talked about the adjustment of rushing from a standing position instead of his hand on the ground.  Looks like Gary, Smith, and LVN are struggling with doing the opposite.  

Smith makes sense... I don't see him as an DE.  Gary should be talented enough to go either way.  But I thought LVN would actually be better this way.  But none of them have much of an impact this year.  Seem like Engabare is the only one that is thriving in it so far. 

Yeah, I'd buy that, but they ALL come from backgrounds where they play with a hand in the ground AND Hafley's said he doesn't care if they're standing or not, whatever they're more comfortable with. 

Smith's 6'5 270, he was a 4-3 DE at Miss and played with his hand in the ground at times in Washington under...whoever was after Barry.
Gary was a 3 tech in College, so he had to play with his hand on the ground. If any move would have been tough, it'd be that one...
LVN obviously at Iowa, Enagbare 4-3 at SC. We draft big DEs and played that at OLB. We don't have the smaller Reddick types so... I don't know.

Peppers played in a 4-3 his entire career, College and the NFL save for his time in GB, so that I'd get. That would make sense...similar to Aaron Kampman back when we moved him from DE to OLB. But there shoudn't be nearly as big of an issue going the other way. 

I'd feel better if I believed that was the issue as it'd mean it's just something they have to get used to, but I'm skeptical. 

I did just see PFF with a list of who gets chipped the most. Gary was near the top. Above Myles Garrett. 

TJ Watt at nearly 45%(double that of the next highest). 

And speaking of PFF, they have Smith and Enagbare grading out...pretty good thus far. I don't put too much stock in that at this point in the year(Wyatt for example has a very poor grade), but MAYBE it's just Gary and Clark playing poorly and once they get it going, it'll open things up for the rest of the DL. That and getting Wyatt back?

 

I don't know what the issue is...but I'm...mostly confident they'll figure it out. It definitely should be better with the draft capital and money we've invested. 

 

-Karl Brooks was better as a DE than as a DT in College...maybe give him some snaps out there, let Gary play inside. Move guys around, something. 

[CheezWizHed]

12 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Yeah, I'd buy that, but they ALL come from backgrounds where they play with a hand in the ground AND Hafley's said he doesn't care if they're standing or not, whatever they're more comfortable with. 

Smith's 6'5 270, he was a 4-3 DE at Miss and played with his hand in the ground at times in Washington under...whoever was after Barry.
Gary was a 3 tech in College, so he had to play with his hand on the ground. If any move would have been tough, it'd be that one...
LVN obviously at Iowa, Enagbare 4-3 at SC. We draft big DEs and played that at OLB. We don't have the smaller Reddick types so... I don't know.

 

Smith only peaked at 8 sacks with Washington and wasn't very highly regarded (many thought we overpaid).  Not sure when or how he had his hand on the ground vs stand up or it if was something else that helped him improve, but he certainly looks more comfortable as an OLB than this year.  Perhaps it is just age catching up with him.

Gary was a DE in college, but pretty much had zero technique drilled into him. He spent many, many hours getting used to pass rush from standing once drafted.  So muscle memory can be hard to overcome.

I'll have to watch closer to see if anyone does rush from a standing position.  I don't recall anyone doing that, but maybe they are swapping back and forth?

[Joseph Zarr]

At this point in time, I remain entirely unconvinced Nathaniel Hackett isn't just a giant fuzzy teddy bear trapped inside a man's body. 

[BrewerFan]

12 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Smith only peaked at 8 sacks with Washington and wasn't very highly regarded (many thought we overpaid).  Not sure when or how he had his hand on the ground vs stand up or it if was something else that helped him improve, but he certainly looks more comfortable as an OLB than this year.  Perhaps it is just age catching up with him.

Gary was a DE in college, but pretty much had zero technique drilled into him. He spent many, many hours getting used to pass rush from standing once drafted.  So muscle memory can be hard to overcome.

I'll have to watch closer to see if anyone does rush from a standing position.  I don't recall anyone doing that, but maybe they are swapping back and forth?

Yeah, I remember there were concerns about both Preston and Za'Darius...even more so the later since he got paid more and had been less productive.

As for guys rushing standing up, they're not as far as I can recall save for a handful of snaps in sub packages, but I'm going back to Hafley's opening press conference and interviews about what the defense would look like. He's said that's something he leaves up to the players. That was how he did it at BC.

That's always been a preference...far as I've known for a pass rusher. It's a quicker get off in a 3-point stance and again, all of these guys started out in one way with their hand on the ground. Sure, Gary was raw, but it was a lack of pass-rushing technique(similar to LVN now...though Gary is a more fluid athlete). 

So again, I'd understand if you went the other way. If you were Peppers and spent all of College, 12 years in the NFL and THEN you're asked to stand up and drop in coverage and read and react before rushing at 34. That's a tough switch. If SF went to a 3-4 and Nick Bosa was struggling it'd make more sense, but the elite edges, Mack, Joey Bosa, Hunter, just to name a few, they've all seamlessly transitioned from DE to OLB or vice versa.

 

I hope I'm wrong and this is just part of the transition... maybe Hafley is doing things differently. It's better than the alternative. Clark and Smith are slowing down. I think Gary is too good to struggle like this. 

On the bright side, we are creating pressure and getting some hits on the QBs with free runners. 

[BrewerFan]

And in other news, Musgrave is finally going on IR. He looked especially gimpy as of late and has had no impact, so give him a month.

Romeo Doubs has been back, the consummate professional per Andy Stenavich...who also said Jordan Morgan would play when he's able to said this about him;

Quote

"His potential is extremely high. He's going to be a very good player. It would be foolish of us not to push that along as soon as possible, and only way to do that is for him to be playing."

Sean Rhyan has played well as the RG. Much-much better than I'd have expected in pass protection. 

[Brian]

On 10/8/2024 at 4:58 PM, BrewerFan said:

Rodger's is basically running the Jets at this point.

He did the same thing his last couple years in GB and he is totally whacked now.  With his, "I'm immunized to his darkness retreat and his taking psychedelics".  I'm sure to many hits to the head did it but I believe he truly would screw over his own grandmother just to try and prove an injustice has been made against him.  I have lost all respect for Aaron but some people still cater to him.  So glad the Packers got rid of him when they did. He is a walking/talking/vengeful/prideful curse right now. 

[CheezWizHed]

I was done with Rodgers when he pulled the "get the WRs ready for me in OTAs and I'll be back in TC" schtick. 

If you want the team to spend draft capitol on WRs, you need to work with them to get on the same page.  

[BrewerFan]

Yeah, Rodgers just sucked at the end in GB. Not as a Player, I think he'd be doing great with this group TBH. There was a lot of manipulation with him though...just the games and his Festivus, the airing of grievances. 

 

The Jets must be having so much fun. Just one more former Packers great will do it. Yup! Trade that 2nd for Adams. See how much better off they are out from under Gute's thumb!

 

[HarryDoyle]

14 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Yeah, Rodgers just sucked at the end in GB. Not as a Player, I think he'd be doing great with this group TBH. There was a lot of manipulation with him though...just the games and his Festivus, the airing of grievances. 

 

The Jets must be having so much fun. Just one more former Packers great will do it. Yup! Trade that 2nd for Adams. See how much better off they are out from under Gute's thumb!

 

Adams is not going to cure what ails the Jets. Receivers have the least to do with how an offense functions. You can't catch the ball without a quarterback that can get it to you, or an offensive line that can protect the quarterback, or a running back that can keep the defense honest. What I could see is the team rally around the interim head coach and make a playoff run, then make the mistake of promoting the interim coach to permanent head coach, only for the team to revert back to their losing ways. Like what's happening in Vegas now.

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

Adams is not going to cure what ails the Jets. Receivers have the least to do with how an offense functions. You can't catch the ball without a quarterback that can get it to you, or an offensive line that can protect the quarterback, or a running back that can keep the defense honest. What I could see is the team rally around the interim head coach and make a playoff run, then make the mistake of promoting the interim coach to permanent head coach, only for the team to revert back to their losing ways. Like what's happening in Vegas now.

I was being facetious...one player isn't going to fix the Jets.

That said, the Jets have all of those things...at least on paper. The OL's only hole is RT when Moses is out and they've got a a rookie there who should get better. They've got Breece Hall and Allen who should be a good fit.

It's kinda like chemistry and culture ARE important. 

 

 

[HarryDoyle]

If Gabe Davis ever thinks about getting in Trevor Lawrence's face again, sit it out. He almost singlehandedly ruined that would be touchdown drive.

[HarryDoyle]

Jacksonville is a really bad team. It's hard to see them ever being a consistent winner. Can Pederson be fired when the Jaguars have to stay in London another week?

[yourout]

Might not win the super Bowl this year but the NFC North is probably the most competitive division in football.

[HarryDoyle]

12 minutes ago, yourout said:

Might not win the super Bowl this year but the NFC North is probably the most competitive division in football.

Three for three in butt kickings today. I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the Paul Farrington Show youtube channel but it's a Vikings fan account and they were saying this week that they fully expected three blowouts from the division. They're actually pretty cool for Vikings fans. The few that don't want to make you punch them in the face.

[HarryDoyle]

Ouch, huge blow to Detroit losing Hutch. Looks like a long term injury.

[yourout]

Wonder if McCarthy will survive the week.

[HarryDoyle]

4 minutes ago, yourout said:

Wonder if McCarthy will survive the week.

Probably. There are coaches on hotter seats than him that will survive this week.

[HarryDoyle]

OK, I'm officially on the I Hate Dan Campbell train. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

24 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

Probably. There are coaches on hotter seats than him that will survive this week.

I'm not sure he survives the night. 

[young guns]

Going into a bye week for Dallas would be among the best times to do it midseason

[GAME05]

Drake Maye looked decent. This could end up being the historically best QB class.