Wisconsin Basketball 2022-23

[edfunderburk]

I come to this site as my primary Brewers discussion forum. I like the people on this board as much as the dialogue.

I also enjoy these additional “other” forums - Bucks, Badgers, Packers. I’m curious where all of you go for deeper dialogue for these other teams - Bucks, Badgers, Packers.  

What are the best online forums for these other teams? Be sure to include a web link.  

[RedStickBrew]

4 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

There was a time in college hoops...not so long ago, actually.....where improvement from one year to the next was in large part based on returnees getting better. Being more consistent. Adding something to their game. Benefitting from experience. In the current climate, I probably sound like I'm crawling out of a peach basket by bringing up these things. But there are different ways to improve from one year to the next, and the above points will always be vital. 

 

What I have respected most about the Badger basketball program over the last 25 years is the recruiting and development you reference and I am in no way advocating for that to change.  I am high on the incoming class and hopeful for the potential 24' and 25' classes as well.

My comment about looking at the portal is just for next year given the current state of the roster.  Gard gave an interview/presser recently about the subject and said something to the effect of- I'm not naïve, I know we need to be longer and more athletic, regardless, we need more depth there...

Many observers took that as he is open to looking in the portal for front court help this offseason. I would be in favor of that.  I don't see how the current roster makes the drastic improvement necessary or the incoming bigs make that much of an impact for next years team to be much better than this year.

 

[LouisEly]

On 2/18/2023 at 11:52 AM, Brewcrew82 said:

Yep. That and-1 they gave to Rutgers was absolutely horrendous. 

Almost as bad as the charge they called on Hepburn in the first half that wiped out a 3-point shot on the kick out.  A no call and UW has 3 more points, a flop (which is what should have been called) UW gets two free throws and the ball.

[RedStickBrew]

19 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Almost as bad as the charge they called on Hepburn in the first half that wiped out a 3-point shot on the kick out.  A no call and UW has 3 more points, a flop (which is what should have been called) UW gets two free throws and the ball.

I think I did some damage to my aorta on this sequence- it was brutal- took points off the board, Hepburn receives another foul, no free throws and lose possession. 

[RedStickBrew]

2 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

I come to this site as my primary Brewers discussion forum. I like the people on this board as much as the dialogue.

I also enjoy these additional “other” forums - Bucks, Badgers, Packers. I’m curious where all of you go for deeper dialogue for these other teams - Bucks, Badgers, Packers.  

What are the best online forums for these other teams? Be sure to include a web link.  

I post about sports nowhere but here.  I know my profile shows a newer member with few posts, but I have been a member here for over 20 years- I just created a new profile instead of transferring over my old one. And I don't enjoy posting all that much, I more enjoy lurking. There are some really informed members here.

Badger sites are pretty brutal for discussion IMO.  I belong to a couple sites but don't post anywhere. Maybe Buckyville sometimes is OK.  I have not found any Packer or Bucks sites worth posting on either.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

What I have respected most about the Badger basketball program over the last 25 years is the recruiting and development you reference and I am in no way advocating for that to change.  I am high on the incoming class and hopeful for the potential 24' and 25' classes as well.

My comment about looking at the portal is just for next year given the current state of the roster.  Gard gave an interview/presser recently about the subject and said something to the effect of- I'm not naïve, I know we need to be longer and more athletic, 

Many observers took that as he is open to looking in the portal for front court help this offseason. I would be in favor of that.  I don't see how the current roster makes the drastic improvement necessary or the incoming bigs make that much of an impact for next years team to be much better than this year.

 

Yeah, I read Gards' quote. I guess we'll have to see how things unfold. If Crowl & Wahl are both on the roster next season, I just have a hard time envisioning a significant upgrade at those two spots--or any additions-- via transfers.

There could also be knowledge on Gards' part that Wahl has decided to forego next season, or is leaning that way. Just a lot of variables.

JMO, but with the exception of Klesmit & probably Gilmore I think everyone else in their top eight has room to get better and/or more consistent.

[Jim French Stepstool]

13 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

 

Badger sites are pretty brutal for discussion IMO.  I belong to a couple sites but don't post anywhere. Maybe Buckyville sometimes is OK.  I have not found any Packer or Bucks sites worth posting on either.

I'm a member of B'Ville. I think it's a terrific site for keeping up on recruiting news, future schedules, and other inside stuff you can't normally find. There are some extremely well-connected folks on there. But I only go there for info. Haven't posted in years due to it being too toxic & unwelcoming for my taste. And IMO too many of the threads devolve into garbage due to a few too many posters thinking they're funny.

But like I said, a good place to keep up with the latest.

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

I come to this site as my primary Brewers discussion forum. I like the people on this board as much as the dialogue.

I also enjoy these additional “other” forums - Bucks, Badgers, Packers. I’m curious where all of you go for deeper dialogue for these other teams - Bucks, Badgers, Packers.  

What are the best online forums for these other teams? Be sure to include a web link.  

Sorry, I responded to RedStick instead of you. See above. As he mentioned, Buckyville has some value.

[RedStickBrew]

23 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Yeah, I read Gards' quote. I guess we'll have to see how things unfold. If Crowl & Wahl are both on the roster next season, I just have a hard time envisioning a significant upgrade at those two spots--or any additions-- via transfers.

I Agree. I'm guessing the reason why Gard could not secure the commitment from that Basile kid who is now putting up nice numbers for VA Tech is because Basile probably didn't see enough guaranteed minutes on this team.

[RedStickBrew]

27 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

JMO, but with the exception of Klesmit & probably Gilmore I think everyone else in their top eight has room to get better and/or more consistent.

This seems pretty accurate.   I believe this team averages 1 block a game.  They are getting outrebounded by their opponents by an average of 5 boards a game.  I think they are also getting outscored in the paint for the season too.  To me it points to a glaring weakness along that frontline that isn't going to be addressed by the current bench guys, incoming bigs, or Crowl improving alone.

Crowl averages 7+ boards and 0.5 blocks per game.  In my opinion they need someone to address the rim protection/shot altering missing component.  I agree those guys are hard to get- even in the portal and with NIL.

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

This seems pretty accurate.   I believe this team averages 1 block a game.  They are getting outrebounded by their opponents by an average of 5 boards a game.  I think they are also getting outscored in the paint for the season too.  To me it points to a glaring weakness along that frontline that isn't going to be addressed by the current bench guys, incoming bigs, or Crowl improving alone.

Crowl averages 7+ boards and 0.5 blocks per game.  In my opinion they need someone to address the rim protection/shot altering missing component.  I agree those guys are hard to get- even in the portal and with NIL.

The defensive rebounding has certainly been a disappointment. It's cost them some games. It's always nice to have a guy who can block/alter shots, but they're usually built around position, post feed denial, making shots as tough as possible. If a better job was done in those areas, especially on the glass, they'd probably be comfortably on the good side of the bubble.

Kai Rogers of Tosa West is a big-time shot disruptor. But there will be a ton of competition to sign him.

[Samurai Bucky]

15 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I'm a member of B'Ville. I think it's a terrific site for keeping up on recruiting news, future schedules, and other inside stuff you can't normally find. There are some extremely well-connected folks on there. But I only go there for info. Haven't posted in years due to it being too toxic & unwelcoming for my taste. And IMO too many of the threads devolve into garbage due to a few too many posters thinking they're funny.

But like I said, a good place to keep up with the latest.

As much as the people at B'Ville don't want to admit it, it is an offshoot of the old "Badgermaniac" site.  One of the prominent members of that site got frustrated with certain things and started the B'Ville site.  I joined the Badgermaniac site wayyyyyy back around the time when Barry Alvarez was thinking about going to Miami.

I agree with Jim 100% that it is very, very toxic.  If you post something that might have been said before, you are thrown under the bus.  If you try to defend a position, you are met with 10 counterpoints.  However, as Jim said, it is a good place to find out insider information.  Although, it was amusing how defensive the "insiders" on the site became when Fickell was named head coach.  Jeff Potrykus posts on the site and even he was thrown under the bus because even his sources were bamboozled.  Just like many other online communities, people live their lives on the board and are very passionate about things.

That is one thing that I appreciate bout the BrewerFanatic community -- people bring up counter points, but it isn't in the style of, "You stupid m***** f*****!"  To the mods -- keep up the great work!

[AKCheesehead]

8 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

As much as the people at B'Ville don't want to admit it, it is an offshoot of the old "Badgermaniac" site.  One of the prominent members of that site got frustrated with certain things and started the B'Ville site.  I joined the Badgermaniac site wayyyyyy back around the time when Barry Alvarez was thinking about going to Miami.

I agree with Jim 100% that it is very, very toxic.  If you post something that might have been said before, you are thrown under the bus.  If you try to defend a position, you are met with 10 counterpoints.  However, as Jim said, it is a good place to find out insider information.  Although, it was amusing how defensive the "insiders" on the site became when Fickell was named head coach.  Jeff Potrykus posts on the site and even he was thrown under the bus because even his sources were bamboozled.  Just like many other online communities, people live their lives on the board and are very passionate about things.

That is one thing that I appreciate bout the BrewerFanatic community -- people bring up counter points, but it isn't in the style of, "You stupid m***** f*****!"  To the mods -- keep up the great work!

I used to be a regular on Badgermaniac, there used to be great inside stuff there and it was entertaining.  I hadn't thought of it in a long time until the edfunderburk posted the question here.  Just went to check out Badgermaniac and apparently it's been defunct since 04 or so from the looks of it.  Oh well...

[Samurai Bucky]

15 hours ago, AKCheesehead said:

I used to be a regular on Badgermaniac, there used to be great inside stuff there and it was entertaining.  I hadn't thought of it in a long time until the edfunderburk posted the question here.  Just went to check out Badgermaniac and apparently it's been defunct since 04 or so from the looks of it.  Oh well...

BM is still going strong on Twitter.  Gets some B'Ville posters up in arms.

https://twitter.com/THEbadgermaniac

 

[Samurai Bucky]

Back to the topic at hand... 😀

I see CBS has Wisconsin first of the "First four out" while ESPN has Wisconsin last of the "Last four in".  That is about as "on the bubble" as you can get.

I'm thinking they will split the last four games.

vs. Iowa (W)
@ Michigan (L)
vs. Purdon't (L)
@ Minnesota (W)

They would need a win or two, but I don't know if the two losses above pull them down.  If they beat Purdon't, then that would help for sure.

[Oxy]

I liked it better when JD2 was starting and CE was a sparkplug off the bench.  It seems like Gard has really tried to feature CE offensively the last few weeks--and I don't blame him for the effort as the kid is going to be the goto guy at some point, but I think it's been shown that right now the team is better when CE is an opportunistic scorer rather than the main man.

Wahl's injury really threw a monkey wrench into the course of a promising looking season. He just hasn't looked the same since coming back.  Hopefully they make the Tourney anyway as it looks good on the historical record but I'm certainly not expecting much whether they get there or not.

[MrTPlush]

6 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Back to the topic at hand... 😀

I see CBS has Wisconsin first of the "First four out" while ESPN has Wisconsin last of the "Last four in".  That is about as "on the bubble" as you can get.

I'm thinking they will split the last four games.

vs. Iowa (W)
@ Michigan (L)
vs. Purdon't (L)
@ Minnesota (W)

They would need a win or two, but I don't know if the two losses above pull them down.  If they beat Purdon't, then that would help for sure.

One win is not going to do it. That’s basically saying they blow the next three games launching them well out of the picture…and beating Minnesota ain’t going to bring them back into it.

If they are currently a last four in team today, two wins probably keeps them there to end the regular season. I think they would be much to on the fringe to go winless in the Big Ten tourney though. They are probably going to need a third win, be that the regular season or in the conference tourney. If not another team that actually looks like they want to be in the tourney will bypass them.

[Jim French Stepstool]

So we're down to four games left, and things are still very, very muddy. The inconsistencies, spotty rebounding & inability to "own" the last 3-4 minutes recently are offset by the overall strength of schedule & competitiveness in most of their games, which is offset by the inconsistencies, spotty rebounding & inability to "own" the last 3-4 minutes. Lather, rinse, repeat........

Not that he's the bastion of what's right & wrong with college hoops, but I remember Dick Vitale once saying that he'd like to see teams have to finish at least .500 in their conference to get an at-large berth. It would still lead to arguments on Selection Sunday but that really isn't a bad idea. Of course he probably would've backtracked if one of Krzyzewskis' teams didn't reach that minimum.

Maybe they should look into rescheduling Grambling, That could add another win.

[Brewcrew82]

If we want to feel any semblance of safety on Selection Sunday at this point, we’d be well-served to win 3 of the next 4 games. That would put us at .500 in the BIG, which is usually the benchmark in a top 2 conference like the BIG currently is. Then, the BIG tourney would become a chance to bolster our resume and seed, as opposed to becoming a last-ditch effort. We could maybe afford a split if the two wins are Purdue and at Minnesota. 

Now, can this team actually pull this off? I am skeptical. That Rutgers loss was absolutely devastating…

 

[owbc]

IIRC, at least 3 or 4 teams usually get pushed out by upsets in the auto-bid conferences. 

Looking at that schedule and their recent play, 2/4 seems like a stretch goal, 3/4 would require a miracle. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

On 2/21/2023 at 5:53 PM, owbc said:

IIRC, at least 3 or 4 teams usually get pushed out by upsets in the auto-bid conferences. 

Looking at that schedule and their recent play, 2/4 seems like a stretch goal, 3/4 would require a miracle. 

 All the conferences get an automatic bid. If you're referring to an outstanding mid-major that would make it either way getting knocked out in their conference tourney, yeah, that "steals" a bid from someone else.

If one can assume they win in Minneapolis (the way this season has gone, you really can't), then one other win gets them the 3 out of 4. Problem is you're talking about either another road win or a win vs Purdue. I'd feel much better about the latter if Crowl was shooting from 3pt range like last season. As things stand now there's no one to pull Edey away from the hoop.

They received some really solid bench play tonite on both ends of the floor.

[RedStickBrew]

Must have win for the Badgers v. Iowa.  I think they showed some improvement overall.  I liked Hepburn getting in the lane and making some things happen. Wahl is starting to have more impact on the boards especially, but also with his offense in the post.  I think you have to also take into consideration that Iowa played pretty terrible too.  Iowa's poor overall defense and jacking-up missed 3's all night helped the Badger's cause in this one.

[owbc]

24 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

Must have win for the Badgers v. Iowa.  I think they showed some improvement overall.  I liked Hepburn getting in the lane and making some things happen. Wahl is starting to have more impact on the boards especially, but also with his offense in the post.  I think you have to also take into consideration that Iowa played pretty terrible too.  Iowa's poor overall defense and jacking-up missed 3's all night helped the Badger's cause in this one.

That was an epically bad shooting performance by Iowa, but the Badgers had the energy of a team that was playing a must win game. So I'll give credit where credit is due. Wahl did look great in the post. It's always fun to beat Iowa.

13 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

 All the conferences get an automatic bid. If you're referring to an outstanding mid-major that would make it either way getting knocked out in their conference tourney, yeah, that "steals" a bid from someone else.

Yes, that's what I was referring to -- an extra bid to a conference in which shifts everyone else down one spot on the bracketology projections. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

7 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

Must have win for the Badgers v. Iowa.  I think they showed some improvement overall.  I liked Hepburn getting in the lane and making some things happen. Wahl is starting to have more impact on the boards especially, but also with his offense in the post.  I think you have to also take into consideration that Iowa played pretty terrible too.  Iowa's poor overall defense and jacking-up missed 3's all night helped the Badger's cause in this one.

Yeah, it's really a tale of two teams (home vs road) for Iowa this season. The announcers were making a big deal of Iowas' misses from three, but UW was 1-for-whatever from long range until about 12 minutes left in the game. I agree it helped UW that Iowa settled. Wahl & others did a great job on Murray but he didn't seem to be too determined to get into the lane. It was one of those games where someone was going to have the edge heading to the stretch if they could string together a few makes, and fortunately it was UW. What made it sweeter was 3 game-turning threes, each by a different player. Balance has to be a huge part of any success going forward.

Good point re Hepburn. He did seem focused on breaking down the D on the drive whenever he could.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Jumping in on a few things:.

Big Picture:

I think the one-time transfer waiver has actually helped Bucky more than it's hurt. The really hard jobs these days are probably Dayton or VCU or Drake--really good programs in good conferences that used to really benefit from putting together a core group of players who aged together. Wisconsin can pick off guys like Klesmit (Wofford--another program that turned a strong core into an NCAA win and nearly a Sweet 16 in recent years), even if they lose other guys too.

Gard is a good coach. Wisconsin, as a team, has missed the tournament once in what? 25 years? And during a total reset year too. Gard was a big part of that, if not as head coach, then certainly as Bo's top guy. The big question is how well he'll adapt to the game's ongoing transfer, NIL revolution. He gets okay marks from me on the transfer side. If you told me Gard was going to coach for the next decade, I'd be happy about that. See Minnesota for what happens when a solid coach (Tubby) gets run out of town because fans think the team needs to be doing better than consistent tournament presence.

I still think the Badgers are in better than you think shape resume-wise. The Nebraska/Rutgers losses sting (perhaps the Nebraska one more so given the circumstances), but some good toughness shown in beating Michigan and Iowa.

The game-by-game: 

Purdue and Michigan present massive opportunities. Minnesota is a trap, all-pressure, no-reward game. I think Wisconsin needs 2 of 3 to feel pretty darn good. If you only get the Minnesota game, you're probably going to need a BTT win or two.

Impressed by McGee's recent minutes. Badgers need him to deliver some quality to spell Chuckie. As others have said, same goes for Jordan Davis. 

I'll end with this: Rooting for Iowa is probably even more annoying than rooting for Wisconsin, despite the fact the team is (I think pretty clearly) more talented. Just totally unable to get stops, especially on the road, a real Fran calling card. Badgers get this first quality, double-digit win of the year and jump 6 spots in the NET, adding Q1 wins for all those teams that have won at the Kohl.