Brewers acquire Frankie Montas

[BrewerFan]

23 minutes ago, thebruce44 said:

I don't know that it will happen, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Weimer put it together in a year or two similar to Gomez or Podsednik.

Not at all. If I was Cincy, I'd just throw him out there, let him swing it like he wants to and don't try and mess with his mechanics. 

 

[Brian]

On 7/30/2024 at 12:01 AM, Playing Catch said:

I hate this.

I don't understand it. I am confused. 

I like cheap Junis more than less cheap Montas.

Apparently, my prospect love for Wiemer will remain unrequited. Say it ain't so, Joe-y.

I think the Brewers seen something bad in Junis because in his 1st outing for the Reds he gave up 3 runs in 1.1 innings.  His ERA with Cincy is now 20.25 

[Jim Goulart]

 

[umphrey]

The weirdest part about this trade was that I felt like Montas was probably a negative asset at 5.01 era and $16M AAV. Like I would have been less surprised to see Montas get DFA than Paxton probably. 

[thebruce44]

On 8/3/2024 at 7:48 PM, yourout said:

It would shock the hell out of me without a complete rework of his mechanics

How quickly sentiment changes.
 

 

[shanedog19]

I think Arnold has had a really really awful year as GM. He traded arguably the best pitcher in baseball two weeks before the season starts for an extremely mediocre, if not lousy return. Why not hold on to Burnes at that point and he either a) helps the 2024 team win a pennant, or b) wait until the trade deadline and get a much better return? We should either be a legit World Series contender with Burnes, or received a king’s ransom at this year’s trade deadline. Instead we got neither and now we’re stuck in no man’s land. He followed that up with adding a bunch of reclamation projects at the deadline instead of legitimately trying to help the team win a division. It’s very frustrating as a fan.

[thebruce44]

30 minutes ago, shanedog19 said:

I think Arnold has had a really really awful year as GM. He traded arguably the best pitcher in baseball two weeks before the season starts for an extremely mediocre, if not lousy return. Why not hold on to Burnes at that point and he either a) helps the 2024 team win a pennant, or b) wait until the trade deadline and get a much better return? We should either be a legit World Series contender with Burnes, or received a king’s ransom at this year’s trade deadline. Instead we got neither and now we’re stuck in no man’s land. He followed that up with adding a bunch of reclamation projects at the deadline instead of legitimately trying to help the team win a division. It’s very frustrating as a fan.

Just to be clear, you view this team (injuries and all) as a legit World Series contender if Burnes was still on the team vs the current team makeup? That alone makes the difference?

This isn't a gotcha type question, just trying to isolate the issues this team faces and understand your position.

[bigred]

5 hours ago, shanedog19 said:

I think Arnold has had a really really awful year as GM. He traded arguably the best pitcher in baseball two weeks before the season starts for an extremely mediocre, if not lousy return. Why not hold on to Burnes at that point and he either a) helps the 2024 team win a pennant, or b) wait until the trade deadline and get a much better return? We should either be a legit World Series contender with Burnes, or received a king’s ransom at this year’s trade deadline. Instead we got neither and now we’re stuck in no man’s land. He followed that up with adding a bunch of reclamation projects at the deadline instead of legitimately trying to help the team win a division. It’s very frustrating as a fan.

They wouldn't have received a kings ransom for Burnes at this year's deadline because every team in MLB would've known he would've been a free agent after the season. 

[Jopal78]

10 hours ago, shanedog19 said:

I think Arnold has had a really really awful year as GM. He traded arguably the best pitcher in baseball two weeks before the season starts for an extremely mediocre, if not lousy return. Why not hold on to Burnes at that point and he either a) helps the 2024 team win a pennant, or b) wait until the trade deadline and get a much better return? We should either be a legit World Series contender with Burnes, or received a king’s ransom at this year’s trade deadline. Instead we got neither and now we’re stuck in no man’s land. He followed that up with adding a bunch of reclamation projects at the deadline instead of legitimately trying to help the team win a division. It’s very frustrating as a fan.

The number of “Top 100” prospects traded at the deadline this year: 0. 
 

All the teams are acutely aware of the importance of having minor league talent flowing to the big league roster, especially those who are luxury tax payors. That’s why the era of getting a can’t miss prospect for a rental player is largely over.
 

The Brewers in fact got major league players for Burnes plus a draft pick, and were able to redistribute payroll picking up both Sanchez and Junis as free agents after Burnes and his 15 million dollar salary was traded.

That importance of that  pipeline of talent flowing is the same reason the Brewers made some ho-hum deals at the deadline this year, their own blue chip minor leaguers are more important than a rental player .

[brewcrewdue80]

10 hours ago, shanedog19 said:

I think Arnold has had a really really awful year as GM. He traded arguably the best pitcher in baseball two weeks before the season starts for an extremely mediocre, if not lousy return. Why not hold on to Burnes at that point and he either a) helps the 2024 team win a pennant, or b) wait until the trade deadline and get a much better return? We should either be a legit World Series contender with Burnes, or received a king’s ransom at this year’s trade deadline. Instead we got neither and now we’re stuck in no man’s land. He followed that up with adding a bunch of reclamation projects at the deadline instead of legitimately trying to help the team win a division. It’s very frustrating as a fan.

Kings ransom?  The trade deadline was one without a single top 100 prospect exchanging teams I heard.  Ortiz was doing just fine until he was injured.  DL Hall is a Tbd.  

[StearnsFTW]

On 8/3/2024 at 9:59 PM, BrewerFan said:

Not at all. If I was Cincy, I'd just throw him out there, let him swing it like he wants to and don't try and mess with his mechanics. 

 

I would be floored if he was ever anywhere close to the player that Gomez was at his best.

 

Podsednik?  Sure.  But he was basically replacement level his whole career other than 2003.

 

[Jopal78]

On 8/3/2024 at 9:35 PM, thebruce44 said:

I don't know that it will happen, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Weimer put it together in a year or two similar to Gomez or Podsednik.

Echoing a similar thought as others; Podsednik was the textbook definition of a journeyman outfielder who played for eight different teams across parts of 11 seasons. If Wiemer’s career trajectory is similar It would mean the Brewers made a pretty fair deal.

[BrewerFan]

6 hours ago, StearnsFTW said:

I would be floored if he was ever anywhere close to the player that Gomez was at his best.

 

Podsednik?  Sure.  But he was basically replacement level his whole career other than 2003.

 

I didn't say Gomez or Podsednick, just that I thought if they left him along, in a year or two he'd be a good player.

I don't think either is a great comparison for Wiemer. I'd go more with Joey Gallo type. I think he'll hit .220 walk a lot, hit for a lot of power and he can provide a lot of value on defense.

 

On 8/5/2024 at 9:34 AM, brewcrewdue80 said:

Kings ransom?  The trade deadline was one without a single top 100 prospect exchanging teams I heard.  Ortiz was doing just fine until he was injured.  DL Hall is a Tbd.  

I don't know exactly how many top 100 were traded, but the Pads traded at least two. Snelling and Lesko. 

 

It's silly to say we traded Burnes for a "lousy return." Ortiz is a guy you build a team with. Maybe he's not the lynchpin, but he's a very valuable player. Hall was awesome for Baltimore last year and we got the 34th pick. 

It was a pretty good return. I don't know if we could have gotten more for him if we kept him...but we wouldn't have traded him. So it's like 20 years of team control for 3 prospects, 2 that were top 100 for 12+ years or a year of Burnes. I'm viewing the next window as being the next 4-5 years, so I was fine with it.

[BrewerFan]

On 8/5/2024 at 9:17 AM, Jopal78 said:

The number of “Top 100” prospects traded at the deadline this year: 0. 
 

All the teams are acutely aware of the importance of having minor league talent flowing to the big league roster, especially those who are luxury tax payors. That’s why the era of getting a can’t miss prospect for a rental player is largely over.

Where is this coming from? Snelling was a top 40 prospect on BA and MLB and ~50 on Baseball Prospectus.

Lesko was also top 50 on BA and Prospectus and in the 50s on MLB.com

And those were just the two off the top of my head. 

Snelling went for a reliever with 3 other prospects and Lesko went for a 32-year-old reliever.

I'd guess there'd be other top 100 prospects who were traded, but...I didn't go through each trade and parse out the players, just the names that stood out to me. 

[wiguy94]

1 minute ago, BrewerFan said:

Where is this coming from? Snelling was a top 40 prospect on BA and MLB and ~50 on Baseball Prospectus.

Lesko was also top 50 on BA and Prospectus and in the 50s on MLB.com

And those were just the two off the top of my head. 

Snelling went for a reliever with 3 other prospects and Lesko went for a 32-year-old reliever.

I'd guess there'd be other top 100 prospects who were traded, but...I didn't go through each trade and parse out the players, just the names that stood out to me. 

From Baseball America. 0 of their updated Top 100 prospects were traded at the deadline.

 

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, wiguy94 said:

From Baseball America. 0 of their updated Top 100 prospects were traded at the deadline.

 

Thats a big drop for Snelling(27) and Lesko(38) from the start of the season...

[StearnsFTW]

3 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I didn't say Gomez or Podsednick, just that I thought if they left him along, in a year or two he'd be a good player.

I don't think either is a great comparison for Wiemer. I'd go more with Joey Gallo type. I think he'll hit .220 walk a lot, hit for a lot of power and he can provide a lot of value on defense.

 

I don't know exactly how many top 100 were traded, but the Pads traded at least two. Snelling and Lesko. 

 

It's silly to say we traded Burnes for a "lousy return." Ortiz is a guy you build a team with. Maybe he's not the lynchpin, but he's a very valuable player. Hall was awesome for Baltimore last year and we got the 34th pick. 

It was a pretty good return. I don't know if we could have gotten more for him if we kept him...but we wouldn't have traded him. So it's like 20 years of team control for 3 prospects, 2 that were top 100 for 12+ years or a year of Burnes. I'm viewing the next window as being the next 4-5 years, so I was fine with it.

Sorry, I quoted the wrong person.

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, BrewerFan said:

Thats a big drop for Snelling(27) and Lesko(38) from the start of the season...

That’s what happens when A ball players are put in Top 100 lists. A new crop of draftees comes in and A ball players whose numbers dip in AA fall off the lists

 

[BrewerFan]

17 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

That’s what happens when A ball players are put in Top 100 lists. A new crop of draftees comes in and A ball players whose numbers dip in AA fall off the lists

 

A bad half a year and you go from #27 to out of the top 100? I don't think that happens real often. 

[Playing Catch]

18 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

A bad half a year and you go from #27 to out of the top 100? I don't think that happens real often. 

I think some of those lists pride themselves on "fixing" what they think they got wrong.

It's not so different from our own rankings. Made may make the top 10 after the season, but if he's batting .210 in June next year, playing in AZ, that could change really quickly.

[gregmag]

Frankie Montas, ladies and gentlemen. Seven innings of brutally efficient one-hit ball, on the road against technically the (now former) second-place team in the division. He was still hitting 97 in the 7th. 

In no way am I saying I saw this coming, but maybe the Brewers brain trust know what they’re doing. 

[sveumrules]

Montas has posted a 2.57 ERA and the Brewers have won all four of his starts.

Junis has a 5.40 ERA in 10 innings of low leverage relief work.

Wiemer has hit 075/140/075 (-47 wRC+) in 43 AAA PAs with the Reds.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I don't know actually, but was curious...

Has their been a pitcher traded at the deadline who has been better than Montas since joining their new team?  Maybe Fedde or Flaherty?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

1 minute ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I don't know actually, but was curious...

Has their been a pitcher traded at the deadline who has been better than Montas since joining their new team?  Maybe Fedde?

Fedde has been meh. Flaherty has been pretty solid for the Dodgers. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

On 8/8/2024 at 3:20 PM, BrewerFan said:

A bad half a year and you go from #27 to out of the top 100? I don't think that happens real often. 

It seems like a huge drop but it really isnt when there is fresh talent added to systems every draft, every international signing period, and after every team has a prospect or two surface from dominican/instructional leagues.  Guys who get a lofty ranking early that fall flat the next season have guys like Jesus Made leapfrog them based on recency bias.