Gamel+ for Lincecum?

[rousieboy]

Peavey is dead on...think Weeks and a player for Cain...then Escobar/Hardy/Hall/Iribarren/outsider via trade can fight it out for the SS-2B combo of the future...it makes a lot of sense...and improves our defense, keeps payroll in line, and adds a very young, strong arm already under contract for years...

 

now only if Sabean plays ball...

 

rouse

[GAME05]

i'm convinced either Hardy or Weeks won't be around next year to make room for Escobar. i'm not against trading Weeks, but i just think he's got a low value right now. and moreso, who would hit leadoff for us next year? Hart?--he seems too valuable protecting Fielder to start moving him around. Hardy is the one who's replaceable.

 

Cain is an interesting thought, and i'd almost like him over Lincecum, not as far as ability, but i think the Brewers could do just fine with a contingent of decent starters instead of just one or two top guys and filler for the rest. with our theoretically good offense, we don't necessarily need shutdown guys. Cain would be ideal.

 

but i don't really see Hall being any future candidate for SS or 2B. if we ask him to move again he's gonna go ballistic. they'd trade him first and let another team try to move him.

 

Hall and Gamel would be a good pickup for a lot of teams. i wonder if that'd be enough for someone like Lincecum, though. I'd be no giant loss for us--Hardy could move to 3rd which would fit him better for his limited range on D, and then Escobar could come up to play SS.

[splitterpfj]

For those who insist that San Fran would never deal Lincecum, and who want to know where these rumors get started - in this case, it was Tracy Ringolsby who reported last winter that Lincecum was available for "A quality bat."

 

I have no idea if he was right, but I do know Ringolsby has been covering baseball for over thirty years now, so he does at least deserve a listen when he reports something. He could have been wrong - he had also reported that Roger Clemens was headed to Boston before he signed with Houston the last time.

 

I personally wouldn't trade Lincecum, and if I did, I doubt I would do it mid-season, while he was the best drawing card on an otherwise weak team. That doesn't matter though, the Giants have yet to name me GM.

 

The Giants are in a rare position, while they need young talent at almost every position, they have the most valuable commodity of all, young pitching, to offer. The two teams look like a great match to me, the Brewers need a good arm for this season, and beyond, and the Giants need to add some bats that can help sooner than later.

 

Maybe it ends up being Cain, maybe it's something that hasn't been mentioned here yet, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see these two teams get something done.

[DrWood]

i'm convinced either Hardy or Weeks won't be around next year to make room for Escobar.

Escobar won't be ready before a late 2009 call up. His hitting in the majors would be brutal at this this point.

[GAME05]

don't really disagree with you DrWood, but with an offense as theoretically good as the Brewers', might the Crew be willing to accept his poor offense in the 8th slot for a little while, ala Pie? i'm probably thinking a lot that we might be able to get more in a trade of Weeks or Hardy at the end of this year vs. trying to trade them to a contender maybe mid-season next year. plus a trade in the off-season wouldn't throw our lineup out of whack the way a mid-season trade would. eh, or maybe i'm just anxious to trade one of the two.

[paul253]

Escobar isnt exactly tearing up Huntsville right now. I don't see the point of getting rid of Hardy just to make room for someone that offensively isnt even close to being major league ready. Hardy will still be cheap next year, so theres no reason to rush Escobar.

[Gopher74]

I think Gallardo and Lincecum are a fare comparison. No San Fran isn't competing now but then neither are the Brewers. The Brewers never traded Sheets in 03 and the Giants would be dumb to trade Lincecum now.

First of all, despite your vehement objections, the Giants have already talked about trading Lincecum showing that he's not nearly as untouchable as you claim.

 

Second, why anyone would compare the Giants and Brewers chances to contend this year is beyond me, but 6 games most certainly does not change the directions the Brewers are heading, at least(because I don't want to argue about it) the direction their front office is going to take.

 

I have to say, someone who apologizes to me while telling me "how it really is" ranks right up there on my list of pet peeves. No, our pitching isn't as good as it was with Yo. Clearly. Everyone moves up a notch. But we're playing good defense, our offense will clearly come around and which team in this division has great pitching? Did the Phillies have great pitching last year? Declaring this team dead at this point because they lost Yo, and when they've got pitchers in Parra and Villy who at least have the potential to improve a great deal is woefully premature in my opinion.

 

I'm also not sure why anyone thinks that "Bush needs to go". Not sure how many teams have a better number 5 than Dave Bush. He's certainly not the problem.

 

[Tbadder]

You know when I look at Lincecum it just scares me. i mean, I love the guy's production and his demeanor. But I can't remember even a single pitcher who throws like him and lasted ten years. I'm sure they're out there, but for the love of god I can't remember any. It just looks like one day his arm is going to go "all broken bat on him." He throws a slider, his arm separates at the shoulder, and the hitter has to skip outta the way. I'd target Cain as well.

[DrWood]

You know when I look at Lincecum it just scares me. i mean, I love the guy's production and his demeanor. But I can't remember even a single pitcher who throws like him and lasted ten years. I'm sure they're out there, but for the love of god I can't remember any. It just looks like one day his arm is going to go "all broken bat on him." He throws a slider, his arm separates at the shoulder, and the hitter has to skip outta the way. I'd target Cain as well.

I have felt like you do. When I saw him this season, it looked like he's toned things down a bit. Still, short skinny fireballers don't have a great track record at starting pitcher.

 

[jjfanec]

Along with others I am afraid of Lincecum's delivery. Even though how they pitch is different he reminds me of another young pitch the Giants had whom they shipped away...Fransico Liriano. Now, Liriano obviously never got to the majors with the Giants, but part of the reason they traded him is because they didn't think his shoulder and arm could hold up to the snap in his slider. They turned out to be right in long run, but the Twins got one great year out of Liriano and he still could come back. The Giants may feel the same way about Lincecum. They may think his arm won't hold up so why not trade him when his value is sky high. Now unlike Liriano who was a throw-in Lincecum would be the center of any deal.

I am not sure what the Giants would want for him, but the Twins traded Matt Garza, a much lesser prospect in my mind, to the Rays for Delmon Young, a highly rated bat with obvious holes in his game. What do people think it would realistically take to get Lincecum whether you want him or not? I dont think I am great at figuring out fair value in trades.

[Hate those Rodents]

Isn't Jeffress similar to Linceum in many/some aspects, at least the one's you are "worried" about? The esteemed Brewer scouting staff sure had no worries about him or they would not have drafted him so high.

[DrWood]

I haven't seen Jeffress pitch, but I thought he doesn't really strain too much to throw hard. He is a couple inches taller than Lincecum.

[Gopher74]

Along with others I am afraid of Lincecum's delivery. Even though how they pitch is different he reminds me of another young pitch the Giants had whom they shipped away...Fransico Liriano. Now, Liriano obviously never got to the majors with the Giants, but part of the reason they traded him is because they didn't think his shoulder and arm could hold up to the snap in his slider.

I'm curious where you got this from? I've never heard anything like this. The Giants trading Liriano was an awful move. He was also a throw-in in the deal and an afterthought. Not to mention Liriano's a much bigger pitcher than Lincecum.

 

I think that's an after the fact type comparison and I don't recall the Giants ever saying anything about Liriano's delivery when they dealt him or since.

[jjfanec]

I'm curious where you got this from? I've never heard anything like this. The Giants trading Liriano was an awful move. He was also a throw-in in the deal and an afterthought. Not to mention Liriano's a much bigger pitcher than Lincecum.

 

I think that's an after the fact type comparison and I don't recall the Giants ever saying anything about Liriano's delivery when they dealt him or since.

I actually heard it from some Twins fans when Liriano was dominating. Here is an article that talks about Liriano's injury history, not as much his deliver. It does not flat out say they traded him because they did not think he could hold up but I did hear that from people a couple years back, but that could have been speculation. link

 

[Postseason2006]

Where are people getting this non-sense rumor about Lincecum being available because the Giants said so? I am just curious as why a GM(Saban) would say this and is this from some beat writer? Show me the link or article and I might buy the bridge.

[jjfanec]

Where are people getting this non-sense rumor about Lincecum being available because the Giants said so? I am just curious as why a GM(Saban) would say this and is this from some beat writer? Show me the link or article and I might buy the bridge.

Lincecum was reportedly available this winter for a impact bat. Spitter referenced a report from Tracy Ringolsby in post number 27 of this thread. Here is a link from mlb.com about it link

I dont know if he would still be available but they did look at the possibility so he wasnt untouchable this past winter

[endaround]

Its just that if I'm the owner of the Giants no ay do I let Sabean trade away Linecum-he's either the future of the guy that brings talent for the future while Sabean definitely isn't the future.

[paul253]

he's either the future of the guy that brings talent for the future while Sabean definitely isn't the future.

 

I think the Giants know they are a lot more than one pitcher away from being competitive. They have some good young pitching, but if you look at the position players, Aurilla, Durham, Vizquel, Winn, Rowand, Molina, thet certainly arent getting any younger. Their top prospects are all a ways away so there doesnt seem to be a whole lot of immediate help on the way. They are stuck with Zito's HUGE contract which is going to kill them in free agent signing for a few years. I think trading away Lincecum for 3 good solid hitting prospects is what they need to do. If they got, say, Gamel (or Laporta) Escobar and Gillespie plus maybe another young pitcher like Periard ( I just looked through the top 20 and see only 5 of our top 20 prospects are SP's, and one is Rogers...scary). All 3 of those guys could be in the majors within 2 years, and play on the cheap, for what, 5 years? I think the Giants would go for it if the return was good enough.

[LouisEly]

I don't know if Lincecum is available, but I would think if Melvin called and offered Escobar (replace Vizquel), Iribarren (replace Durham), Brad Nelson (replace Aurilia), a corner OF prospect (Gillespie/Errecart), plus some other depth (Heether - can't be any worse than Castillo at 3B; Katin - struggling this year but lead the Southern League last year in HRs, RBI, and SLG), I think the Giants would seriously listen. Maybe not Lincecum, but possibly Cain. I think Escobar, Iribarren, Nelson, Gillespie, and Katin/Errecart might get it done.

 

A Nelson, Iribarren, Katin/Errecart combo might get a lower level starter like Correia or Sanchez or possibly Lowry if/when he comes back from the DL.

[southpaw121505]

Sanchez please

[southpaw121505]

I just wanted to add that I really think we need to take advantage of the Giants. They have pitching, we need pitching. We have position players, they need position players. As Louis pointed out, they have so many guys in their everyday lineup that need to be replaced, soon. I'd offer some prospect package for Sanchez, or a better package for Cain, as long as they dont include Gamel or LaPorta. I have a lot of faith in Jack Z and co. re-stocking our position player depth on the farm and most of our positions at the MLB are covered for at least 3 years anyways.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

That last post was one of the best posts I've read on brewerfan.net. It exactly summed up the situation. The Giants are a perfect trading partner right now and who knows when that time window will end. Hopefully Melvin is exchanging emails and on the phone with the Giants GM.

[recte44]

I don't know if Lincecum is available, but I would think if Melvin called and offered Escobar (replace Vizquel), Iribarren (replace Durham), Brad Nelson (replace Aurilia), a corner OF prospect (Gillespie/Errecart), plus some other depth (Heether - can't be any worse than Castillo at 3B; Katin - struggling this year but lead the Southern League last year in HRs, RBI, and SLG), I think the Giants would seriously listen. Maybe not Lincecum, but possibly Cain. I think Escobar, Iribarren, Nelson, Gillespie, and Katin/Errecart might get it done.

 

A Nelson, Iribarren, Katin/Errecart combo might get a lower level starter like Correia or Sanchez or possibly Lowry if/when he comes back from the DL.

I doubt that. There's not a sure fire proepect in that bunch. That guy is on the hot seat enough as it is than to trade an ace caliber pitcher for a bunch of spare parts.

 

 

[ILuvDaBush]

But they would be young, cheap parts, and Matt Cain is about to get expensive. And as I always say when I go all-in in poker or when I'm chugging liquid courage and about to go talk to a girl at the bar, "What's the worst that could happen?" In all honesty, I would expect to see someone from our ML team involved, maybe ZachJack or CV the Younger (or CV now...), but after today's W, I'm again on the CV train.

[rousieboy]

09:$2.65M, 10:$4.25M, 11:$6.25M club option for Matt Cain is not expensive...

 

09:$12.5M, 10:$12.5M, 11:$12.75M for Jeff Suppan is expensive...

 

Sorry folks, once again, spare parts for studs and future studs is not going to work...