Cardinals (Gray) vs Brewers (Rea): 9/4/24, 6:40pm

[Brian]

2 minutes ago, brewfanmn said:

Lol in the span of 10 minutes in this thread, there are people suggesting that a team with a top-3 record and run differential in MLB both can't beat good teams, and also plays down to the level of bad teams.

I will never understand people tying themselves in knots just to be pessimistic. If you're going to distort reality, at least do it to be optimistic

I am not pessimistic 90% of the time but our biggest weakness is 1st base, JMHO. 

[brewfanmn]

7 minutes ago, treego14 said:

Bauers/Hoskins have been batting behind Chourio lately ... complete madness.

Before tonight, Hoskins had batted behind Chourio 1 time in the previous 21 games. Bauers hadn't done it since July.

[brewfanmn]

3 minutes ago, Brian said:

I am not pessimistic 90% of the time but our biggest weakness is 1st base, JMHO. 

Can't argue with that

[Austin Tatious]

1 minute ago, adambr2 said:

Bauers hitting 3rd is indefensible. No matter how much we can all disagree about everything else, I think we can all agree with that. 

He's not good and he never was. It's not like he's just a good player having a bad year. He's more of a DFA candidate than a 3 hole hitter.

💯.  May have cost them the game.  Then you were forced to pinch hit with a guy who had no shot.  

[Austin Tatious]

3 minutes ago, brewfanmn said:

Before tonight, Hoskins had batted behind Chourio 1 time in the previous 21 games. Bauers hadn't done it since July.

Why the erratic decision to do it tonight then?  Zero common sense.  

[wiguy94]

Honestly what most likely happened was Murphy assumed that Marmol would leave Donovan in to face the LHP because that's what he would have done. I mean we saw it last night when Turang got to hit with the winning run on 3rd and 1 out against a LHP instead of going to the bench to hit a RHH in Monasterio or Haase.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 minute ago, brewfanmn said:

Lol in the span of 10 minutes in this thread, there are people suggesting that a team with a top-3 record and run differential in MLB both can't beat good teams, and also plays down to the level of bad teams.

I will never understand people tying themselves in knots just to be pessimistic. If you're going to distort reality, at least do it to be optimistic

I said a while ago this isn't a bad offensive team, but a very inconsistent one. The numbers, which suggest something better than inconsistent, bear that out. It IS difficult on here when a 2 or 3 game stretch of bad offense occurs because you'd think from some of the comments it's 9 or 10 games.

At 1B, Hoskins & Bauers, that's it folks. Any other options died when Tyler Black showed that his offensive game doesn't translate to this level, at least not yet. Offensively, they've hit 34 HRs between them & when they're seeing the ball well--which neither currently are--they'll draw some walks. Usually Chourio has Contreras behind him. Bauers hitting 3 or 4 has more to do with the people following him in the order than the ones preceding. If it doesn't result in him getting better, I doubt you'll see it in the post-season.

They've had games where they've put up solid ABs vs pretty good pitchers. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

30 minutes ago, yourout said:

The difference is he really struggles to get balls passed a hitter compared to Pyamps and with a runner at second I'll take the guy that is more able to strike out guys and not risk a dribbler through the middle.

I mean, yeah, I'll always take a strikeout w/runners on because you never have to make a play. But well over half the time you have to defend. The hitter put it in a perfect spot.

Payamps gave up a screamer to Goldschmidt, which was caught. Baseball.

[Brian]

3 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I said a while ago this isn't a bad offensive team, but a very inconsistent one. The numbers, which suggest something better than inconsistent, bear that out. It IS difficult on here when a 2 or 3 game stretch of bad offense occurs because you'd think from some of the comments it's 9 or 10 games.

At 1B, Hoskins & Bauers, that's it folks. Any other options died when Tyler Black showed that his offensive game doesn't translate to this level, at least not yet. Offensively, they've hit 34 HRs between them & when they're seeing the ball well--which neither currently are--they'll draw some walks. Usually Chourio has Contreras behind him. Bauers hitting 3 or 4 has more to do with the people following him in the order than the ones preceding. If it doesn't result in him getting better, I doubt you'll see it in the post-season.

They've had games where they've put up solid ABs vs pretty good pitchers. 

Agreed, inconsistent and I have no clue how that could even be addressed. Because we do have the talent that is for sure and Sonny Grey is no slouch.  But no slouches in the playoffs either. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

35 minutes ago, treego14 said:

Milner falls short in general nearly always because he has no velocity to speak of and has been very hittable all season.

No, very little velo. And he's been effective w/o it in the past. You know how? By pretty much locating the exact same way he did tonite. I guess I'm separating his season before tonite (which everyone agrees hasn't been good) with the way he worked one hitter in this game (actually two as he K'd the next man). His work turned in tonite was, to me, reminiscent of what he did last year & the year before. Whether he's suddenly going to become last years' Milner, I dunno. Probably not. But in a one-game vacuum IMO he was.

And the way to beat Baker IMO isn't with velocity unless you get 0-2 or 1-2 & can get a chase.

[Jim French Stepstool]

5 minutes ago, Brian said:

Agreed, inconsistent and I have no clue how that could even be addressed. 

Experience. Maturity. Avoiding bad habits, and when they occur recognizing & correcting them ASAP. 

This is Contreras' 3rd full season in the bigs. Among the 'major players' in the position-player group, the only ones with more experience are Bauers & Hoskins (their struggles are well-documented), Adames, and Sanchez. Offensively, the lack of whiskers on the rest probably has a lot to do with it.

[kestrel79]

You know what I'm ok with us scuffling a bit now. Better now than in the playoffs. How many teams that have won the World Series recently had some pretty bad stretches of baseball leading into the playoffs? Atlanta? The Cardinals in 2011 when they beat us? Suck now, find it and get hot right before or during the playoffs that's what I want.

[Bulldogboy]

Brewers have to hope that a Chourio Yelich Contreras lineup will generate runs next year. That said that's not going to be enough imo. 

[Brian]

Crew slip against Cards, Haase’s 438-foot HR forces extras.

Pat Murphy displayed some anxiety again on Wednesday afternoon.

Murphy’s been coaching and managing baseball teams since 1983, and he knows how quickly a hot club can go cold. Murphy also knows how quickly a cold streak can spell doom in a short postseason series. “I haven’t loved a lot of what I’ve witnessed,” Murphy said before the Brewers played, and lost, an extra-inning game for the third time in four days, this time falling, 3-2, to the Cardinals. 

In my mind we have an uphill battle, Murphy said,  "It seems like we are trying to coast uphill. You can't take your foot off the gas. The whole situation can change fast." 

[treego14]

11 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Velo doesn't have much to do with whether he's effective or not.

Totally disagree ... low velocity guys have to be precise OR ELSE they get lit up.  Hoby is not so precise, I guess.  His ineffectiveness has been on display for a lengthy time now.

[treego14]

11 hours ago, brewfanmn said:

Before tonight, Hoskins had batted behind Chourio 1 time in the previous 21 games. Bauers hadn't done it since July.

Twice in this past week!  Why?  It's madness, I say!

[treego14]

10 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

No, very little velo. And he's been effective w/o it in the past. You know how? By pretty much locating the exact same way he did tonite. I guess I'm separating his season before tonite (which everyone agrees hasn't been good) with the way he worked one hitter in this game (actually two as he K'd the next man). His work turned in tonite was, to me, reminiscent of what he did last year & the year before. Whether he's suddenly going to become last years' Milner, I dunno. Probably not. But in a one-game vacuum IMO he was.

And the way to beat Baker IMO isn't with velocity unless you get 0-2 or 1-2 & can get a chase.

Low velocity bullpen guys are not to be put in games with guys in scoring positions, especially with the track record Hoby Milner has put out there this past year.  Papa Murphy blew it!

[Underachiever]

13 hours ago, brewfanmn said:

Lol in the span of 10 minutes in this thread, there are people suggesting that a team with a top-3 record and run differential in MLB both can't beat good teams, and also plays down to the level of bad teams.

I will never understand people tying themselves in knots just to be pessimistic. If you're going to distort reality, at least do it to be optimistic

The best part for me is that it is all coming from posters who, as a group, largely predicted this team wouldn't even have a winning record, and now are worried that a top-2 seed is slipping away. Because Murphy can't coach, or the team can't hit, or the bullpen is tired, or something. All of this in spite of 130+ games that largely say otherwise.

Last night sucked. I was texting unhinged stuff to a friend instead of commenting here because I was using a lot of words that wouldn't get past Brock's filters. The Brewers just needed ONE GUY to make contact with RISP, and they all failed. But the pitching gave up three runs, kept them in the game as they have all season long. Maybe the team needs to get blown out a few times so we don't get so gut-punched by these one-run or extra-inning losses all of the time. 

[tmwiese55]

Toby move made no sense to me, one of the biggest headscratchrs all year.  Their PH was predictable so your choice was Payamps vs LH or Milner vs RH who hasn't pitched in the bigs in a month.  Just stick with the guy who had gotten 2 outs in 4 pitches.  In addition, its an extras game, after extras the day before. You might need the arms, again just roll with the guy who'd thrown 4 pitches and live with it.  

And yea the pessimism is so funny to read, they'd just had one of their best hot streaks of the years, scored 14 runs a few days ago. Lose two games in extras and the sky is falling 

[Brian]

2 hours ago, treego14 said:

Twice in this past week!  Why?  It's madness, I say!

I hate to say....but you cannot bring out your best pitchers every single game.  They are not machines that can be brought out and pitch every single game and be repaired in 24 hours to pitch the next day.

Pat Murphy and Rickie Weeks understand and do know what's at stake more than anybody here and the Brewers have a much needed day off to rest and reset after 10 games in 9 days. 

[treego14]

2 minutes ago, Brian said:

I hate to say....but you cannot bring out your best pitchers every single game.  They are not machines that can be brought out and pitch every single game and be repaired in 24 hours to pitch the next day.

Pat Murphy and Rickie Weeks understand and do know what's at stake more than anybody here and the Brewers have a much needed day off to rest and reset after 10 games in 9 days. 

My comment here had nothing to do with pitching, but rather the brain-dead use of very low batting average hitters in the 2-spot, giving our hottest/best/leadoff hitter Jackson Chourio no protection in late tight game situations.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, treego14 said:

Totally disagree ... low velocity guys have to be precise OR ELSE they get lit up.  Hoby is not so precise, I guess.  His ineffectiveness has been on display for a lengthy time now.

We'll agree to disagree, I suppose. Milner hasn't been good this season. What he did last night AFA location & pitch selection had nothing to do with his work this year, and everything to do with what he did prior to this season. You can initiate soft to moderate contact, but you can't dictate where the ball is going to go. Unless you have eight or nine guys in your BP that all throw in the upper 90s, sometimes **** happens. 

I think Milner WAS pretty precise vs Baker. Changeups outside edge to a pull hitter. With all due respect I think this is more about not liking the result than watching the process. I didn't like it either. But he got moderate to soft contact on the ground to a pull hitter w/power. Find any manager in MLB that wouldn't take his chances with that.

[treego14]

Just now, Jim French Stepstool said:

With all due respect I think this is more about not liking the result than watching the process.

No!

I called the result here in this thread BEFORE it happened BECAUSE I have been watching the process of Hoby Milner becoming a minor-league quality pitcher for some time now.

[treego14]

31 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

yea the pessimism is so funny to read, they'd just had one of their best hot streaks of the years, scored 14 runs a few days ago. Lose two games in extras and the sky is falling 

Papa Murphy has to be better as a manager if we are going to beat the big boys in the playoffs.  That's the point.

I appreciate the success given our market-size this season once again, BUT I will not accept very poor game management when it's not necessary and much better in-game-management will be needed to overcome the payroll inequities and having to face superstar/bonus baby laden teams soon!

[Brian]

2 minutes ago, treego14 said:

Papa Murphy has to be better as a manager if we are going to beat the big boys in the playoffs.  That's the point.

I appreciate the success given our market-size this season once again, BUT I will not accept very poor game management when it's not necessary and much better in-game-management will be needed to overcome the payroll inequities and having to face superstar/bonus baby laden teams soon!

All the other big boys have quadruple the payroll than the Brewers also, If anything get on Mark Attanasio.