Jesse Winkers 2024 Season:

[TURBO]

*shaking my head*

[Brewcrew82]

He's healthy now. Just took him a year longer to recover unfortunately. 

[duewizard]

129 OPS+, 1.7bWAR, .352 wOBA, 128 wRC+, 93rd percentile batting run value. 

[Samurai Bucky]

The same thing will happen with Hoskins.

[young guns]

If that same happens to Hoskins that will be good for next years team because he probably won't be opting out at his current pace. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Meh, still a sub 800 ops from a guy you really hope can be closer to .900 at just 30 yrs old.

 

Also, not lost on me that the team he is doing it with isn't exactly built to be a contender - similar to many of those good years as a Red.

[LouisEly]

3 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Meh, still a sub 800 ops from a guy you really hope can be closer to .900 at just 30 yrs old.

Among the 59 players with at least 100 PAs in LF, Winker's 129 wRC+ ranks 12th.  There is exactly one LF with an OPS >.900, three at .900 if you round up, and that person has a .390 BA.  Eight have an OPS >.850.

Offense at LF, league-wide, isn't as prolific as you think.

[Fear The Chorizo]

2 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Among the 59 players with at least 100 PAs in LF, Winker's 129 wRC+ ranks 12th.  There is exactly one LF with an OPS >.900, three at .900 if you round up, and that person has a .390 BA.  Eight have an OPS >.850.

Offense at LF, league-wide, isn't as prolific as you think.

I don't care - Winker shouldn't be a left fielder, he should be a DH.  The fact he's OPS-ing under 0.800 with his defensive "prowess" further diminishes his value to a team that has any sort of sights set on contending.

I really don't have anything against him, just that I'm not going to lose sleep over him putting together a decent offensive season the year after he was atrocious as a Brewer.  Glad they didn't entertain adding Winker last offseason, because they have better options at corner OF and DH positions on their roster right now.

[sveumrules]

3 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Among the 59 players with at least 100 PAs in LF, Winker's 129 wRC+ ranks 12th.  There is exactly one LF with an OPS >.900, three at .900 if you round up, and that person has a .390 BA.  Eight have an OPS >.850.

Offense at LF, league-wide, isn't as prolific as you think.

League average OPS for LF is .714 this year, lowest its been since 2002 when FanGraphs positional splits begin. Previous low was .724 back in the 2014 deadball year.

With how much league offensive environment changes year to year (league OPS is 704 this year after 734 in 2023 and 706 in 2022 and 739 in 2021 and 769 in 2019) its always best to use OPS+ or wRC+ to account for that instead of relying on historical benchmark OPS numbers that are easier or harder to reach depending on the myriad factors playing into that ever shifting leaguewide offensive environment. 

[wiguy94]

4 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I don't care - Winker shouldn't be a left fielder, he should be a DH.  The fact he's OPS-ing under 0.800 with his defensive "prowess" further diminishes his value to a team that has any sort of sights set on contending.

I really don't have anything against him, just that I'm not going to lose sleep over him putting together a decent offensive season the year after he was atrocious as a Brewer.  Glad they didn't entertain adding Winker last offseason, because they have better options at corner OF and DH positions on their roster right now.

Of the 26 players with 100 PA at DH this season, Winker's 129 wRC+ would be 9th best between Schwarber and Stanton. Who do the Brewers currently have putting up 129 wRC+ at the DH spot?

[Fear The Chorizo]

59 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Of the 26 players with 100 PA at DH this season, Winker's 129 wRC+ would be 9th best between Schwarber and Stanton. Who do the Brewers currently have putting up 129 wRC+ at the DH spot?

Again, I really don't care - because Winker isn't on this team - the combination of guys the Brewers have thrown at DH haven't set the world on fire, but they also can all play decent defense at their primary positions when it isn't their turn to DH. It's not how I'd prefer the Brewers utilize the DH roster spot, but Hoskins in his current form is more or less their primary DH when healthy anyways.  Based on how Hoskins is performing so far this season, maybe the lesson the Brewers have to learn is to not acquire hitters coming off a major injury - but instead wait until the following offseason when they could be had for even cheaper.

And, Winker has primarily been a LF this year as a National - his numbers as their DH are actually pretty bad in limited playing time there (2023-esque 0.597 OPS).  We can continue arguing about whether or not Winker's 2024 #'s would be a net help or harm to this year's Brewers team, but frankly I'm glad he's not on this roster despite him not continuing to be historically awful offensively like he was last season.  Would you have preferred they signed him last winter for any amount of money based on what Winker did for the Brewers in 2023?  This year's team is built around speed and defense - two tools Winker doesn't have at all even when fully healthy.

[Outlander]

That is strange that Winker continues to be horrendous when being the DH. 

[sveumrules]

9 minutes ago, Outlander said:

That is strange that Winker continues to be horrendous when being the DH. 

Not sure if anyone has followed up on it in the interim with the universal DH now in play and more & more guys cycling through the position annually, but back when The Book was published they found the DH Penalty was around 14 points of wOBA on average (or about six runs for every 500 PAs).

Obviously some guys are more extreme than others, and some even hit better when DHing as every rule has exceptions, but for the most part players hit worse when DHing versus when they are playing the field.

[rickh150]

6 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Not sure if anyone has followed up on it in the interim with the universal DH now in play and more & more guys cycling through the position annually, but back when The Book was published they found the DH Penalty was around 14 points of wOBA on average (or about six runs for every 500 PAs).

Obviously some guys are more extreme than others, and some even hit better when DHing as every rule has exceptions, but for the most part players hit worse when DHing versus when they are playing the field.

Hiura hits .880 as career DH in 141 PA,   And he is over .800 OPS again this season overall.
Angels have him now at AAA and he has been on fire the last couple of weeks.

[sveumrules]

1 minute ago, rickh150 said:

Hiura hits .880 as career DH in 141 PA,   And he is over .800 OPS again this season overall.
Angels have him now at AAA and he has been on fire the last couple of weeks.

Hiura is so brutal afield I wouldn’t be surprised if he is one of the exceptions that hits better when DHing, but 141 PA spread out over three calendar years is hardly definitive of anything.

Maybe he’ll get a chance with LAA, they’ve got recent #11 overall pick Schanuel at 1B but have gotten pretty brutal DH production (90 wRC+ | 20th) with Willie Calhoun the primary culprit.

Not getting a guaranteed MLB deal this offseason, then getting released by the Tigers, there’s already some writing on the wall for Keston, but if a going nowhere Angels club doesn’t even give him a shot at some point this summer he’ll be getting dangerously close to Crash Davis territory (but at least Crash could catch).

[LouisEly]

On 6/24/2024 at 1:00 PM, Fear The Chorizo said:

I don't care - Winker shouldn't be a left fielder, he should be a DH.  The fact he's OPS-ing under 0.800 with his defensive "prowess" further diminishes his value to a team that has any sort of sights set on contending.

That's fair.  The point sveumrules and I are making is that an OPS of .800 (of which he currently sits at .793) this season means a lot more than it has in the past.

[Guest]

I just saw Winker's name going around social.... for apparently going into the stands and challenging a 60+ year old fan to a fight.

[Joseph Zarr]

8 hours ago, EddieTheCousin said:

I just saw Winker's name going around social.... for apparently going into the stands and challenging a 60+ year old fan to a fight.

Gotta say, he showed more fight in this clip (regardless of his numbers) than he did all of 2024 with the Brewers. Got some spunk and some moxy down in the Capital 😅: