Packers 2023 Discussion Thread

[LouisEly]

14 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

No, you listed veterans who we'd save money on if we traded them(while omitting veterans who could be traded re; money saved in a trade).

Everyone was talking about Douglas being on the trade block.

No, if you click on the link you would see that I was responding to this question:

 

[GAME05]

Starting to see Fashanu mocked to the Packers in the next draft, which makes me happy. Him plus a FA RT would make for a good OL.

I also think Dillon gets undo criticism and his numbers are only poor because of the line in front of him. I'd be happy to see him back next season, though if I were him I'd go to the Steelers or Titans or whatever team values more of a power RB.

[MrTPlush]

Yah, guys like Dillon need a decent OL so they can get some momentum going. I don’t think he is as good as he was when we drafted him, but if you give that guy a hole, he will hit the first defender and go through him. 
 

Of course, not sure we need to keep him when we seem quite likely to draft a RB fairly high and clearly we aren’t in much position to compete.

[Fear The Chorizo]

59 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Yah, guys like Dillon need a decent OL so they can get some momentum going. I don’t think he is as good as he was when we drafted him, but if you give that guy a hole, he will hit the first defender and go through him. 
 

Of course, not sure we need to keep him when we seem quite likely to draft a RB fairly high and clearly we aren’t in much position to compete.

Dillon racked up a ton of yards in college because he was their offense - they lined up in run heavy formations with the QB under center and his job was to hand it to Dillon 35+ times a game that would wear down a collegiate front 7.  I don't think there is any team in the NFL that runs that type of offense anymore given how hard it is to sustain that type of running game against defenses knowing it's coming.  So instead, Dillon has been getting most of his carries out of pistol or shotgun formations and he's just not able to get the type of momentum headed towards the line of scrimmage that he did in college.  He's a big back but not super tall, and he doesn't have the agility to make the first guy miss in the hole or be able to bounce it a little without losing all his speed and letting pursuit defenders bring him down.  In short, his running style is not a good fit in today's NFL running game that is no longer built like the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys.

Dillon was moderately effective early in his career when the Packers had a passing offense to be feared and defenses couldn't stack the box with even the standard 7 defenders - now defenses are basically daring the Packers to throw downfield by stacking boxes and playing safeties up, so there are very limited running lanes for any Packer back to exploit consistently...and that's even assuming the Oline isn't botching blocking assignments.

[LouisEly]

Agreed on Dillon.  And not just the O-line botching blocking assignments, but the TEs too (all rookies, no Marcedes Lewis).

Someone had a RB stat - I think it was Pro Football Outsiders, but they are now defunct - that was the RB equivalent of pass rush/block win rate.  It classified runs as "wins" or "success" factoring in things such as down/distance.  Don't remember if how many defenders in the box was factored in, but I know that if it was 3rd/4th and 1 and the RB got one yard it would be classified as a "win".  Any run for a 1st down or TD regardless of distance was a win.  Thus a RB could have a low YPC but have a high win rate depending on situation.

I saw a tweet on this either late last season or early in the offseason and both Jones and Dillon were top 5 in the league last year.

[homer]

 

 

[CheezWizHed]

I don't disagree about our OL and run blocking, but Dillon doesn't look like the back he was as a rookie either.  He was much better and patient about finding and picking holes.  Doing jump-cuts.  

Then last year or the year before, he started running into his blocker a WHOLE lot more.  And not just running into a line, but practically between the numbers of his OL.  Not sure if it is coaching or what... but he seems like he just runs to where the play is "supposed" to go and doesn't look to see if the hole actually opened there.  

Not that I want him dancing in the backfield... but some patience and vision has been lost the last couple years. 

[Sixtolezcano]

I’m really hoping that the Packers crash badly the rest of this season. Of their last 10 games they might be favorites in 3; @ NYG, @ CAR, and CHI. Five wins could get us into the top 5 picks. If we lose one of the above 3 games  (realistic with 2 of those games on the road) I think that might get us a chance to select Drake Maye from NC in the draft. I believe we really need to draft a QB as I don’t believe Love will be a starting NFL QB in another 2 years. It is important for the Packers have a very talented QB to continue any success we could have.
Maye has very good accuracy and field vision, two talents that Love is seriously lacking and will eventually lead to his failure to become a starting QB. Maye has prototypical size at 6’4” 230 pounds and is a very strong runner. In his 26 NCAA games his Completion Percentage is 66% with 6969 yards (8.6 yard/a) with 55 TDS and 12 INT. He has also rushed for 1219 yards with 13 TDS. This would be a perfect follow-up to Favre and Rodgers.

[nate82]

2 hours ago, Sixtolezcano said:

I’m really hoping that the Packers crash badly the rest of this season. Of their last 10 games they might be favorites in 3; @ NYG, @ CAR, and CHI. Five wins could get us into the top 5 picks. If we lose one of the above 3 games  (realistic with 2 of those games on the road) I think that might get us a chance to select Drake Maye from NC in the draft. I believe we really need to draft a QB as I don’t believe Love will be a starting NFL QB in another 2 years. It is important for the Packers have a very talented QB to continue any success we could have.
Maye has very good accuracy and field vision, two talents that Love is seriously lacking and will eventually lead to his failure to become a starting QB. Maye has prototypical size at 6’4” 230 pounds and is a very strong runner. In his 26 NCAA games his Completion Percentage is 66% with 6969 yards (8.6 yard/a) with 55 TDS and 12 INT. He has also rushed for 1219 yards with 13 TDS. This would be a perfect follow-up to Favre and Rodgers.

The Packers would have to win maybe one or two more games to have a chance at Maye.  Right now it is Williams and Maye at 1 and 2.  For the Packers to get the #1 pick they will have to lose the rest of their games and hope for the Cardinals and Panthers to win 2 more games.

The most likely scenario for the Packers is a pick within the 4-6 range which means you are not getting Maye or Williams unless you trade up. 

As it stands right now the Bears have the #2 and 3 pick in the draft.  The Bears have the Panthers and Cardinals on their schedule left and those are the only two winnable games for them.  The Bears have Lions (2), Vikings, Browns, Cardinals, Panthers, Falcons, Packers and Saints left to play.  That is at least 4 guaranteed losses with 3 maybe losses and 2 likely wins.  The most likely scenario for the Bears is probably 3-6 for the rest of the season.  That would put them at 5-12 but I think they only win 2 more games and go 4-13.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Bears only win 1 or none the rest of the year.  Fields will be out versus the Saints and it is looking like he will be out against the Panthers also.  He may return against the Lions either in week 11 or week 14.  He could also be out for the season.  If Fields is out for the season I don't see the Bears winning more than 2 games and they probably only win one or none. 

The Packers have the Rams, Steelers, Chargers, Chiefs, Lions, Giants, Buccaneers, Panthers, Bears and Vikings.  I think the likeliest scenario is the Packers going 4-6 to finish the season.  That puts the Packers at 5-12 behind the Bears if the Bears win 3 games that is which I am not sure they will.  At 5-12 you are probably looking at the #4-8 pick in the draft.  I just don't see a scenario where the Packers will be able to get in the top 2 pick range.  They would have to play worse than the Bears, Cardinals, Panthers, Patriots and Giants.  I am not sure the Packers are going to be able to do that.

The Cardinals have the toughest remaining schedule so they probably have the #1 pick all locked up right now.  The Bears more than likely will have two picks in the 2-5 range. 

[BrewerFan]

6 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I don't disagree about our OL and run blocking, but Dillon doesn't look like the back he was as a rookie either.  He was much better and patient about finding and picking holes.  Doing jump-cuts.  

Then last year or the year before, he started running into his blocker a WHOLE lot more.  And not just running into a line, but practically between the numbers of his OL.  Not sure if it is coaching or what... but he seems like he just runs to where the play is "supposed" to go and doesn't look to see if the hole actually opened there.  

Not that I want him dancing in the backfield... but some patience and vision has been lost the last couple years. 

Yes! In the outside zone scheme, you have landmarks. On the "wide zone," which is basically the entire core of our offense, it's what everything is predicated off, you're "landmark," is about 1 yard outside the OT and 1 yard behind the OT. So you're running at that angle, the OL is blocking their zone(more difficult than a more simple, power iso scheme for the OL, but better) and you look for the cutback. Or ideally you get outside, but good teams set the edge.

Dillon did that fine. Put a foot in the ground or a little jump cut and then got his shoulders square and got moving North and South and hit that hole hard.
That was in limited action as a rookie and in his 2nd year.

The last two...just sticking with that one play for example, he's just running into his OT or if there's a TE who's blocking down, he's running into that pile and he doesn't have the feet to make people miss in a phone booth.

He's got no patience so he's not seeing the hole and he has never had quick enough feet to be that elusive type of back like Jones. So what are you left with? Not even John Kuhn. Kuhn was just punishing in his limited snaps. 

 

[Sixtolezcano]

1 hour ago, nate82 said:

The Packers would have to win maybe one or two more games to have a chance at Maye.  Right now it is Williams and Maye at 1 and 2.  For the Packers to get the #1 pick they will have to lose the rest of their games and hope for the Cardinals and Panthers to win 2 more games.

The most likely scenario for the Packers is a pick within the 4-6 range which means you are not getting Maye or Williams unless you trade up. 

As it stands right now the Bears have the #2 and 3 pick in the draft.  The Bears have the Panthers and Cardinals on their schedule left and those are the only two winnable games for them.  The Bears have Lions (2), Vikings, Browns, Cardinals, Panthers, Falcons, Packers and Saints left to play.  That is at least 4 guaranteed losses with 3 maybe losses and 2 likely wins.  The most likely scenario for the Bears is probably 3-6 for the rest of the season.  That would put them at 5-12 but I think they only win 2 more games and go 4-13.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Bears only win 1 or none the rest of the year.  Fields will be out versus the Saints and it is looking like he will be out against the Panthers also.  He may return against the Lions either in week 11 or week 14.  He could also be out for the season.  If Fields is out for the season I don't see the Bears winning more than 2 games and they probably only win one or none. 

The Packers have the Rams, Steelers, Chargers, Chiefs, Lions, Giants, Buccaneers, Panthers, Bears and Vikings.  I think the likeliest scenario is the Packers going 4-6 to finish the season.  That puts the Packers at 5-12 behind the Bears if the Bears win 3 games that is which I am not sure they will.  At 5-12 you are probably looking at the #4-8 pick in the draft.  I just don't see a scenario where the Packers will be able to get in the top 2 pick range.  They would have to play worse than the Bears, Cardinals, Panthers, Patriots and Giants.  I am not sure the Packers are going to be able to do that.

The Cardinals have the toughest remaining schedule so they probably have the #1 pick all locked up right now.  The Bears more than likely will have two picks in the 2-5 range. 

I disagree. You have a much higher regard of the Packers than I do. I don’t see them winning 4 games. The most wins I see as I stated is 3 with a real possibility of less. I don’t think  they are better than the Giants, Pats, Colts, Broncos, Titans, and Cardinals ( Murray back) much less the Bears or Panthers.  Their defense and offensive have gotten worse during the easiest portion of their schedule. Love has taken a step back, with his accuracy and reading defenses (which were his same weaknesses scouts identified in college). They haven’t scored a TD in the first half since Atlanta in game 2. This team is a huge mess. It’s much too early to think that Maye goes at #2 with Marvin Harrison Jr. , Laiatu Latu, Keon Coleman, Amarius Mims, Joe Alt, J.C. Latham, Brock Bowers, and a few others. I don’t believe that Arizona will draft a QB with Kyler Murray still on the team. If the Packers and Love finish the season like I think they will and with extra 2nd and 3rd round picks I believe Maye is a real possibility. It would be foolish if he is available and Gutey passes because of his mistake picking Love 3 years ago.🤞

[BrewerFan]

On 11/1/2023 at 8:51 PM, GAME05 said:

Starting to see Fashanu mocked to the Packers in the next draft, which makes me happy. Him plus a FA RT would make for a good OL.

I also think Dillon gets undo criticism and his numbers are only poor because of the line in front of him. I'd be happy to see him back next season, though if I were him I'd go to the Steelers or Titans or whatever team values more of a power RB.

There really isn't any RT worth signing in FA. 

-Jonah Williams is a solid RT, but not a stud.
-Tyron Smith is old and injured(and an LT, but I'm being generous).
-Mekhi Becton is an absolute monster of a human, but not healthy and not an upgrade. Yosh Nijman may be the best OT available.

I'm 100% all in on Fashanu or Alt(assuming both QBs and Harrison Jr. are gone) and then taking those 2nds and moving back up for a guy like Amarius Mims or Latham. A big, athletic RT.

Your 2024 OL, Fashanu/Jenkins/Tom/?/Mims

That's an OL with a guy being compared to Orlando Pace, a 6'7 360LB mobile RT who's a monster in the run game. Jenkins...who I'm not sure of at this point. He was a stud, he's not the same. But Tom at Center...I believe he'll be a Jason Kelce type at Center and RG is the easiest position to fill. Rasheed Walker may be a better fit inside. 
OR we'll still have our 2-3rds, 4th, 3-5ths, 2-6ths, and a 7th. That's 9 more shots to improve at RB, S, IOL, CB, and the permanent mandate, DL. ALWAYS take a DL if he's the BPA after the 1st rd.

I'd consider Harrison Jr, Maye, or Williams, but it's unlikely we're high enough for any of those three.

There's also no way you can know Love is or isn't the guy yet even if you get Caleb Williams or Maye.

Interestingly, Maye is passing Williams on many mocks. I think Williams' problem at this level is that he's just bored or maybe it's that he's looking for the big play all the time. Could be a bad habit, but I saw him throw three picks scrambling and extending the play looking downfield more. But I've also seen enough where he takes those easy plays.  

 

This draft has 5-6 truly rare players. 
Williams and Maye, we all know.
Harrison Jr is again, one of those once-in-a-generation type talents at WRer people talk about, but it's seldom true. In his case, 6'4, sub 4.4, with body control of his much smaller father.
Fashanu- Again, compared to a HOF LT, Orlando Pace
Alt- Just watch this dude play. He's 6'8, but he is athletic, he moves like a TE, but also resets the LOS, gets to the 2nd level, he absolutely DOMINATED JT Tuimoloau, a guy who's in most top 50s on the big boards and Jack Sawyer, an edge who's another NFL prospect. 
Brock Bowers- He's probably 

I've paid far less attention to the likes of Turner or Kool Aid or Verse from FSU. I don't think we're going edge or CB(or WRer other than Harrison Jr).

[BrewerFan]

13 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

I disagree. You have a much higher regard of the Packers than I do. I don’t see them winning 4 games. The most wins I see as I stated is 3 with a real possibility of less. I don’t think  they are better than the Giants, Pats, Colts, Broncos, Titans, and Cardinals ( Murray back) much less the Bears or Panthers.  Their defense and offensive have gotten worse during the easiest portion of their schedule. Love has taken a step back, with his accuracy and reading defenses (which were his same weaknesses scouts identified in college). They haven’t scored a TD in the first half since Atlanta in game 2. This team is a huge mess. It’s much too early to think that Maye goes at #2 with Marvin Harrison Jr. , Laiatu Latu, Keon Coleman, Amarius Mims, Joe Alt, J.C. Latham, Brock Bowers, and a few others. I don’t believe that Arizona will draft a QB with Kyler Murray still on the team. If the Packers and Love finish the season like I think they will and with extra 2nd and 3rd round picks I believe Maye is a real possibility. It would be foolish if he is available and Gutey passes because of his mistake picking Love 3 years ago.🤞

I'd say normally any team NOT taking a QB but picking 1st or 2nd overall would trade that pick as they'd likely be able to get future 1sts, but... a team may value one of these players so highly. 

I don't think most of the players you mentioned would fit that criteria though. I think it'd be Harrison Jr, or Fashanu, maybe Alt based on the pre-draft process. 

I don't know if I'd pass on Maye(or Williams)....but I wouldn't go up and go out of my way to get either. I still really believe Love can be a good QB, he just needs talent around him. The rate at which guys are running the wrong routes or blowing blocking assignments, he's got no chance out there. 

We've seen the arm talent, we've seen the athletic ability...and if he truly sucks, we'll still suck after building an OL and another 12-player draft.

I also really can't make an argument FOR passing up on either for Love. Maye's talent is... comparable from a physical standpoint as Love, he's more refined at this point and he'll be under contract for 5 years. Caleb Williams is a more athletic Aaron Rodgers type of player. Throws from all platforms, athletic. You can never count on someone being as good as Rodgers, but again, 5 years. 

 

Ultimately, you're just limited when you're OL is this bad and you don't have WRers who can be where they're expected to be WHEN they're expected to be. Watching the All-22 with Love really shows you just how many times it's not his fault and it's not even like if he was a superstar he could make the play, there's just nothing there. Maybe Lamar or someone who could run, but look at Mahomes in KC. He's the best QB in the league, but they're struggling offensively and they have Kelce and some vets(and an OL). 

 

Also, I see you have Latham and Mims listed among the top picks. I've seen Mims mocked in the ~late 1st-mid 2nd range. I expect that changes, but that's what I'm talking about. Packaging the 2nds to a team that wants to move back and taking Mims after Fashan/Alt. 

I think you could win with Justin Fields if you have a 1995 Dallas Cowboys OL. That has to be the focus IF you don't get that QB.

[nate82]

34 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

I disagree. You have a much higher regard of the Packers than I do. I don’t see them winning 4 games. The most wins I see as I stated is 3 with a real possibility of less. I don’t think  they are better than the Giants, Pats, Colts, Broncos, Titans, and Cardinals ( Murray back) much less the Bears or Panthers.  Their defense and offensive have gotten worse during the easiest portion of their schedule. Love has taken a step back, with his accuracy and reading defenses (which were his same weaknesses scouts identified in college). They haven’t scored a TD in the first half since Atlanta in game 2. This team is a huge mess. It’s much too early to think that Maye goes at #2 with Marvin Harrison Jr. , Laiatu Latu, Keon Coleman, Amarius Mims, Joe Alt, J.C. Latham, Brock Bowers, and a few others. I don’t believe that Arizona will draft a QB with Kyler Murray still on the team. If the Packers and Love finish the season like I think they will and with extra 2nd and 3rd round picks I believe Maye is a real possibility. It would be foolish if he is available and Gutey passes because of his mistake picking Love 3 years ago.🤞

All mocks have Williams and Maye going 1-2.  It is possible that Harrison goes #2 but the Packers would have to be picking #3 if they are not they are not getting Maye or Williams.  The two best players in the draft are Williams and Maye as this is a QB league.  Harrison is a special talent but the NFL places so much value on QB's that I just don't see a team passing on either Williams or Maye with the #1 or #2 pick.  Harrison will be the firs WR drafted but I don't believe he will go #2 unless the Bears are picking 1 and 2. 

The Cardinals also only have maybe one winnable game against the Texans or Bears.  Everyone else they play are .500 or better. 

If you have watched any Cardinals games you should know they absolutely suck and probably shouldn't have won a game so far this year.  The Packers have a far better team than the Cardinals.  The Bears are playing their backup QB who didn't even get drafted.  The Bears defense is still a patch work of bad even with Sweat added.  If you think the Packers safeties suck just check the Bears safeties out.  Also the Bears pass rush a wet blanket would get more sacks and QB pressures than this team.

Only Moore and Mooney have really contributed offensively for the Bears.  Kmet has been fine but the QB can't get to the second or third read before they are sacked or getting pressured.  Fields may miss the rest of the season with his thumb injuries.  Even with Love being as bad as he has he isn't as bad as the Bears backup QB. 

I just don't see the Packers losing out which is what they will have to do to get the #1 or #2 pick in the draft.  It is just not happening.  The #3 pick is also only about a 40% chance of happening.  Just looking at the schedules I just don't see the other teams winning enough.  The Cardinals probably only have one win on their schedule.  The Packers are not going to finish 3-14 or 2-15 they just won't.  They are not bad enough to finish like that as the other teams they are battling are far worse than they are.  The Packers have at least two wins against the Bears and Panthers then they probably have another against the Giants.  That is three wins right there and that takes them out of the top 3 picks and puts them at 4 or 5. 

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, nate82 said:

The Cardinals also only have maybe one winnable game against the Texans or Bears.  Everyone else they play are .500 or better. 

If you have watched any Cardinals games you should know they absolutely suck and probably shouldn't have won a game so far this year.  The Packers have a far better team than the Cardinals.  The Bears are playing their backup QB who didn't even get drafted.  The Bears defense is still a patch work of bad even with Sweat added.  If you think the Packers safeties suck just check the Bears safeties out.  Also the Bears pass rush a wet blanket would get more sacks and QB pressures than this team.

It's the NFL, they definitely have more than "maybe one winnable game left," when you literally just cited two.

They're also getting their star QB back. They have at least 5 "winnable" games left. And I'm not sure how much you've seen them. They've been competitive in several games and at least hung around vs some of the best. And that was without Kyler Murray. 

The Bears have the same record as the Packers. It's odd that we're zeroing in on Safety play, but Eddie Jackson, their AP has played 31 snaps since week 1 and is on schedule to be back this week. Otherwise...you're talking about two groups of sub-par safeties with not a whole lot of difference...unless Jackson is back. 

4 hours ago, nate82 said:

 

I just don't see the Packers losing out which is what they will have to do to get the #1 or #2 pick in the draft.  It is just not happening.  The #3 pick is also only about a 40% chance of happening.  Just looking at the schedules I just don't see the other teams winning enough.  The Cardinals probably only have one win on their schedule.  The Packers are not going to finish 3-14 or 2-15 they just won't.  They are not bad enough to finish like that as the other teams they are battling are far worse than they are.  The Packers have at least two wins against the Bears and Panthers then they probably have another against the Giants.  That is three wins right there and that takes them out of the top 3 picks and puts them at 4 or 5. 

Again, Cards are getting their QB back, and...you've watched the NFL long enough to know you cannot POSSIBLY script this out with 9 weeks left in the season. 

Again, the Cards could VERY reasonably beat the Browns, Falcons, Texans, Rams, the Seahawks the last week of the season.

Hell, they could beat the 49ers who have lost 3 straight to the Browns, Vikings, and Bengals. 

 

I'm not predicting the Packers end up with the 1st or 2nd pick...they could just as easily end up with the 12th, but your rationale in how you get there is deeply flawed claiming the Cards only have one possible win left...and trying to project the last half of the season. We just saw the Texans win the last game of the year last year. 

You could easily look at the Packers' schedule and say they've only got 1 or maybe 2 wins left. Given the huge dropoff in Love's play since their 2 wins in the first 3 weeks(mostly due to the OL getting hurt/struggling and the WRers being terrible). 

There is WAY too much season to go and WAY too many massive upsets nearly every week to be this confident about the Bears and Cardinals not winning more than 1-2 more games left. 

[GAME05]

Packers wouldn't take Maye even if he's available to us. Gute and MLF won't stick their necks out to admit defeat on their guy Love and the added job insecurity that comes with that. And maybe I'm wrong but it doesn't feel like those two are particularly close to being replaced just yet.

[LouisEly]

10 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Fashanu- Again, compared to a HOF LT, Orlando Pace

Fashanu didn't look good against OSU and Tuimoloau.  Got pushed back into the QB several times.  I think those comparisons have cooled a bit, and some mocks have him slipping down to mid-end 1st.  PFF has a 78.6 grade overall on him, with a 59.1 grade against OSU.  Alt has an 89.9 grade, 69.5 against OSU. 

[young guns]

Our best shot at picking top 2 sadly includes keeping Barry as d coordinator.  So we should probably start saying our goodbyes to him

[SeaBass]

5 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

It's the NFL, they definitely have more than "maybe one winnable game left," when you literally just cited two.

They're also getting their star QB back. They have at least 5 "winnable" games left. And I'm not sure how much you've seen them. They've been competitive in several games and at least hung around vs some of the best. And that was without Kyler Murray. 

The Bears have the same record as the Packers. It's odd that we're zeroing in on Safety play, but Eddie Jackson, their AP has played 31 snaps since week 1 and is on schedule to be back this week. Otherwise...you're talking about two groups of sub-par safeties with not a whole lot of difference...unless Jackson is back. 

Again, Cards are getting their QB back, and...you've watched the NFL long enough to know you cannot POSSIBLY script this out with 9 weeks left in the season. 

Again, the Cards could VERY reasonably beat the Browns, Falcons, Texans, Rams, the Seahawks the last week of the season.

Hell, they could beat the 49ers who have lost 3 straight to the Browns, Vikings, and Bengals. 

 

I'm not predicting the Packers end up with the 1st or 2nd pick...they could just as easily end up with the 12th, but your rationale in how you get there is deeply flawed claiming the Cards only have one possible win left...and trying to project the last half of the season. We just saw the Texans win the last game of the year last year. 

You could easily look at the Packers' schedule and say they've only got 1 or maybe 2 wins left. Given the huge dropoff in Love's play since their 2 wins in the first 3 weeks(mostly due to the OL getting hurt/struggling and the WRers being terrible). 

There is WAY too much season to go and WAY too many massive upsets nearly every week to be this confident about the Bears and Cardinals not winning more than 1-2 more games left. 

James Conner is also eligible to come off IR for the Cardinals in week 10 and while there aren't any reports that he definitely will there seems to be a feeling that he should be ready to go.

Another point regarding the Packers v. Bears "who is better" is that the Bears were the first team to face the Packers with Love as the QB this season. Once the Packers had played a couple games there was tape on how they played with Love at QB and in a bit of an understatement it sure seems like they've been struggling more on offense since then. The Bears didn't have the benefit of studying tape, they were going in blind.

[CheezWizHed]

6 hours ago, GAME05 said:

Packers wouldn't take Maye even if he's available to us. Gute and MLF won't stick their necks out to admit defeat on their guy Love and the added job insecurity that comes with that. And maybe I'm wrong but it doesn't feel like those two are particularly close to being replaced just yet.

You don't think Gute will draft a 1st round QB while already having one? 

He has made some comments about Love recently, so I'm guessing he would be open to it.  Frankly, if we had one of the top 2 picks (and considering how bad we would be to fall that far), I'd hope he'd run to the podium to draft one of them.

[Sixtolezcano]

6 hours ago, GAME05 said:

Packers wouldn't take Maye even if he's available to us. Gute and MLF won't stick their necks out to admit defeat on their guy Love and the added job insecurity that comes with that. And maybe I'm wrong but it doesn't feel like those two are particularly close to being replaced just yet.

That’s what I’m afraid of. Gutey hates to cut any of his higher draft picks and admit defeat no matter how evident it is that his pick is a failure. That is his biggest drawback and is the major difference between him and such highly rated GMs such as John Lynch, Brandon Beane, Howie Roseman, and Eric DeCosta. It is apparent that Love is no better than an average (or worse) NFL QB. He has very poor accuracy (57.2% the lowest of any starter) and he either over throws and under throws his passes consistently (especially deep passes and short passes) he doesn’t read defenses well (not aware of finding open receivers and throwing into double or triple coverage) and has bad decision making skills (3.4 % INT/%). He is rated 22 in QBR. No matter how poorly his surrounding players are, it is evident he isn’t a very good QB. These are not the traits of even an average QB.  I don’t think Gutey can wait around to hope and pray that he will magically improve to become an average QB. 

[LouisEly]

6 hours ago, Sixtolezcano said:

That’s what I’m afraid of. Gutey hates to cut any of his higher draft picks and admit defeat no matter how evident it is that his pick is a failure.

Were you one of the people who were calling for Davante Adams to get cut his second training camp?  That would have worked out really well.

J'Mon Moore didn't survive his second training camp.

Jace Sternberger was waived in the middle of his third season.

Kamal Martin didn't survive his second training camp.

Amari Rodgers was released in the middle of his second season.

But, the narrative...

[BrewerFan]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:13 PM, LouisEly said:

Were you one of the people who were calling for Davante Adams to get cut his second training camp?  That would have worked out really well.

J'Mon Moore didn't survive his second training camp.

Jace Sternberger was waived in the middle of his third season.

Kamal Martin didn't survive his second training camp.

Amari Rodgers was released in the middle of his second season.

But, the narrative...

Right. That is just TOTALLY made up out of nowhere.

People don't like Gute because he drafted Love(I guess...really no other good reason) so they're convincing themselves he wouldn't cut bait and take a top 2 QB.

The idea he doesn't cut high picks who fail quickly enough comes from nowhere.

[adambr2]

29 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Right. That is just TOTALLY made up out of nowhere.

People don't like Gute because he drafted Love(I guess...really no other good reason) so they're convincing themselves he wouldn't cut bait and take a top 2 QB.

The idea he doesn't cut high picks who fail quickly enough comes from nowhere.

I mean pretty much the whole 2020 Packer draft class sucked. The 2021 class pretty much sucked. It's hard to say he's found much impact in the draft since Gary in 2019. So I don't think that Love is the only reason, and if it is - well, Gutekunst always had a lot of his reputation staked in Love, for better or worse. Many here have said that numerous times. 

If you trade up in the 1st round to draft your future QB to replace Aaron Rodgers and he spends 3 years in the system and he does not work out for you, that is an enormous reflection on your GM. And I'm not saying he hasn't worked out yet, we still don't know, but if he doesn't? Absolutely, it's a massive hit to Gutekunst's reputation and could cost him his job. I don't think we can pretend otherwise. 

[Sixtolezcano]

1 hour ago, BrewerFan said:

Right. That is just TOTALLY made up out of nowhere.

People don't like Gute because he drafted Love(I guess...really no other good reason) so they're convincing themselves he wouldn't cut bait and take a top 2 QB.

The idea he doesn't cut high picks who fail quickly enough comes from nowhere.

No I was the one to have some patience with Rashan Gary. But you must of been disappointed when they got rid of Datone Jones, when you said he would be the second coming of Reggie White.

Josh Jackson, DB        3 seasons

Oren Burks, LB            4 seasons

Royce Newman, OL      2+ seasons and counting

 

NARRATIVE….lol