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Segura - utility player


NYChez
When Arcia takes over, instead of trading Segura for likely low return, wouldn't a better plan be to convert him into a Mark Loretta-type utility player? If Gennett stays, Jean can be a platoon player at 2nd base and also give Arcia and the future 3rd baseman a day off per week (as well as being a pinch hitting option vs. lefties). The Brewers have been looking for this type of player since Counsell became ineffective. Segura seems to be a perfect candidate for this valuable role.
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A good idea, but i'm sure Segura views himself as a starting SS and it would take some convincing for him to take that role. A guy who has been an everyday player and better than replacement level the previous 2 years wouldn't expect to become a bench-warmer now while still young. And he's definitely not a Ben Zobrist type of player; not a guy who you move around to get his bat in the lineup.
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Ya, if Segura is told he's going to be a utility player because of a rookie he's going to demand a trade immediately. Plus his D isn't all that great and his bat is pretty bad. When Arcia is ready Segura should just be gone by trade or release.

 

I'm assuming a release isn't probable.

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Segura, for all his faults, is still probably one of the best 30 shortstops in baseball. He's still young - only 25 - so he can still improve, he plays decent defense, and has plus speed. That means someone will want him as a starter, and you're probably better off waiting for someone to give you a decent offer. What a 'decent offer' is to everyone is debatable. That was discussed in a thread earlier this year - some people claiming Segura was worth a top 100 or even top 50 prospect. I'm skeptical the club can get that much for him, but they can try.

 

I think the best thing is to let Segura try and start out 2016 well - and sell high on him when Arcia is ready. You can also consider shifting him to 2B, but that might consider how guys like Scooter, Sardinas and Rivera develop over the next year.

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I'm looking at fangraphs and Segura is at 0.0 War for this year. The only SS lower than him are Starlin Castro, who is losing his job, Alexi Ramirez(don't know anything about him) and the corpse of Jimmy Rollins. Although that only lists the top 24, so there are 6 guys like JJ Hardy that aren't listed. Ahead of him at 0.5 is Elvis Andrus and at 0.8 is Ian Desmond.

 

It would seem to me that the only thing Segura has going for him is that he is cheap and he's even losing that since he will be arby eligible after this year. Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see a huge market for him.

 

I think we'll keep him until we're sure the youngsters are absolutely ready, and maybe hope he goes on another hot streak and then trade him if we're lucky. I could easily see him being released instead of going through three years of arbitration with him. If we have a cheap replacement there would be no point in keeping him on the team as a utility guy. We can get that cheaper on the market. There are always utility guys out there that aren't that much worse than Segura and that will be much cheaper.

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I do not get the Segura to 2B talk. His defense at SS is OK. Meaning if he hits decently enough for 2B, he is more valuable at SS.

 

Given Arcia should not be up next year and burning service time on what is likely the worse Brewer team in a decade, see if Segura can hit and be a decent SS option.

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Segura, for all his faults, is still probably one of the best 30 shortstops in baseball. He's still young - only 25 - so he can still improve, he plays decent defense, and has plus speed. That means someone will want him as a starter, and you're probably better off waiting for someone to give you a decent offer. What a 'decent offer' is to everyone is debatable. That was discussed in a thread earlier this year - some people claiming Segura was worth a top 100 or even top 50 prospect. I'm skeptical the club can get that much for him, but they can try.

 

I think the best thing is to let Segura try and start out 2016 well - and sell high on him when Arcia is ready. You can also consider shifting him to 2B, but that might consider how guys like Scooter, Sardinas and Rivera develop over the next year.

 

Disagree, he has some improvement to do to crack that list. There are some MiLB players like Seager, Baez and MLB 2B like Dee Gordon and Ben Zobrist I would easily take over Segura as well.

 

1 Brandon Crawford

2 Jung-ho Kang

3 Xander Bogaerts

4 Adeiny Hechavarria

5 Carlos Correa

6 Francisco Lindor

7 Andrelton Simmons

8 Alcides Escobar

9 Asdrubal Cabrera

10 Jhonny Peralta

11 Wilmer Flores

12 Brad Miller

13 Didi Gregorius

14 Jose Iglesias

15 Troy Tulowitzki

16 Freddy Galvis

17 Zack Cozart

18 Eugenio Suarez

19 Erick Aybar

20 Ryan Goins

21 Nick Ahmed

22 Marwin Gonzalez

23 Marcus Semien

24 Jose Reyes

25 Ian Desmond

26 Ruben Tejada

27 J.J. Hardy

28 Eduardo Escobar

29 Elvis Andrus

30 Jordy Mercer

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I'd like to think that given the fact that he's just 25, he has better years than 2015 ahead of him. He has too much ability for Milwaukee to waste. If Arcia's talents lead to MLB production the way most of us expect, Segura at 2b makes a lot of sense to me.
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Segura gives it his all on a daily basis. He's not good enough to be a reason a team wins, but he's good enough to play on one that does. This season tanked because the guys who were supposed lead this team, failed miserably early on, especially the two high priced starting pitchers. Segura was one of the few who was producing in April when this team sealed its fate. But his skill set isn't one that's going to carry a team.

 

The hope is Arcia is a guy who will be a cornerstone type player on a winning team. When he's ready, you shop Segura. It's pretty simple. There are going to be teams that need a SS that will be interested.

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April-May 2013. This is the only time his bat has shown to be anything other than average to below average. We can keep saying things like he's young and could get better all we want but he's had 3.5 years to get better and just hasn't. His approach at the plate is atrocious and he has shown no signs that he's willing to change. He's an adequate major league player and is just a placeholder until Arcia is ready. I can easily see him being nontendered after 2016.
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If Jean Segura demands a trade for lost playing time he is an idiot and should be sent to AAA. He has been total garbage outside of the start of 2013. Take that away and he has something like a 70 OPS+. Jean Segura is a utility player...that is if you want a a guy coming off the bench who plays average D, swings at everything, has no OBP skills, and is lucky to get 1 XBH hit in a month.

 

Elian Herrera has a higher WAR than Segura...honestly Segura is a borderline MLB utility player.

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Elian Herrera has a higher WAR than Segura...honestly Segura is a borderline MLB utility player.

 

 

Herrera has 260 fewer plate appearances, and has 5 more walks than Segura. Also, in those same 260 fewer plate appearances, he has the same number of XBH's as Segura.

 

Not to get off track, but I actually like Herrera as a utility guy. Segura....... not so much.

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Segura, for all his faults, is still probably one of the best 30 shortstops in baseball. He's still young - only 25 - so he can still improve, he plays decent defense, and has plus speed. That means someone will want him as a starter, and you're probably better off waiting for someone to give you a decent offer. What a 'decent offer' is to everyone is debatable. That was discussed in a thread earlier this year - some people claiming Segura was worth a top 100 or even top 50 prospect. I'm skeptical the club can get that much for him, but they can try.

 

I think the best thing is to let Segura try and start out 2016 well - and sell high on him when Arcia is ready. You can also consider shifting him to 2B, but that might consider how guys like Scooter, Sardinas and Rivera develop over the next year.

 

Disagree, he has some improvement to do to crack that list. There are some MiLB players like Seager, Baez and MLB 2B like Dee Gordon and Ben Zobrist I would easily take over Segura as well.

 

1 Brandon Crawford

2 Jung-ho Kang

3 Xander Bogaerts

4 Adeiny Hechavarria

5 Carlos Correa

6 Francisco Lindor

7 Andrelton Simmons

8 Alcides Escobar

9 Asdrubal Cabrera

10 Jhonny Peralta

11 Wilmer Flores

12 Brad Miller

13 Didi Gregorius

14 Jose Iglesias

15 Troy Tulowitzki

16 Freddy Galvis

17 Zack Cozart

18 Eugenio Suarez

19 Erick Aybar

20 Ryan Goins

21 Nick Ahmed

22 Marwin Gonzalez

23 Marcus Semien

24 Jose Reyes

25 Ian Desmond

26 Ruben Tejada

27 J.J. Hardy

28 Eduardo Escobar

29 Elvis Andrus

30 Jordy Mercer

 

A healthy list. I would argue that many of those guys are equal to or worse than Segura, certainly not clear-cut improvements.

 

For the record, Baseball Prospectus has Segura ranked 14th among WAR for SS this season, although Kang is not listed as a SS. Couple the production with the fact he's cheap and controllable for a couple more years and he definitely would be chosen over a number of guys on that list.

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He has been total garbage outside of the start of 2013.

 

MrTPlush, terminology like "garbage" to describe a player isn't necessary, and it's discouraged by Fan Forum Etiquette. The only thing that accomplishes is to make the board an unpleasant place to be rather than an interesting one. There are plenty of facts that you can use to support the idea that Jean's play isn't up to snuff without punctuating it by calling him "garbage."

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Elian Herrera has a higher WAR than Segura...honestly Segura is a borderline MLB utility player.

 

 

Herrera has 260 fewer plate appearances, and has 5 more walks than Segura. Also, in those same 260 fewer plate appearances, he has the same number of XBH's as Segura.

 

Not to get off track, but I actually like Herrera as a utility guy. Segura....... not so much.

 

 

This. This is quite sickening to think about really. Maybe Segura really is a below average player. Herrera does his job off the bench and in spot starts. He doesn't do things really well but he does a lot of things good enough to get by.

"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
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This. This is quite sickening to think about really. Maybe Segura really is a below average player. Herrera does his job off the bench and in spot starts. He doesn't do things really well but he does a lot of things good enough to get by.

 

 

Herrera has a .2 WAR. He's the very definition of a slightly-better- than replacement level bench player. I have no problem with the role Herrera plays on the team.

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Specific to being a utility guy, once his cost starts going up in arbitration I don't think it makes sense. You can have a guy like Sardinas do it for much cheaper. Of course the payroll will be very low already so if they're ok with paying it couldn't hurt to have him around as kind of insurance at all 3 IF positions. But you're probably better off at least getting something back for him and using someone like Sardinas. Segura likely won't get much back by himself but packaging him with Lind or Lucroy could help the return.
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When you look at rating shortstops you have to consider the financial impact as well as the future performance implications of each player.

 

Is Jose Reyes a better overall SS than Segura? Yes. But some teams would take Segura if given the option due to his youth, Reyes history of injuries, age, declining defense and huge contract.

 

Segura was producing a .650 OPS at the all-star break this year - nothing special, but starting to get near the ML average (which is .259 BA, .305 OBP, .682 OPS). Add in decent defense, his contract, some speed, and someone might find him a decent fit at SS. Again, 'might' is the key word. If he's making $3M next year that might be no big deal to one team, but a lot to another. And you probably want to see at least a bit of improvement over this year's performance to pique others interest.

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I'd have to imagine he still has the most value at SS; his defense is probably about average there so I'm not sure I understand the desire to move him.

 

Looking at his offense during 2014-2015 (arbitrary start-point, though two years out I'm not sure his 2013 should be given much weight anyway), he's one of the ten or so least productive hitters in MLB. Among qualified players he's 3rd to last in wOBA over that span.

 

So even at what I believe is his most valuable position, he's performed like a replacement-level guy. If the Arb-1 figure is going to be around $3MM that's getting close to non-tender territory, though with the club's projected finish next year I suppose it can't hurt to give him another year...

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i think given his full body of play this season and last, there's probably still some hope for somebody to think he might improve back to a .700 ops player. It won't be cheaply, or as a Brewer if it happens though...so the best course might be to trade him this offseason on that premise rather than paying him 3 million next year. I think Sardinas would probably match his stats in the bigs...Sardinas has improved in a lot of ways in AAA this year, and could still be a useful MLB player. And, unlike Segura, will cost the minimum for the next 3 years.
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The Brewers have the luxury of starting him at SS again next season, and then we'll know for sure. We all get excited when young players have a great first season, or half a season. Think they're lousy if they don't produce big numbers right away.

 

No doubt Segura, today, is barely an adequate starting SS in MLB. But players develop differently, and we don't know yet if this is Segura's ceiling or floor. Now, normally you don't wait 3 or 4 years to find out, but the Brewers are in a position to do that. Same thing with Davis and Scooter for that matter. 2016 is the year to find out what we have in these three players. None of those guys will bring back much in a trade, so I would rather roll the dice and find out if these guys can play every day or not.

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We know what we have in Gennett. We have known for years.

 

Segura, well he gets a little more expensive next year. If we can get something decent for him we should take it. It really doesn't hurt to hold onto him either.

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