Jackson Chourio Appreciation Thread

[brewcrewdue80]

On 8/9/2024 at 9:59 AM, adambr2 said:

Why isn't Chourio getting any ROTY love? Skenes is going to win, I get that, but Chourio at least deserves to be in the discussion on the same level as guys like Jackson Merrill and Tyler Fitzgerald.

Maybe Myers and Ortiz take some of the shine away.  I think around the time you posted this, some betting sites had both favored over Chourio. 

[Playing Catch]

10 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Maybe Myers and Ortiz take some of the shine away.  I think around the time you posted this, some betting sites had both favored over Chourio. 

Not the "Young Brewers Appreciation Thread," and I've mentioned it before, but egads! What a young roster! Chourio may be the rightful star, but the other guys being a mix of serviceable starting players, and young players with some first-division-regular upside is pretty awesome. It really makes free agency easier, when you are looking for pieces instead of studs (not that studs wouldn't be great, too).

[Brewcrew82]

I was wondering about this. Peripherals confirm what our eyes and the numbers are telling us. Incredible progression. 

 

[wiguy94]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

I was wondering about this. Peripherals confirm what our eyes and the numbers are telling us. Incredible progression. 

 

I mentioned over on BCB today that August has really seemed like the month where he's kind of figured out what he wants to be as an MLB hitter in terms of contact/power balance. By far his best month when it comes to power metrics.

His launch angle is 10 in August compared to a previous month high of 7 in April.
His barrel rate is at 13.6% compared to a previous high of 7.7% in April.
His hard hit rate is at 56.8% compared to a previous high of 48.6% in July.
His xSLG is at .597 compared to a previous high of .507 in July.
His xISO is at .238 compared to a previous high of .178 in July.

[wiguy94]

Another cool Jackson Chourio stat. He has an xwOBA and wOBA above .300 against fastballs, breaking balls, and off speed pitches so he has shown an ability to hit everything. Chourio has seen 8 different pitches over 30 times this season. Of those 8 pitches he only has a negative run value against 2 pitches. Four seamers and splitters and both of those are at -1 run value. He does have a .345 wOBA and .344 xwOBA against four seamers, so he still hits that pitch really well.
 

[markedman5]

So grateful for the leadership that Willy, Freddy and William have provided to Jackson.

What a great culture the Brewers have cultivated over the last decade

Jackson Chourio confides in Brewers teammates during slump

WWW.MLB.COM

---

MILWAUKEE – It was May 28 against the Cubs. In the sixth inning with the Brewers down a run, Chicago catcher Miguel Amaya hit a fly ball to shallow left field that was catchable for an...

 

[treego14]

[jay87shot]

When you look for comp. and the only guys are the goats of various era your doing pretty well.

[Playing Catch]

I love guys who derive their value from driving the baseball rather than working the count. Walks are overrated. No one dreams about winning the game with a bases loaded walk.

[thebruce44]

13 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

I love guys who derive their value from driving the baseball rather than working the count. Walks are overrated. No one dreams about winning the game with a bases loaded walk.

He's 20 and squaring up high quality breaking balls at the highest level of the game. That's nuts.

But let's also not pretend that the game will slow down for him and his eye will get better. That's a good thing.

Can't "walk off the island" is an old idea and doesn't apply to him anyway.

[Playing Catch]

8 hours ago, thebruce44 said:

But let's also not pretend that the game will slow down for him and his eye will get better. That's a good thing.

Oh, no question! I didn't mean to disparage having a good eye --- it's just that over the last 10 or 15 years of the "3TO era," I've become bored with the sheer volume of .220/.320/.480 batting lines.

Obviously, much different players, but Chourio's batting lines remind me of Miguel Cabrera. High average, good power. The game misses those kinds of superstars.

(I think the "Soto Shuffle," upon taking a ball, is truly more distasteful for me than ANY bat flip/HR antics, the fact that kids are mimicking this makes me crazy)

[Brewcrew82]

Most interesting remaining question on Chourio imo is when does he take hold of the starting CF spot. Chourio has already mastered RF and is growing increasingly comfortable in LF (probably deserves a GG). Meanwhile, Mitchell, Perkins, and Frelick just aren't hitting enough to have the everyday CF spot on lock. Chourio clearly has all the tools to play at least an above average CF and his value would only increase were he to successfully make the transition. 

My guess: He plays there a ton next ST, and he leads the Brewers in innings played at CF by the end of next season. 

[Team Canada]

1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

I've become bored with the sheer volume of .220/.320/.480 batting lines.

It's crazy to me that Jackson has the 15th highest BA in the NL at .274. 

[yfinn6]

10 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Most interesting remaining question on Chourio imo is when does he take hold of the starting CF spot. Chourio has already mastered RF and is growing increasingly comfortable in LF (probably deserves a GG). Meanwhile, Mitchell, Perkins, and Frelick just aren't hitting enough to have the everyday CF spot on lock. Chourio clearly has all the tools to play at least an above average CF and his value would only skyrocket were he to successfully make the transition. 

My guess: He plays there a ton next ST, and he leads the Brewers in innings played at CF by the end of next season. 

Does he need to, though? Not trying to play Devil's advocate here and I don't know how much data or information is out there but it seems - to me - that saving his legs and less running, etc, in a corner spot might make him a better offensive weapon.

Now, if the Brewers feel he can handle CF and they find a corner OF bat that is strictly a corner OF (like Yelich) then I can see that move. But for now, I feel like's fine in a corner spot. 

[Brewcrew82]

20 minutes ago, yfinn6 said:

Does he need to, though? Not trying to play Devil's advocate here and I don't know how much data or information is out there but it seems - to me - that saving his legs and less running, etc, in a corner spot might make him a better offensive weapon.

Now, if the Brewers feel he can handle CF and they find a corner OF bat that is strictly a corner OF (like Yelich) then I can see that move. But for now, I feel like's fine in a corner spot. 

I agree he's fine for now, but he did show he could handle the offensive and defensive workload in the minors. He won a minor league GG in CF in 2022 the same year he was MVP of the Carolina League. All the scouts have him as a 60 grade defender in CF.

I just think there's no reason not to work to transition him there when the value payoff in CF is so great. If he was injury prone that's one thing, but he's never spent a single day on the IL as a pro to this point. No need to "save the legs" of a 20 year old. Willie Mays, for instance, as great a hitter as he was, wouldn't have been Willie Mays in a corner OF spot. 

[Team Canada]

28 minutes ago, yfinn6 said:

Mitchell, Perkins, and Frelick just aren't hitting enough to have the everyday CF spot on lock.

Sure, but who are you putting in LF instead? If it's the same group of players and you're just swapping positions, that obviously doesn't accomplish anything when Perkins and Mitchell are also excellent fielders. Assuming Yelich mostly DHs next year, I'm not sure who we're sticking in LF instead of Chourio.

[yfinn6]

5 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

Sure, but who are you putting in LF instead? If it's the same group of players and you're just swapping positions, that obviously doesn't accomplish anything when Perkins and Mitchell are also excellent fielders. Assuming Yelich mostly DHs next year, I'm not sure who we're sticking in LF instead of Chourio.

I'm not sure why that quote is attributed to me, but what the hell I'll respond anyway.

I would rather Perkins, Mitchell, or Frelick play in CF next year assuming there are no rosters moves with bats, and probably in that order. Assuming Yelich is DH'ing as often as he's in left field. 

Mitchell and Frelick really need to start putting barrel to the ball but that's probably another discussion entirely. 

[Team Canada]

4 minutes ago, yfinn6 said:

I'm not sure why that quote is attributed to me, but what the hell I'll respond anyway.

Whoops, I think I selected your quote of the original quote, that was confusing. :)

[Brewcrew82]

14 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

Sure, but who are you putting in LF instead? If it's the same group of players and you're just swapping positions, that obviously doesn't accomplish anything when Perkins and Mitchell are also excellent fielders. Assuming Yelich mostly DHs next year, I'm not sure who we're sticking in LF instead of Chourio.

Honestly, Sal Frelick probably deserves to be in LF more often. And I doubt Yelich is suddenly going to stop playing in the field. Mitchell can play a good RF, and has the best arm of all the RF options. 

Perkins is the only one who's really proven to be a superior option, but he hasn't shown that he can hit enough to be a surefire everyday player. 

Bottom line is Chourio in CF is of greater value to the Brewers than Chourio in LF if he proves he can do it which every indication from his minor league career is that he can. He's got the contract that none of those other guys do to where he takes precedence. 

[Playing Catch]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Bottom line is Chourio in CF is of greater value to the Brewers than Chourio in LF if he proves he can do it

Not if Perkins/Mitchell and Frelick are in the lineup. Then, Chourio's greatest "value," is in left. Whether he plays "everyday," in CF means nothing.

Now if Yelich and Frelick are playing the field? Perhaps Chourio should play CF. Although, even then, I'm not sure he's yet as good as Frelick.

[Brewcrew82]

1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

Not if Perkins/Mitchell and Frelick are in the lineup. Then, Chourio's greatest "value," is in left. Whether he plays "everyday," in CF means nothing.

Now if Yelich and Frelick are playing the field? Perhaps Chourio should play CF. Although, even then, I'm not sure he's yet as good as Frelick.

Chourio is already better than Frelick in the OF...

With reps, Chourio can absolutely be as good as Mitchell in CF. Who knows if he gets Perkins good as that's almost Prime Cain level, but remember Chourio won a GG in CF in the minors and played that position exclusively until this season grading as a future 60. 

[Playing Catch]

4 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Chourio is already better than Frelick in the OF...

With reps, Chourio can absolutely be as good as Mitchell in CF. Who knows if he gets Perkins good as that's almost Prime Cain level, but remember Chourio won a GG in CF in the minors and played that position exclusively until this season grading as a future 60. 

At this point, I think Frelick is better. Better routes. Better arm. I very well could be wrong, but that's what my eyes see. I suppose it's possible he could become better than Mitchell, but I doubt it. I think Mitchell and Perkins are both current 60's in CF, at least.

Look, none of my opinions are a reflection of Chourio. He's awesome. I think he'll be a great centerfielder one day, perhaps as soon as next season depending on how the roster shakes out. I just think that if the roster were to remain static, it could be awhile before he's playing CF on a regular basis. I also can see a scenario in the immediate future where Chourio would be the DH with an outfield of Frelick, Perkins and Mitchell, left to right.

I couldn't care less if he won a MiLB gold glove. And I also think that his mastering the position wouldn't take very long, regardless.

[Brewcrew82]

12 minutes ago, Playing Catch said:

At this point, I think Frelick is better. Better routes. Better arm. I very well could be wrong, but that's what my eyes see. I suppose it's possible he could become better than Mitchell, but I doubt it. I think Mitchell and Perkins are both current 60's in CF, at least.

Look, none of my opinions are a reflection of Chourio. He's awesome. I think he'll be a great centerfielder one day, perhaps as soon as next season depending on how the roster shakes out. I just think that if the roster were to remain static, it could be awhile before he's playing CF on a regular basis. I also can see a scenario in the immediate future where Chourio would be the DH with an outfield of Frelick, Perkins and Mitchell, left to right.

I couldn't care less if he won a MiLB gold glove. And I also think that his mastering the position wouldn't take very long, regardless.

Chourio: 14 DRS, 5 OAA, 6 FRV, 12.8 UZR/150, 3.5 DEF, 1.1 dWAR

Frelick, 8 DRS, 5 OAA, 5 FRV, -5.3 UZR/150, 2.4 DEF, 0.6 dWAR

Chourio is pretty clearly better than Frelick by the stats, fwiw.

[Playing Catch]

5 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Chourio: 14 DRS, 5 OAA, 6 FRV, 12.8 UZR/150, 3.5 DEF, 1.1 dWAR

Frelick, 8 DRS, 5 OAA, 5 FRV, -5.3 UZR/150, 2.4 DEF, 0.6 dWAR

Chourio is pretty clearly better than Frelick by the stats, fwiw.

Haha, yes, I was aware of his numbers... I'm just dubious. Similarly of Turang somehow grades out as a good, not great, second baseman with many of the metrics. I just cannot believe that Turang isn't a superior defender in ALL metrics.

If I were to believe the metrics, than yes, I agree with the idea to put Chourio in center, or at least that he's superior to Frelick.

[wiguy94]

Chourio is 14th in the MLB in fWAR since June 1st at 2.7. That's 6-7 fWAR pace over a full season.