Cain comments on his release

[markedman5]

I love Lorenzo but this is a cheap shot.

Years and years?  He took 2020 off…….was given every chance to perform in 21 and 22 and just couldn’t. 
this from Adam Mcalvey’s Brewers beat newsletter 

Quote

“I mean, it is what it is,” Cain said. “That’s one of the reasons we kind of parted ways; I honestly feel like I never got that respect as a veteran, as a leader on this team, from certain coaches and certain upper management. That’s mostly why we parted ways when we did

Was he referring to his decreased playing time in his waning weeks with the Brewers? 

“It wasn’t [about] playing every day, because I know I was struggling a little bit,” said Cain, who was hitting .179 with a .465 OPS through 156 plate appearances at the time he was cut. “This goes back to not only this year, but years and years. It’s been three years where I’ve felt this way. I think when you mess around with that, when you’re supposed to be the leader of the team, the veteran in the clubhouse, and you don’t get that respect that you feel you should get as a leader and a veteran, I think that makes it harder for me to lead and for certain guys to also lead. Ultimately, it shows up in a big way when you go out there and play on the field

[CheezWizHed]

I'll reboot the discussion rather than try to split all new comments into this thread.  Please do remember to start new threads for new topics. Thanks!

[Robocaller]

Let's just ignore Lorenzo's sour grapes.

 

[Jopal78]

You could argue they showed him respect by giving him 80 million dollars in the first place. 

[DuWayne Steurer]

Cain always seemed like (perceptions ...) a thoughtful guy. 

disappointed that he chose to air his grievance with the team in a public way. it is what it is. 

maybe some things behind the scenes that we don't, and will never, know about. 

time to move on.

[NBBrewFan]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:24 AM, markedman5 said:

“It wasn’t [about] playing every day, because I know I was struggling a little bit,” said Cain, who was hitting .179 with a .465 OPS through 156 plate appearances at the time he was cut. “This goes back to not only this year, but years and years. It’s been three years where I’ve felt this way. I think when you mess around with that, when you’re supposed to be the leader of the team, the veteran in the clubhouse, and you don’t get that respect that you feel you should get as a leader and a veteran, I think that makes it harder for me to lead and for certain guys to also lead. Ultimately, it shows up in a big way when you go out there and play on the field

Ok. It's important to have perspective.  Hitting 0.179 with a 0.465 OPS through 156 EXCRUCIATING plate appearances, in your age 36 season after several years of declining production, is not "a little bit".  Lorenzo, you aren't struggling, you are done.  If you think that's just "a little bit" then your perspective is kinda bad.  So can we put value on your other perspectives when you have already shown an inability to call junk, junk? Sure some people have a hard time being self-critical, but many of those same people don't have an ability to perceive actions around them correctly too.

On a baseball team, leadership is earned, not given.  Maybe by action, deed or words you didn't have the leadership you expected, but that's on you, not the team. 

[dlk9s]

I'm in the "I don't care" camp. He has his perception of how he had been treated for a few years and I'm not one to criticize that, as I wasn't privy to what went on behind the scenes. At the same time, he certainly looked like he was running on fumes, so I can't blame the team for replacing him.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Didn't the team wait until he passed his ten year service time threshold to receive a full pension? I thought that was a thing they did and it seemed pretty damned nice of them to be considerate enough to think of that before releasing him.

But maybe there were grievances behind the scenes before this public statement. Either way, it all seems rather petty of Cain to do this.

[NBBrewFan]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Didn't the team wait until he passed his ten year service time threshold to receive a full pension? I thought that was a thing they did and it seemed pretty damned nice of them to be considerate enough to think of that before releasing him.

But maybe there were grievances behind the scenes before this public statement. Either way, it all seems rather petty of Cain to do this.

Yes they did.  It's weird in this day and age that there would be any significant difference in what someone with 9.9 years vs 10 years of service time gets.  It's not like they can't calculate it for every day and have a continues benefit calculation vs going with year or multi-year milestones. To me it's ironic that the MLBPA would be so upset about teams gaming the service time system and they have in place a system for benefits that makes gaming the system necessary.

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, NBBrewFan said:

Yes they did.  It's weird in this day and age that there would be any significant difference in what someone with 9.9 years vs 10 years of service time gets.  It's not like they can't calculate it for every day and have a continues benefit calculation vs going with year or multi-year milestones. To me it's ironic that the MLBPA would be so upset about teams gaming the service time system and they have in place a system for benefits that makes gaming the system necessary.

Is there a better way to do it? I know the service time pension system is heavily tiered so it's not as if Cain would have gone from zero to full benefits in a day. The healthcare benefits kick in quickly, IIRC.

Anyway, I'm not saying the current system is good, I simply haven't put thought into where it's deficient and how it should be improved.

[NBBrewFan]

11 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Is there a better way to do it? I know the service time pension system is heavily tiered so it's not as if Cain would have gone from zero to full benefits in a day. The healthcare benefits kick in quickly, IIRC.

Anyway, I'm not saying the current system is good, I simply haven't put thought into where it's deficient and how it should be improved.

For MLBPA they could do a payout based on exact service time since there isn't an employer interest in manipulating service time for pension. Historically the milestone has been used to give companies flexibility (a former colleagues spouse was layed off at 9.5 years when 10 years was the minimum for qualifying for a pension). If companies have a pretty general hiring curve and 5 year milestones then 20% of the workforce is within a year of reaching a milestone on average.  To save money those are the ones to target for staff cutbacks as they are the most cost effective. It has become almost a non-issue today as most places have moved away from pensions. Unionization often protects against those types of targeted layoffs as almost every union negotiates last in first out agreements as part of the collective bargaining.

[CheezWizHed]

I think it is really understated on how difficult it is to change companies in your career.  You grow up and earn the leadership and respect in one organization, then switch and expect things to work in a similar way, but with a bigger paycheck.  But they rarely do.  Respect and leadership are not given, they are earned and no large FA paycheck earns it. 

Even if you do feel this way, it is odd that he chose to air it out.  He is unlikely to be back in the MLB level... he is essentially retired.  There are always opportunities to come back for appearances, media events, etc... unless you burn bridges.  Not that Cain's bridge is burnt to the ground, but certainly some scorched earth.  

[monty57]

2 hours ago, NBBrewFan said:

Yes they did.  It's weird in this day and age that there would be any significant difference in what someone with 9.9 years vs 10 years of service time gets.  It's not like they can't calculate it for every day and have a continues benefit calculation vs going with year or multi-year milestones. To me it's ironic that the MLBPA would be so upset about teams gaming the service time system and they have in place a system for benefits that makes gaming the system necessary.

Here you go:

https://awmcap.com/blog/mlb-service-time#:~:text=The full pension consists of,valued at %245%2C750 per quarter.

[NBBrewFan]

1 minute ago, monty57 said:

Here you go:

https://awmcap.com/blog/mlb-service-time#:~:text=The full pension consists of,valued at %245%2C750 per quarter.

So the Brewers basically grandstanded as he would have still received 9.75 years. 

[CheezWizHed]

Imagine if they'd have cut him the day before his 10 year anniversary and how people would've vilified them for doing so.

It isn't like they make a big announcement about it and patted themselves on the back.  They clearly allowed him to celebrate a big milestone (Hooray for 9.75 years of service doesn't have the same ring to it).  Nice gestures don't have to be massive to still be nice. 

[owbc]

I get it, it sucks to lose playing time when you get older. But if it wasn't for the limited playing time he probably wouldn't have even made it to 2022. It was painful to watch him run the bases at times, even going back several years. Respecting veterans does not mean they get an infinite leash when they are costing the team wins. 

That all said...if we keep hearing complaints about Counsell/upper management, it's eventually going to be a problem. The Hader trade might have been the right statistical move but the consequences to team morale have been severe. 

[NBBrewFan]

59 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

Imagine if they'd have cut him the day before his 10 year anniversary and how people would've vilified them for doing so.

It isn't like they make a big announcement about it and patted themselves on the back.  They clearly allowed him to celebrate a big milestone (Hooray for 9.75 years of service doesn't have the same ring to it).  Nice gestures don't have to be massive to still be nice. 

Vilified?  Other than Cain and his representation was there another single person on the planet who knew that milestone was coming up?  Maybe an intern who brought it up?  I vilified them for making us watch his appearances.  I think we're reaching that there would be any outrage given he was toast at that point and he was getting paid whether he stunk it up on the field or sat at home.  

No the Brewers didn't have a huge ceremony, they let their mouthpiece (McCalvy) at mlb.com came out with it. I really don't care what the team wants to do if it doesn't impact me at all.  Having to watch Cain stink it up does impact me. They could have sat him on the bench and he could have twiddled his thumbs for the last few weeks, but CC's gotta play those vets.

[Jim French Stepstool]

13 hours ago, DuWayne Steurer said:

Cain always seemed like (perceptions ...) a thoughtful guy. 

disappointed that he chose to air his grievance with the team in a public way. it is what it is. 

maybe some things behind the scenes that we don't, and will never, know about. 

time to move on.

I remember after his first few years here, I wanted him to remain in the organization after his playing days whether it was front office, roving instructor, coach, whatever. I was THAT impressed with him as a lead-by-example guy, just an overall winner. Thinking along those lines, then reading these comments just makes this so totally bizarre to me.

Move on, indeed.

 

[Axman59]

Quote

This goes back to not only this year, but years and years. It’s been three years where I’ve felt this way. I think when you mess around with that, when you’re supposed to be the leader of the team, the veteran in the clubhouse, and you don’t get that respect that you feel you should get as a leader and a veteran, I think that makes it harder for me to lead and for certain guys to also lead

Hmmmm. I wonder what could have caused them to question him as a leader of the team?

[Team Canada]

7 hours ago, Axman59 said:

Hmmmm. I wonder what could have caused them to question him as a leader of the team?

Horse. Dead.

[rickh150]

Paid him big money this year to do nothing. He should apologize first for really bad play this year and last. Tough to lead when making big money and playing awful..,, so awful that it was beneficial for the team to pay him still while he sits at home. 
Hate this take by Cain.