Cardinals at Brewers; Saturday, September 13 @ 7:15 p.m.: Jacob Misiorowski (4.09 ERA, 3.12 FIP) vs. Sonny Gray (4.45 ERA, 3.48 FIP)

[willie key]

It seems like we always score a ton when Miz pitches.  

[Bulldogboy]

20 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I don't know what any of this validates. Joey Ortiz is going to continue to be the regular SS as long as he's healthy. And he should be. No one (at least not me) had any thoughts that Monasterio couldn't come through tonight as he did. He's put up terrific ABs lately, and put up probably the best one of the entire game to finish it. We're lucky to have him. This is about versatility, it's about attitude, it's about willingness to fill a role with a smile & the proper attitude. That crap is invaluable.

Oh, and since June 1st---well over three months--- Ortiz is hitting .265. Given his glove, most teams w/o an all-star caliber SS would play Ortiz every day if he hit quite a bit less than that.

I think we should just be thrilled to have a guy like Monasterio who fills his role so well.

 

His role is the point. It should be bigger. 

[StearnsFTW]

What a game thread.

 

I laughed, I cried..........

 

Well I mostly laughed. 

[GormanThomas]

55 minutes ago, Austin Tatious said:

Thank you!  Hard to rhyme it though!

Don't encourage him

[dlk9s]

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

16 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

His role is the point. It should be bigger. 

Certainly entitled to your opinion. 

It's kinda related to the recent Jansen-Haase debate. You'd be hard-pressed to find a GM who would value Haase over Jansen. Pretty sure it's the same thing here. And that takes nothing away from Monasterio.

[Brian]

27 minutes ago, willie key said:

It seems like we always score a ton when Miz pitches.  

Miz has a 4.35 ERA now for the year and a 6.16 ERA his last 7 outings so we have to. 

[Bulldogboy]

3 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Certainly entitled to your opinion. 

It's kinda related to the recent Jansen-Haase debate. You'd be hard-pressed to find a GM who would value Haase over Jansen. Pretty sure it's the same thing here. And that takes nothing away from Monasterio.

Mind you Anthony Siegler has had more consistent playing time than Monasterio. That's ridiculous. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

9 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

This game really isn't out of the realm of possibility yet. 

Still laughing @Sixtolezcano?

[adambr2]

6 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Certainly entitled to your opinion. 

It's kinda related to the recent Jansen-Haase debate. You'd be hard-pressed to find a GM who would value Haase over Jansen. Pretty sure it's the same thing here. And that takes nothing away from Monasterio.

I feel like we as a fanbase kind of overrate Ortiz a little bit. His glove is nice, but 26 year old shortstops with a 91 wRC+ average per season are okay, not guys you build your team around. 

If we shopped him around this winter, there would be interest, but no GM is going to fall all over themselves to acquire him.

[torts]

I ******* love this team, this was an impressive win

[RWeeksFan23]

10 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Aaaaand I'm out.

damn, you missed a good ending!

[sveumrules]

5 hours ago, Bulldogboy said:

Mind you Anthony Siegler has had more consistent playing time than Monasterio. That's ridiculous. 

Seigler got his first start on July 2nd and appeared in 34 games (17 starts with a 13 W - 4 L team record) accumulating 73 PA of 50 wRC+ before being optioned to the minors.

Over that same time frame Monasterio has appeared in 38 games (20 starts with a 12 W - 8 L team record) accumulating 84 PA of 150 wRC+ and remaining with the team.

So Monasterio has gotten more consistent playing time, been better as an individual, but it didn't really result in the team winning more.

Seigler got slightly less PT, played way worse, yet the team performed better when he got his starts.

How can one guy be 50% below average as a hitter and the team do better when he starts than it does when the guy who is 50% above average starts? Because one spot at the bottom of the lineup is about the 11th to 13th most important thing in any game after the eight spots above it, the starting pitcher, the closer, and maybe a couple other pitchers along the way too.

Ortiz will have more chances in the field than Monasterio will have at the plate is another reason why Murphy continues to choose defense over offense at the SS spot.

[Bulldogboy]

19 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Seigler got his first start on July 2nd and appeared in 34 games (17 starts with a 13 W - 4 L team record) accumulating 73 PA of 50 wRC+ before being optioned to the minors.

Over that same time frame Monasterio has appeared in 38 games (20 starts with a 12 W - 8 L team record) accumulating 84 PA of 150 wRC+ and remaining with the team.

So Monasterio has gotten more consistent playing time, been better as an individual, but it didn't really result in the team winning more.

Seigler got slightly less PT, played way worse, yet the team performed better when he got his starts.

How can one guy be 50% below average as a hitter and the team do better when he starts than it does when the guy who is 50% above average starts? Because one spot at the bottom of the lineup is about the 11th to 13th most important thing in any game after the eight spots above it, the starting pitcher, the closer, and maybe a couple other pitchers along the way too.

Ortiz will have more chances in the field than Monasterio will have at the plate is another reason why Murphy continues to choose defense over offense at the SS spot.

This was only because Ortiz got injured. Adjust this for the time prior and after the injury. It can be said Siegler was playing ahead of Monasterio easily. 

[sveumrules]

1 minute ago, Bulldogboy said:

This was only because Ortiz got injured. Adjust this for the time prior and after the injury. It can be said Siegler was playing ahead of Monasterio easily. 

Right, because the left handed hitting Seigler was spelling Durbin at 3B against certain RHP pitchers with select arm angles.

Jack Stern wrote a great article about it earlier this week.

 

[Bulldogboy]

46 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Right, because the left handed hitting Seigler was spelling Durbin at 3B against certain RHP pitchers with select arm angles.

Jack Stern wrote a great article about it earlier this week.

 

My point exactly. Although Siegler can't hit he was in a soft platoon with Durbin. Montesario could have taken the ab given to Siegler and actually been twice as productive. 

[TURBO]

Seigler was playing because Murphy wanted him as part of a platoon.  Mona was only playing mostly due to injury, that is a totally different situation if you are measuring playing time.

Seigler was a choice, Mona was because Murphy had no choice..

BIG difference.

[Jim French Stepstool]

8 hours ago, Bulldogboy said:

Mind you Anthony Siegler has had more consistent playing time than Monasterio. That's ridiculous. 

That was due mostly to the L/R thing (which IIRC you put no importance on) & trying to find an alternative to Durbin when he needed a day. I remember going on record here as saying Seigler was getting too big a piece of the pie there. He didn't produce despite what was a fairly good approach at the plate.

Monasterio can play 3rd but is looked at as more of a 2B-SS option. Ortiz being a guy you might want to hit for & (to a lesser extent) Turang being a LHH has a lot to do with that.

[Jim French Stepstool]

5 hours ago, adambr2 said:

I feel like we as a fanbase kind of overrate Ortiz a little bit. His glove is nice, but 26 year old shortstops with a 91 wRC+ average per season are okay, not guys you build your team around. 

If we shopped him around this winter, there would be interest, but no GM is going to fall all over themselves to acquire him.

Fall all over themselves? No. Just comparing him to Monasterio re overall value.

I think in large part, their defensive mindset is built around guys like him & Perkins. Come important games you'll most likely see them both out there w/a late lead. AFA building a team around him? No, of course not. I'll mention again though, he's hitting around .265 since 6/1. I know that's only one number in a plethora of analytics but it probably would surprise a lot of people to learn that. I know it surprised me.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

4 hours ago, RWeeksFan23 said:

damn, you missed a good ending!

Sure did, but I was struggling to keep my eyes open. I was unconscious before the bottom half even started.

[Nola Beery]

16 hours ago, Nola Beery said:

Finally get a game I can watch on TV, and it turns out to be unwatchable.  That's some very bad baseball. 

That did not age well. 😁😆

[Brewluver]

22 hours ago, willie key said:

Yeah.  Still a lot to go yet

Not really.

Cubs would have to go undefeated in their last 12

Brewers would have to finish off Under .500