Grade the Deadline

[Brewcrew82]

10 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

The Dodgers didn’t need to do anything so they probably belong in a different category.

The Cardinals added Quintana and Montgomery to beef up their biggest weakness. It might not have been much, but it’s still more than the Brewers did.

It puzzles me how people can go from touting Hader as one of the big weapons that would give the Brewers a puncher’s chance in a playoff series to thinking Rogers isn’t much of a downgrade  

 

He literally isn't "much of a downgrade." 

 

[NBBrewFan]

D.  A GM who some claim to be one of the best can only add 4 RP at the trade deadline needs to be doing a lot better.  He got Rosenthal off the IL, he couldn't add a 5th Relief Pitcher?  Really weak Dave!

[sveumrules]

13 minutes ago, titletownking said:

and paid a hefty prospect price. 

The prospects we got back (Gasser/Ruiz) are better than the prospects we sent out (Kelly/Peters).

[phnxcrew]

Stearns gets a D.

I like the hader trade a lot, but at some point you need a run producer, or at least someone they have to semi-pitch around and improve the pitches the other hitters see in the lineup.  I have serious doubts this organization can develop hitting the way they apparently think they can since yelich and hiura are on three solid years without being fixed.  We haven’t produced anyone off the farm since what, Lucroy? Look at the 1b production since fielder left, and now we have a second position (DH) that will continue to be a black hole versus playoff contenders.  

[BruisedCrew]

1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

He literally isn't "much of a downgrade." 

 

The fact that Hader has fallen off of his pedestal to the point that he isn’t much better than a guy who has surrendered runs in 8 of his last 11 outings doesn’t exactly make the point that the Brewers have improved their playoff chances relative to the Dodgers, Braves, Mets, Padres, and Phillies, even if you think the Cardinals haven’t improved themselves either. 

[beekay414]

Brad Boxberger
Matt Bush
Jake Cousins*
Trevor Gott
Dinelson Lamet
Jake McGee
JC Mejia
Hoby Milner
Taylor Rogers
Trevor Rosenthal*
Peter Stzelecki
Brent Suter
Justin Topa*
Devin Williams

14 guys for 8 spots. Williams, Rogers, Boxberger and Bush are locks. That's 10 guys for the other 4 spots.

[bulldogboy0733]

C- No bat when this was a blinking red light need is incredible. You gave up Peters for a guy who may never pitch for you. You have to think a top 20 prospect could have got you a decent help for the outfield. If Lamet turns into another Chacin type resurrection then that helps. 

[beekay414]

WAR isn't really a great stat to gauge relievers by. Takes into account luck and what not but strand rate matters as a reliever and Josh was elite at stranding them. Rogers, well, not so much.

[LouisEly]

B-

The Brewers best opportunity is to try to replicate the 2015 Royals and turn it into a 5-6 inning game.  As I said in another thread, with Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Ashby, and Lauer, those are going to be really tough 5-6 innings for opponents.   They added a couple of guys who can help solidify innings 6-7 to get to Williams/Rogers.  I agree with people sleeping on Limet - look at what he did just two years ago.

The two "worst" spots on the team in terms of relative production are CF (23rd) and SP (18th).  Getting Peralta and Ashby back has addressed SP.  But my guess is that PIT wanted too much to move Reynolds and BAL wanted too much to move Mullins who were likely the only significant upgrades out there. 

But were they significant upgrades?  Reynolds this season has 1.5 bWAR and 1.2 fWAR in 356 PAs.  Tyrone Taylor has 0.8 bWAR/0.8 fWAR in 262 PAs; extend that to Reynolds' 356 PAs and it projects to 1.1 WAR.  Is that worth mortgaging at least two of Frelick/Mitchell/Weimer/Turang plus at least two other top-20 prospects?  Frelick/Mitchell/Weimer are going to AAA likely to see if any of them can be that CF upgrade.

The Brewers are a run prevention team.  We have to live with that.  It isn't sexy, but 2-1 wins count just as much as 6-3 wins.

[bulldogboy0733]

2 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Brad Boxberger
Matt Bush
Jake Cousins*
Trevor Gott
Dinelson Lamet
Jake McGee
JC Mejia
Hoby Milner
Taylor Rogers
Trevor Rosenthal*
Peter Stzelecki
Brent Suter
Justin Topa*
Devin Williams

14 guys for 8 spots. Williams, Rogers, Boxberger and Bush are locks. That's 10 guys for the other 4 spots.

Why do people keep adding Topa to these lists? Dude has been hurt forever. He's basically Rosenthal.

[beekay414]

Just now, bulldogboy0733 said:

Why do people keep adding Topa to these lists? Dude has been hurt forever. He's basically Rosenthal.

There's a reason there's a star next to his name...just like the guy you mentioned.

[Hopper]

6 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

The prospects we got back (Gasser/Ruiz) are better than the prospects we sent out (Kelly/Peters).

According to who?  I get it if that is your opinion, but it sounds like you are stating facts.  Are you basing that on rankings?  If so, imo, rankings mean nothing.

We gave up two promising guys from the farm, one of which, Peters, has been nothing short of excellent all season long.  Kelly has met some rough patches, but the dude is the real thing.  (imo of course)  What did we get back?  A guy on the IL who might be able to pitch this season (I think giving up Peters for him is absolutely appalling, and I really can't believe it happened, (it reeks of the Norris trade last year, but at least Norris was able to pitch at the time we got him) Bush is meh, a rental that in no way pushes us over the top, AT ALL!  I'd much rather have held on to both Kelly and Peters, rather than to trade them for guys who won't be here next year, and don't move a single needle, in any way.

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, Hopper said:

According to who?  I get it if that is your opinion, but it sounds like you are stating facts.  Are you basing that on rankings?  If so, imo, rankings mean nothing.

We gave up two promising guys from the farm, one of which, Peters, has been nothing short of excellent all season long.  Kelly has met some rough patches, but the dude is the real thing.  (imo of course)  What did we get back?  A guy on the IL who might be able to pitch this season (I think giving up Peters for him is absolutely appalling, and I really can't believe it happened, (it reeks of the Norris trade last year, but at least Norris was able to pitch at the time we got him) Bush is meh, a rental that in no way pushes us over the top, AT ALL!  I'd much rather have held on to both Kelly and Peters, rather than to trade them for guys who won't be here next year, and don't move a single needle, in any way.

Except Bush will be here next year, and the year after...

[Robocaller]

B-
The Hader and Bush trades kinda work, in tandem. I think it makes the bullpen better for the rest of the season and we got a couple of prospects. 

The Rosenthal trade makes no sense to me, unless they've seen video of him throwing 100 with good command (which is basically impossible, since he's not ready to pitch). Peters was a bright spot this season, and I think he could have been a backup in the majors. Trading from a position of strength (OF) is a good thing, but I wish we got a better player, even if we had to give up a better player.

[Brewcrew82]

9 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

The fact that Hader has fallen off of his pedestal to the point that he isn’t much better than a guy who has surrendered runs in 8 of his last 11 outings doesn’t exactly make the point that the Brewers have improved their playoff chances relative to the Dodgers, Braves, Mets, Padres, and Phillies, even if you think the Cardinals haven’t improved themselves either. 

I don't think any NL contender other than the Padres did anything that should massively affect their playoff odds. And, please, do tell me where I said the Brewers improved their playoff chances this deadline...

[Hopper]

2 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Except Bush will be here next year, and the year after...

If true, my bad, I over reacted on that detail, but I'm still against moving Peters and Kelly for those two guys.

[Robocaller]

2 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I don't think any NL contender other than the Padres did anything that should massively affect their playoff odds. And, please, do tell me where I said the Brewers improved their playoff chances this deadline...

St Louis got a new #3 and #4 starter. That will help them.

[LouisEly]

8 minutes ago, Hopper said:

We gave up two promising guys from the farm, one of which, Peters, has been nothing short of excellent all season long. 

What position(s) has Peters played this season, what % of the time has he spent at each position, and what opportunity is there at those positions?  (Hint, it's not a position that's difficult to find offensive production.)

And hasn't Ruiz been nothing short of excellent all season long at AAA and CF (versus A+ and LF)?

[MVP2110]

C-. I think we are still the favorites to win the division and anything can happen in the playoffs but I'm very underwhelmed. 

 

Trade grades

Hader for Rogers/Limet/Gasser/Ruiz 

B for value, C- overall because it makes us worse this year. 

Mathias/Kelly for Matt Bush

B+, I really like Bush the pitcher(hopefully he's over his past demons) and I'm not that upset losing Kelly

Tristan Peters for Trevor Rosenthal
D, Peters had broken out this year a little bit with the Trats so moving him for less than 2 months of a guy who hasn't pitched since 2020 is quite pricy, the Brewers must have really liked what they saw from his workout in July

 

The Brewers clearly thought their biggest weakness was their bullpen and I think that was probably right, the rotation is still elite and our lineup is currently 7th in runs per game. I think there is no question the bullpen got deeper with Rogers, Limet, Bush, & Rosenthal. But losing Hader really stings, & makes me wonder if the pen is actually "better" or just "deeper". Plus I wanted atleast a depth bat, specifically a CF and not filling that hole is questionable to me. Overall I give this deadline a C-

 

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, Robocaller said:

St Louis got a new #3 and #4 starter. That will help them.

What they really needed was a top of the rotation starter (Montas, Rodon, Castillo, etc.), and they failed to get one. Quintana and Montgomery are far from needle-movers in that regard. 

[Robocaller]

They did MASSIVELY improve the OF in Nashville. And that's what really matters, innit?

[Robocaller]

1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

What they really needed was a top of the rotation starter (Montas, Rodon, Castillo, etc.), and they failed to get one. Quintana and Montgomery are far from needle-movers in that regard. 

They had only two starting pitchers who weren't crap and now they have four.  That's a big difference. 

[BruisedCrew]

1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I don't think any NL contender other than the Padres did anything that should massively affect their playoff odds. And, please, do tell me where I said the Brewers improved their playoff chances this deadline...

I didn’t say you did say that the Brewers improved their playoff chances. But, I was hoping for a move that might improve those chances and that did not happen, so I consider the trade deadline a flop as it relates to this season. I think even you have said that the team needed to add a bat or two, and seem to be agreeing that they didn’t improve their playoff prospects for this year.

 

 

[bulldogboy0733]

6 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

What they really needed was a top of the rotation starter (Montas, Rodon, Castillo, etc.), and they failed to get one. Quintana and Montgomery are far from needle-movers in that regard. 

They are both left handed though. No accident since the Brewers are basically helpless against them and got nobody to help.

[MrTPlush]

I mean, I guess a 'C'?

We will see how Stearns approach works long term. Sure, we have been consistently competitive, but that really doesn't become that exciting if you are complete dog poop in the postseason. Since 2018, they have done absolutely nothing in the postseason. 

I don't want a roster that gets to the postseason, but can't actually win anything. You have to try and get the team over the hump, not tread water as a good team that can't ever keep up with the big boys. In theory we might be giving ourselves a better chance with more bites at the apple...but it really just isn't amounting to anything year after year. 

I mean, cool, trading Hader helps us maybe be competitive longer, but that is nothing short of a huge hit to the team come October. I don't think we really got worse in regular season terms, but I can't say I am more confident in the teams postseason abilities. Stearns isn't that magical if he can't figure out how to build a team that wins in October...sure a lot of luck is involved, but a big part is indeed how you built the team.