Willy Adames goes to San Fran 7 years, $182 million

[rickh150]

No interest in any deal for him that long or even half that cost…declining SS defensively too it be seem. 

[Frisbee Slider]

1 hour ago, BrewerFan said:

The Packers aren't expected to just...let any player they draft who they hit on leaves because they can't possibly match the Cowboys, Giants, Rams, etc...

All teams in other sports can expect to lose beloved players due to salary cap.

In baseball, players leave because another team chooses to pay for someone’s performance to (often) regress in their 30’s.

Hader did not perform like a star last year. He will likely improve in 2025 but you never know. I wish Burnes well but he has had 903 high intensity innings under his belt. His health is not guaranteed.

Prince Fielder put up almost zero WAR for Texas over three years.

I am excited for Adames and don’t mind most of how MLB is structured.

[Frisbee Slider]

1 hour ago, BrewerFan said:

The Bucks, again, they didn't just reconcile themselves to the fact that Giannis was gone when he became a star because they just couldn't consider spending the money to keep them.

The Brewers kept Ryan Braun his whole career. It was generally worth it until, like all players, they regress as they age.

Adames plainly would not be a valuable enough Brewer over the next seven seasons to warrant $180 million.

Turang and Ortiz may both have more WAR than Adames in 2025.

 

[BrewerFan]

11 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

All teams in other sports can expect to lose beloved players due to salary cap.

In baseball, players leave because another team chooses to pay for someone’s performance to (often) regress in their 30’s.

Hader did not perform like a star last year. He will likely improve in 2025 but you never know. I wish Burnes well but he has had 903 high intensity innings under his belt. His health is not guaranteed.

Prince Fielder put up almost zero WAR for Texas over three years.

I am excited for Adames and don’t mind most of how MLB is structured.

You're really stretching to willfully miss the point here for...some strange reason.

-Yeah, NFL teams lose players to the salary cap. They're still all playing on a level field, right? Who was the last player the Packers lost that they wanted to keep because of cap? That's a team that plays in a market of 100K people.

-I don't care how Hader did last year as I said in the previous post.

-Prince Fielder didn't sign with the Rangers, he signed with the Tigers, he was outstanding, he got hurt and the Rangers had his contract insured...though I'm not even sure why he's being brought up?

 

You not minding how MLB is structured...in absolutely no way changes the ridiculous inequities in how MLB is structured toward other leagues. 

David Bakhtiari was injured and couldn't play most of the 4 years after signing the largest deal for an OL in NFL history. Does that in ANY WAY dispute the original point?

I also very specifically said;

Quote

 

You can rationalize why each individual deal wasn't a great deal...and that's not the point. 

 

And you responded by...talking about why they weren't great deals for...whatever reason. 

[BrewerFan]

20 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

The Brewers kept Ryan Braun his whole career. It was generally worth it until, like all players, they regress as they age.

Adames plainly would not be a valuable enough Brewer over the next seven seasons to warrant $180 million.

Turang and Ortiz may both have more WAR than Adames in 2025.

 

The comment plainly was not specific to Adames. I'm genuinely confused as to why this is a difficult concept. 

[Frisbee Slider]

The point I’m making is we should not take Adames signing with the Giants to be a data point for grievances against how MLB is structured.

[Frisbee Slider]

9 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Who was the last player the Packers lost that they wanted to keep because of cap?

Aaron Jones? Aaron Rodgers, in part because of his excessive salary.

[rickh150]

Baseball is played financially on such an imbalanced scale that it is not even worthy of discussing….so crazy different with revenues and specifically TV revenues. So many fans seem to have no idea and if they do make light of the differences in MLB payrolls and the ability to compete. Like comparing eating at McDonald’s and a fancy steakhouse, it does not compare and should not be compared.

Until the collective bargaining agreement addresses it, it is a waste to discuss. And it makes what the Brewers have been doing in the regular season over the last 6-7 years even more remarkable.

[BrewerFan]

2 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

Aaron Jones? Aaron Rodgers, in part because of his excessive salary.

No...to either. 

Neither player was let go because the Packers financially could not afford to pay their salary OR because they couldn't afford either player.

6 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

The point I’m making is we should not take Adames signing with the Giants to be a data point for grievances against how MLB is structured.

Yeah, I don't really know how this argument can be made, but...sure. 

The Brewers couldn't afford it, but it's not a data point to support that baseball continues to be the one major sport where small market teams lose their stars?

 

I'm not sure how it's NOT a data point, but...alright. 

[BrewerFan]

2 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Baseball is played financially on such an imbalanced scale that it is not even worthy of discussing….so crazy different with revenues and specifically TV revenues. So many fans seem to have no idea and if they do make light of the differences in MLB payrolls and the ability to compete. Like comparing eating at McDonald’s and a fancy steakhouse, it does not compare and should not be compared.

Until the collective bargaining agreement addresses it, it is a waste to discuss. And it makes what the Brewers have been doing in the regular season over the last 6-7 years even more remarkable.

Fair enough...we don't need to talk about it, but we don't need to pretend it doesn't exist while the Dodgers COULD spend nearly 1.5B(combined) on two players in back-to-back years(even though I don't think Soto chooses to sign with them).

 

But the part in bold is all the Brewers can realistically address and the next 6-7 look to be very competitive as well. 

[bigred]

48 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

Aaron Jones? Aaron Rodgers, in part because of his excessive salary.

GB let Jones go, mainly because of his age, and they knew they could get a better RB that's 4 years younger, for $4M less. They traded Rodgers also because of his age, and they knew he's a head case and team cancer.

[Frisbee Slider]

1 hour ago, BrewerFan said:

The Brewers couldn't afford it, but it's not a data point to support that baseball continues to be the one major sport where small market teams lose their stars?

Adames is not Giannis. 

In 2025, in terms of defense, Adames would be the third best option to play SS behind Turang and Ortiz.

Not every free agent should be resigned by Milwaukee.

I am happy the Giants believe Adames is worth $180 million. Truthfully, Adames probably is not worth that money. Especially after a few years.

[Lathund]

11 hours ago, LouisEly said:

I was told that Adames wouldn't get $50M.

Yeah just have to go back a year to see some really, really bad takes about Adames' value. I think it even got as far as some saying he would accept a QO. 

[TURBO]

11 hours ago, Frisbee Slider said:

The point I’m making is we should not take Adames signing with the Giants to be a data point for grievances against how MLB is structured.

Actually, yes, we should...

[Frisbee Slider]

6 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Actually, yes, we should...

But we shouldn’t want Adames on our roster for the next seven years, money aside. 
I expect Adames will have a nice 2025 before regressing to the point where the annual salary begins to hurt the Giants.

The Brewers should not want that.

[Thurston Fluff]

12 hours ago, Frisbee Slider said:

All teams in other sports can expect to lose beloved players due to salary cap.

In baseball, players leave because another team chooses to pay for someone’s performance to (often) regress in their 30’s.

Hader did not perform like a star last year. He will likely improve in 2025 but you never know. I wish Burnes well but he has had 903 high intensity innings under his belt. His health is not guaranteed.

Prince Fielder put up almost zero WAR for Texas over three years.

I am excited for Adames and don’t mind most of how MLB is structured.

I agree with you for the most part. The part that does bug me is we don't have a shot at free agent players in their prime like Soto or Ohtani. It also would be nice if we could afford miss on an ocaasional large contract without burying us for the next five years.

[treego14]

We have Wrigley Field in Chicago.

Let's have Rigged-League Field in Milwaukee!

[Thurston Fluff]

1 hour ago, Frisbee Slider said:

But we shouldn’t want Adames on our roster for the next seven years, money aside. 
I expect Adames will have a nice 2025 before regressing to the point where the annual salary begins to hurt the Giants.

The Brewers should not want that.

Teams who sign players for long term contracts knowing they probably won't be viable contributors on the back half do so because they can afford to eat the back end of the contract and still be competitive. That teams can afford to simply cut a player loose and eat tens of millions without hurting the product on the field by doing so is where the imbalance effects small market teams. The Giants solved their shortstop problems for the next couple seasons at the very least and all it will cost them is five years of lesser play that they can solve with more money or their farm when the time comes. The Brewers cannot do that.

[patrickgpe]

Good for Willy. When a player gives it all for the brewers and gets a better offer, I show no ill will. Part of being a brewer fan is knowing that for this team to succeed they need to continue to get controllable players via trade or reclamation projects and use them until they hit free agency. 

[nate82]

On 12/7/2024 at 4:55 PM, LouisEly said:

I was told that Adames wouldn't get $50M.

And some even said he would absolutely accept the QO if offered to him. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

8 hours ago, nate82 said:

And some even said he would absolutely accept the QO if offered to him. 

If Adames' 2024 season resembled his 2023 season, the Brewers wouldn't have even offered the QO to him.

Wishing him luck after cashing in following a really good free agent contract year of production for the Brewers, a roster that currently has 2 better defensive shortstops than Wily making pre arbitration salaries.  The Brewers got Wily's prime and are set up to move forward at the SS position very well while Adames cashes checks in SF at a much higher tax rate while his onfield production declines.

[BrewerFan]

On 12/8/2024 at 1:31 PM, patrickgpe said:

Good for Willy. When a player gives it all for the brewers and gets a better offer, I show no ill will. Part of being a brewer fan is knowing that for this team to succeed they need to continue to get controllable players via trade or reclamation projects and use them until they hit free agency. 

LOL...yes, this is OBVIOUSLY a part of being a Brewers fan.

It's almost a badge of honor. We have to do it by being smarter and better run. But everything you're describing is evidence of the initial statement. 

The original post didn't comment on SHOULD the Brewers sign Adames, is he the 3rd best defensive SS(and I just simply do NOT think Adames went from fringe GG caliber defender to a very poor defender, I think that was the result of playing between two other SS, but particularly Ortiz as he got to balls that Adames otherwise would have which would have helped his metrics. And then he went through a bumpy stretch with some errant throws. No longer term trend.

 

On 12/7/2024 at 11:34 PM, Frisbee Slider said:

Adames is not Giannis. 

In 2025, in terms of defense, Adames would be the third best option to play SS behind Turang and Ortiz.

Not every free agent should be resigned by Milwaukee.

I am happy the Giants believe Adames is worth $180 million. Truthfully, Adames probably is not worth that money. Especially after a few years.

No. Giannis in MLB terms is pretty much Juan Soto. He'd be so comically priced out of Milwaukee, we'd 

Giannis is basically Juan Soto. Again, the guy who JUST got more money in one contract than our owners net worth?

Also...absolutely nobody said he was. Probably more like...Brook Lopez, a guy we had to bid against the Rockets to give ~50M over 2 years. Was the point that if the player isn't a top 20-25 player of all-time and a transformative player, they're not a "data point?"

 

-Not every Free Agent should be re-signed by Milwaukee?

How...it's like you're entirely new to the sport and this stuff needs to be explained. It's not that we don't re-sign EVERY elite Free Agent like the Packers do or the Bucks do...provided they want to, it's that we cannot afford to sign ANY of them given the massive fiscal inequalities in the game.

 

I'm just confused how that point can be disputed because you're arguing that Adames won't be worth his deal at the end of it. That's just confirming how you've framed ALL of this in the small market Brewers perspective. In every other sport, you can eat that money and be fine.

That Aaron Rodgers that you claim we had to trade due to the cap(which we didn't). He cost more trading him with respect to the cap. We had ~70 MILLION in dead cap last year. That's basically the NFL equivalent of the bad years of a players contract. The Angels with Pujols and Hamilton, the Tigers with Miggy, whatever.

Aaron Jones? He's got a higher dead cap than all the money we Guaranteed to Josh Jacobs this year. Keeping him was about 8M vs the cap CHEAPER(and he was at the very least arguably better as a player, just older...and we have plenty of cap, we could have kept both, purely from a financial aspect). 

This year we have 65M in dead cap.

 

The Bucks and Packers have been among the highest spenders in their respective leagues. The Packers spent ~340M on players a couple years ago. 100M over that years cap by using voids and the like.

The Bucks are...without looking behind MAYBE 3 teams in total salary. 

 

All Data Points in the difference between MLB and the other major sports leagues. 

 

[BrewerFan]

19 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

If Adames' 2024 season resembled his 2023 season, the Brewers wouldn't have even offered the QO to him.

Wishing him luck after cashing in following a really good free agent contract year of production for the Brewers, a roster that currently has 2 better defensive shortstops than Wily making pre arbitration salaries.  The Brewers got Wily's prime and are set up to move forward at the SS position very well while Adames cashes checks in SF at a much higher tax rate while his onfield production declines.

Willy put up 3.3 WAR in that 2023 season. 3.0 if you want to use Bref(3.1 this year). Prior to that he'd put up a 4.3, 4.2, 1.9 and 3.9 WAR...so the record of success is pretty strong.  

Main different in Willy last year was a career-low low BABIP. xwOBA was .335, 2nd highest of his career. 

Either way...he was worth the QO and I doubt the Brewers don't offer it. 

[RobertCrawley]

On 12/7/2024 at 8:08 PM, BrewerFan said:

The comment was made that Baseball is the only major sport in which small-market teams are EXPECTED to lose their stars to large-market teams. 

Not about about being "victims," because they couldn't sign Willy Adames to this exact deal, it was a larger and pretty simple point.

The Packers aren't expected to just...let any player they draft who they hit on leaves because they can't possibly match the Cowboys, Giants, Rams, etc...

The Bucks, again, they didn't just reconcile themselves to the fact that Giannis was gone when he became a star because they just couldn't consider spending the money to keep them.

 

So no part of this statement;

...is wrong. Hader, Burnes, Williams. 

You can rationalize why each individual deal wasn't a great deal...and that's not the point. 

Sports with salary caps are a lot different than sports with without salary caps.

[homer]

6 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

 

How...it's like you're entirely new to the sport and this stuff needs to be explained. It's not that we don't re-sign EVERY elite Free Agent like the Packers do or the Bucks do...provided they want to, it's that we cannot afford to sign ANY of them given the massive fiscal inequalities in the game.

 

 

Please tone down the condescension—particularly the sentence in boldface.