Hiura Slighted and Demoted; Adames hitting #2 with a .289 OBP

[rickh150]

14 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

He sucked then too. 40% k rate, terrible in the field, hit some dingers. Meet Chris Carter. 

Check our DH OPS for 2023…

[Jopal78]

22 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

.866 BA against righties…

Higher OPS than Adames (our #2 hitter)overall…Yanked around consistently  between AAA and MLB, in the order, in the field… opposite of Adames. Still had a better OPS than Adames with inconsistent and spotty playing time.

And there is a DH in the NL… not sure if you and CC have heard that yet. You can use it each and every game. Those guys don’t play in the field.

Adames is a shortstop. As long as he plays solid defense anything he does at  the plate is gravy. Maybe the Brewers shouldn’t  hit hi  in a traditional run producing spot but who cares batting order doesn’t mean anything according to the metrics.

Pro sports is a cutthroat business. It’s hard to argue credibly Hiura was not given a chance to hold his roster spot.  Once pitchers  found out where they could throw it, and he could not hit it, nor layoff it he needed to make a counter adjustment and in 700 PAs he couldn’t figure it out simple as that. 

[owbc]

Yeah these Adames comparisons need to stop. League average OPS is .760-.765 at 1B/DH, .715 at SS. So add 50 points to Wily's OPS if you want to compare apples to apples. 

It's Tellez, Winker, Hiura. Pick 2/3. 

[Axman59]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

He sucked then too. 40% k rate, terrible in the field, hit some dingers. Meet Chris Carter. 

2016 Chris Carter would look like an All-Star compared to garbage production the Brewers have gotten from the DH position this year.

I don't think anyone is saying Keston Hiura is a great hitter or that he has a bright future. People are saying he's better than the trash currently getting PA's at DH this year and he needs to be on the roster and in the lineup for that reason.

[rickh150]

2 hours ago, Axman59 said:

2016 Chris Carter would look like an All-Star compared to garbage production the Brewers have gotten from the DH position this year.

I don't think anyone is saying Keston Hiura is a great hitter or that he has a bright future. People are saying he's better than the trash currently getting PA's at DH this year and he needs to be on the roster and in the lineup for that reason.

Here, here…100% on the nose.

[rickh150]

3 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Adames is a shortstop. As long as he plays solid defense anything he does at  the plate is gravy. Maybe the Brewers shouldn’t  hit hi  in a traditional run producing spot but who cares batting order doesn’t mean anything according to the metrics.

Pro sports is a cutthroat business. It’s hard to argue credibly Hiura was not given a chance to hold his roster spot.  Once pitchers  found out where they could throw it, and he could not hit it, nor layoff it he needed to make a counter adjustment and in 700 PAs he couldn’t figure it out simple as that. 

Batting order matters when it comes to total at bats for the year. 1982 Molitor and Yount batting #8 and #9 would have limited them several dozen at bats, giving them to Charlie Moore and Gumby.. Same thing with 18/19 Yelich.  How is this debatable? Of courts batting order matters. Maybe not to the degree some believe, sure, but come now.

And also, of course, Hiura is getting the shaft here. There is a DH spot that he could fill regularly here in the NL. The bar is super low and we have several inferior batters to him on the roster. No question that he could be helping us with our weakness.

 

[Samurai Bucky]

Winker is not the answer at DH.

Putting Yelich is not the answer at DH because we have heard from different sources that sitting on the bench between at bats messes with your head.  This is not only from the Brewers broadcast booth.  Yelich is the best hitter on the team.  Don't mess with what is working.

IMHO, it is time to bring up Hiura.  Before he gets my vote for all-star, he needs to get his K% close to 30% in the majors.  2022 saw a K% of 41.7%, with a 2021 value of 39.1%.  That is not and cannot be acceptable.  In AAA, his K% is 23.9%.  I know that is at AAA, but it is very, very encouraging.

[rickh150]

2023 Brewers DH #s to date

     29th in OPS ( .601)

     29th in BA (.204)

     4HRs in 360 PA

     35% K rate

Hiura’s 2022 MLB DH #s

    .989 OPS in 98 PA (.765 OPS overall, .866 OPS against RHP in 157 PA)

    .274 BA, 7HRs, .378 OBP (14 HRs in 266 PA)

    41% K Rate

Hiura’s 2023 AAA #s

.319 BA, 392 OBP, .982 OPS

 

[rickh150]

Only one Brewer this year has a better OPS+ than Hiura did last year.

Yelich has a better 2023 OPS+ (129) than Hiura’s 2022 OPS+ (114)

[rickh150]

On 7/6/2023 at 6:31 PM, owbc said:

Yeah these Adames comparisons need to stop. League average OPS is .760-.765 at 1B/DH, .715 at SS. So add 50 points to Wily's OPS if you want to compare apples to apples. 

It's Tellez, Winker, Hiura. Pick 2/3. 

Adames hits middle of our order. Hiura isn’t on the team. 

[Jopal78]

3 hours ago, rickh150 said:

2023 Brewers DH #s to date

     29th in OPS ( .601)

     29th in BA (.204)

     4HRs in 360 PA

     35% K rate

Hiura’s 2022 MLB DH #s

    .989 OPS in 98 PA (.765 OPS overall, .866 OPS against RHP in 157 PA)

    .274 BA, 7HRs, .378 OBP (14 HRs in 266 PA)

    41% K Rate

Hiura’s 2023 AAA #s

.319 BA, 392 OBP, .982 OPS

 

Luke Voit has anOPS of 1.000, in AAA

What is the point of highlighting AAA numbers?  They’re not indicative of being successful against major league pitching.  

[Austin Tatious]

If you put Hiura in the lineup every day in the 6th spot and put him at some combo of 1st base and DH, what do people reasonably think his stats would be this year?  .225 11 HR 30 rbi, 36% K, .730 OPS?  Something like that?   Is that better than Jesse Winker?  At what point are the Brewers yanking him around when their alternatives have failed spectacularly?

[Outlander]

If Winker doesn't get hot the remaining of this Reds series and his first return back to Great American Ballpark after the break, he never will. 

[Jopal78]

26 minutes ago, Austin Tatious said:

If you put Hiura in the lineup every day in the 6th spot and put him at some combo of 1st base and DH, what do people reasonably think his stats would be this year?  .225 11 HR 30 rbi, 36% K, .730 OPS?  Something like that?   Is that better than Jesse Winker?  At what point are the Brewers yanking him around when their alternatives have failed spectacularly?

In 2000 career PAs Winker has an .816 OPS and as recently as 2021 he had a .900+ OPS.

His career numbers are better than Hiura’s, he has been successful in the major leagues more recently, and (not unimportantly) he’s the Brewers 4th highest paid player. 
 

I’m not saying he should be on the roster; but those above facts likely form the basis of why he has remained on the roster to this point and especially vis-a-vis Hiura.

Guys who cost a small market team 10 million dollars a year (8.75 salary and 1.25 million to Seattle) are going to keep getting chances. 

[sveumrules]

50 minutes ago, Austin Tatious said:

If you put Hiura in the lineup every day in the 6th spot and put him at some combo of 1st base and DH, what do people reasonably think his stats would be this year?  .225 11 HR 30 rbi, 36% K, .730 OPS?  Something like that?   Is that better than Jesse Winker?  At what point are the Brewers yanking him around when their alternatives have failed spectacularly?

The root of the problem with Hiura is it’s hard to set reasonable expectations because his track record is full of wild fluctuations.

His main problem this year has been timing with his injury happening a couple two tree weeks before Winker went on the IL and Singleton got the call.

He also hasn’t quite regained that mojo he had pre-injury (134 PA of 156 wRC+), with 74 PA of 110 wRC+ since returning.

My guess is they give Winker until the deadline before replacing him via trade with Keston remaining more of a break glass in case of emergency option.

[StearnsFTW]

I'm pretty sure Hiura stinks, but he's unlikely to be worse than Winker, so go for it I guess 

[Austin Tatious]

Winker at some point is a sunk cost.  Arnold will have to answer for that but in the meantime you need to upgrade.  I can’t imagine another franchise thinking Winker is an attractive trade option unless it’s just a total throwaway.   I hope he’s brushing up on Korean cuisine.  

[edfunderburk]

2 hours ago, Outlander said:

If Winker doesn't get hot the remaining of this Reds series and his first return back to Great American Ballpark after the break, he never will. 

He’s not in today’s lineup against a RH pitcher … 

Not sure what this says about their (lack of) confidence in him

It seems to me we need a change at DH sooner than later

[edfunderburk]

1 hour ago, Austin Tatious said:

Winker at some point is a sunk cost.  Arnold will have to answer for that but in the meantime you need to upgrade.  I can’t imagine another franchise thinking Winker is an attractive trade option unless it’s just a total throwaway.   I hope he’s brushing up on Korean cuisine.  

Winker & Toro for Wong is a wash

I’d rather see Toro getting major league ABs at DH & 1B

I’m sad to see Winker struggle - but its time for a change

I prefer Toro over Hiura - at least temporarily - because he offers defensive flexibility

[Brewcrew82]

This thread title really needs to be changed to "Hiura Slighted and Demoted; Winker OPSing below .600 and no longer playing against RHP." Comparing Keston to Willy is silly. 

[rickh150]

47 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

This thread title really needs to be changed to "Hiura Slighted and Demoted; Winker OPSing below .600 and no longer playing against RHP." Comparing Keston to Willy is silly. 

Nah, not really.

[Brewcrew82]

2 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Nah, not really.

Your takes are consistently bizarre and wrong. Particularly on here and the NL Central thread. 

[rickh150]

20 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Your takes are consistently bizarre and wrong. Particularly on here and the NL Central thread. 

Respectfully, I appreciate your opinions, but I disagree with how Hiura is being not used. He could easily help us at DH with even last year’s numbers.

And I’m glad you are fairly cocky today because of Adames’s jacks, but defending him to be top of order bat seems odd to me when you seem cold to even having Hiura bat DH low in order. Those don’t match up for me.  But, yeah, go Adames!
 

 

[rickh150]

7 hours ago, StearnsFTW said:

I'm pretty sure Hiura stinks, but he's unlikely to be worse than Winker, so go for it I guess 

Only Yelich…. Just him this year….has a better OPS+ than Hiura did last year. Last year Hiura, folks….And I am talking about Hiura’s wacky MLB time in 2022… being yanked around….Up and down from AAA, in and out of lineup, different positions, pulled late in games, or just giving him a pinch hit at bat. 
There was a time last year when he went 12-42 (.285 BA, .884 OPS) between June 9 and July 10, 2022. He then was sent down inexcusably.
Hiura struggles with defense. Yep. 
Hiura strikes out too much. Yep. 
I just assumed that the bat still plays, especially with the DH present!!

But there is still that road for him here in 2023. The DH allows a good bat to just hit and not play the field. This bat also isn’t required to bat high in the lineup where superior bats live. Then again, maybe they don’t need any help in the DH area….. Let me check that DH OPS again.

[Axman59]

9 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Your takes are consistently bizarre and wrong. Particularly on here and the NL Central thread. 

I disagree. I'm also not sure what your post adds to the discussion. Let's focus on the Brewers and their players.