Brewers trade Villanueva to Toronto for a PTBNL [Latest: Brewers get cash]

[thablingster]

I definitely wish Carlos the best. I've always had a soft spot for him, even though there were times where watching him pitch was frustrating. We'll always have the time he enraged Pujols with a fist pump and grew that ridiculous moustache.

[Sage]

I could see him platooning with Gamel at 3B if we moved McGehee.

 

Gamel has hit lefties really well in the minors, that's one of the things I like most about him. A LH bat that doesn't get just shut down by LHP.

 

Emaus looks like an attractive option. I wonder why Toronto didn't feel like he was worth a 40-man spot if he's indeed a good defender.

My calling him a good defender was based on the RTZ stat from Baseball-Reference.com, since I can't find another stat for him. Not sure how accurate it is. RTZ shows that he's been a bit better at 3B than 2B, though.

Anyway, I really like his stats. He's got 39 HR's in 4 seasons, so there's some pop there. He's also got 37 steals, with only being caught 9 times. Best part, though, is that he's struck out 220 times, and walked 212 times in 4 seasons. It would seem he's got good plate discipline.

[TooLiveBrew]

He's also got 37 steals, with only being caught 9 times.

 

Paging Runnin' Ron Roenicke -- another basestealer! I'm more than happy to have guys running wild, as long as the success rates are worth it.

[BrewCrewForever]

I was surprised by this, but it really is not a big move. I liked Carlos for the most part, but he often ran into bad streaks where he really couldn't be trusted.

[RockCoCougars]

Another victim of Macha's favoritism. I remember Macha riding him the first spring training he was here, and judging from how he was handled over the next two seasons, Carlos just never got out of the doghouse.

[JoeHova]

Sad to see Carlos go. My favorite 3 recent Brewers were Carlos, Mike Rivera, and Prince. 2 are gone now and Prince is on the way out too. That's life, I guess, but I'm not looking forward to the Prince trade.

[And That]

My favorite 3 recent Brewers were Carlos, Mike Rivera, and Prince. 2 are gone now

You'll be happy to know Rivera signed a AAA contract and will presumably battle Kottaras for the backup catching gig.

[JoeHova]

You'll be happy to know Rivera signed a AAA contract and will presumably battle Kottaras for the backup catching gig.

Nice! I am indeed happy to know that.

[Ennder]

Last year was the first time he displayed skills worth having on the roster as a RP so hopefully that was a fluke and not him showing actual improvement since we traded him.

[endaround]

I'm more worried about how all these cost cutting moves keep adding up.

[Invader3K]

I'm more worried about how all these cost cutting moves keep adding up.

Why? We haven't lost anyone of any real huge value to the team.

[HiAndTight]

Last year was the first time he displayed skills worth having on the roster as a RP so hopefully that was a fluke and not him showing actual improvement since we traded him.

3.75 xFIP in 2008

4.10 xFIP in 2009

 

Looks like he's been worthy of a spot in our pen longer than just one year.

[Ennder]

Last year was the first time he displayed skills worth having on the roster as a RP so hopefully that was a fluke and not him showing actual improvement since we traded him.

3.75 xFIP in 2008

4.10 xFIP in 2009

 

Looks like he's been worthy of a spot in our pen longer than just one year.

Those are not exactly good stats for a RP, especially the 2009 ones. 2008 FIP was 4.49, 2009 FIP was 4.28 also not good for a RP. His career HR/9 is now 1.31 in 425 IP which suggests the FIPs are probably more accurate than the xFIPs at this point. Last years 3.74 FIP, 3.39 xFIP and large jump in K/9 makes him look a lot better as a RP than we saw in the rest of his time as a Brewer.

[JoeHova]

Last year was the first time he displayed skills worth having on the roster as a RP so hopefully that was a fluke and not him showing actual improvement since we traded him.

Classy.

[HiAndTight]

Last year was the first time he displayed skills worth having on the roster as a RP so hopefully that was a fluke and not him showing actual improvement since we traded him.

3.75 xFIP in 2008

4.10 xFIP in 2009

 

Looks like he's been worthy of a spot in our pen longer than just one year.

Those are not exactly good stats for a RP, especially the 2009 ones. 2008 FIP was 4.49, 2009 FIP was 4.28 also not good for a RP. His career HR/9 is now 1.31 in 425 IP which suggests the FIPs are probably more accurate than the xFIPs at this point. Last years 3.74 FIP, 3.39 xFIP and large jump in K/9 makes him look a lot better as a RP than we saw in the rest of his time as a Brewer.

It's a little hard to keep track at times. In one thread those are good xFIP numbers(your opinion) and now with Villy he's never been worthy of a spot in our pen(which wasn't exactly filled with guys like Fingers in '08 and '09...not to mention those are a bit inflated by a bad stretch starting a couple years ago.

 

Either way, I disagree. At 500-600 K he was a fine reliever for us. AS his salary continues to increase and our young power arms continue to claim spots, he becomes more disposable, but I think you're underselling him a bit.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm more worried about how all these cost cutting moves keep adding up.

Don't worry, Melvin is probably clearing space to give a middle reliever a three

year deal. Is there anyone on the market over 32 and coming off a

career season?

 

Hopefully, Melvin has finally understood that you don't need to waste a lot of money on your bullpen. It seems that almost every year with the Brewers, it's the cheap guys who do the heavy lifting out there while the expensive guys implode.

[trwi7]

Don't worry, Melvin is probably clearing space to give a middle reliever a three year deal. Is there anyone on the market over 32 and coming off a career season?

There was Joaquin Benoit but Dave Dombrowski beat Melvin to the punch on overpaying him.

 

Another who fits that description would be none other than Grant Balfour. The bonus being that we would lose our 2nd round pick for signing him.

 

 

[Invader3K]

I really don't think he's planning on making too many bullpen moves. Last season showed everyone that we have plenty of serviceable guys for the bullpen, and there are probably more in AAA if needed. He may spend money on someone like Carl Pavano, though.

[Thurston Fluff]

Villy sort of reminds me of Nelson Figueroa in that he's not flashy or even all that good but 10 years from now he'll still be in the big leagues. If he is rounding out your staff you have a pretty good staff but if he's a key component you probably need some help. Anyway good luck to him and I will always remember him fondly as the guy who ticked off the "sleeping giants".

[CheezWizHed]

Villy had three decent years for us. But the last two have been less than stellar. He started quickly for us last year, but then stunk for 3 months before being sent to AAA.

 

And can we stop blaming Macha for "ruining" players? If he was over-using someone, ok, I'll buy the argument. But that's not the case with Villy. He played his own way to AAA. Macha actually gave him a long leash.

[RockCoCougars]

And can we stop blaming Macha for "ruining" players? If he was over-using someone, ok, I'll buy the argument. But that's not the case with Villy. He played his own way to AAA. Macha actually gave him a long leash.

I don't think Macha ruined anybody, but he did blackball guys. Off the top of my head, I can think of Gamel, McClung, Gerut and Villanueva as guys who were absolutely buried by Macha. None of these guys were talented, but they were doghoused while the team made special arrangements to get Soup his 30th start. Soup 'played his way' to DFA, but it happened a year too late. Double standard if you ask me. Macha's vindicitve nature was obvious with his parting shots to the press and benching Braun in the final game.

 

As for 'playing their way' to AAA, I'll put Billy Hall and J.J. Hardy on Melvin. Once again, if Hardy truly 'played his way' to AAA, why the heck was Escobar allowed to stink up the joint for most of 2010? I don't want to hear the 'he was young' excuse either. Hardy was in an All Star game at 24 and Escobar was 23. I thought the whole point of demoting Hardy last year was to get Escobar some seasoning (though obviously it was done to screw Hardy on his service time). If on-field performance truly counted Esocbar would have been sent down and Cruz brought up.

[CheezWizHed]

I don't think Macha ruined anybody, but he did blackball guys.

 

That may be true. But there are plenty of groaning of how Gamel was "ruined" and someone mentioned it for Villy also.

 

I'll stick to Villy, rather all the others you mentioned, but he very much earned his demotion last summer. Macha pitched him regularly (pre-demotion) and after that first month, he flopped.

[logan82]

If on-field performance truly counted Esocbar would have been sent down and Cruz brought up.

Have you looked at Cruz' stats? He stunk this year in AAA. .309 OBP. Escobar had a good year in AAA last year while Hardy stunk. Escobar and Cruz both bad this year. Cruz is a terrible hitter. There is no reason to let him ever play for us again except we have absolutely nobody at SS in the minors. Add in that Escobar was a highly touted prospect and that Cruz is nothing more than minor league filler and there is no reason to promote Cruz.

2010

Escobar .288/.326/.614

Cruz AAA .309/.414/.723

2009

Hardy .302/.357/.659

Escobar AAA .353/.409/.762

[RockCoCougars]

logan3825]

If on-field performance truly counted Esocbar would have been sent down and Cruz brought up.

Have you looked at Cruz' stats? He stunk this year in AAA. .309 OBP. Escobar had a good year in AAA last year while Hardy stunk. Escobar and Cruz both bad this year. Cruz is a terrible hitter. There is no reason to let him ever play for us again except we have absolutely nobody at SS in the minors. Add in that Escobar was a highly touted prospect and that Cruz is nothing more than minor league filler and there is no reason to promote Cruz.

2010

Escobar .288/.326/.614

Cruz AAA .309/.414/.723

2009

Hardy .302/.357/.659

Escobar AAA .353/.409/.762

Yes, but how about this:

 

2010

Hardy .320/.394/.714 (with more home runs and three fewer RBI's in about 175 less plate appearances- and about half the errors with 100 fewer chances)

[logan82]

We would have been better off keeping Hardy. That wasn't really an option considering how we treated him and Escobar was expected to be much better. Comparing our SS situation in 2009 to 2010 isn't useful or accurate. They were not the same situations at all. Based on performance alone, the move made in 2009 and lack of a move being made in 2010 made sense.