Packers 2023 Discussion Thread

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, BrewerFan said:

Yeah, he'd get caught up in the wash a bit, but I tend to believe that's more the result of the DL play. With this DL playing well, you see McDuffie, Campbell, and Quay all have free lanes, the OL isn't getting to the next level as easily or as quickly. 

Kenny Clark has been outstanding...in the base or the nickel(they've been stopping the run out of the nickel well enough also). Slaton has been good, and Wyatt has really improved. 

Sure... but any MLB can make a play if no OL is on him.  A MLB (especially in the 3-4) is going to have to deal with OL at times.  But Walker often looked like he was watching the ball and then engulfed by a guard and run out of the play.  At least here he saw the guy coming and kept himself off the block (by !!! means, to boot).  Hope that is a growth point for him. 

[BrewerFan]

40 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

The Jet's version of "How do they keep getting away with it?" with Favre/Rodgers made me LOL. 

Hey...we'll give them another HOFer in...~15 years. Lets say 17 with the rules protecting the QB😁

I don't want to keep spamming these, but you can skip to 9 minutes here(if you'd like). The Vikings fan is just despondent...and it is BEAUTIFUL!

 

[LouisEly]

By far the biggest offseason need is safety.  The only guys under contract next year are Johnson and Zayne Anderson; everyone else is an unrestricted free agent.

Given that they will be drafting no lower than #19, they're in a great spot to get either Cooper DeJean or Kamren Kinchens without reaching.  Will probably have to move up from #41 to get Tyler Nubin, but with two picks in the 2nd and 3rd I think they are going to move up from #41 anyway. 

Moving up to get Alt or Fashanu will cost at least #19, #41, and a 3rd.  Just too much.  Quick, way-too-early guesses based just off of PFF rankings:

#19: DeJean, Kinchens, McKinstry
#41: Patrick Paul, Tyler Nubin, Byron Murphy
#52: Powers-Johnson, Denzel Burke, Brenden Rice
#83: Javon Bullard, Braden Fiske, Sedrick Van Pran
#92: Khyree Jackson, Donovan Edwards, Jaden Hicks
#120: Ray Davis, Kamal Hadden, Javon Foster

Looks like Lazard getting benched at the end of the season might push his comp pick down to the 5th round,

[BrewerFan]

43 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

Sure... but any MLB can make a play if no OL is on him.  A MLB (especially in the 3-4) is going to have to deal with OL at times.  But Walker often looked like he was watching the ball and then engulfed by a guard and run out of the play.  At least here he saw the guy coming and kept himself off the block (by !!! means, to boot).  Hope that is a growth point for him. 

Yeah, they can, but there's a difference between him and McDuffie shooting the gap(for instance). They can both do it, but Walker has better timing and the athletic ability to slip blocks.

It's not about NO OL being in front of him, it's if it's Wyatt and instead of maintaining his gap, he gets outside of it, the OT can handle him and the OG is immediately climbing. That's what makes it tough. I remember it was either the same year or a year apart, people were talking about Ray Lewis and Urlacher both declining. They drafted Ngata and Tommie Harris and each returned to AP level play.

Walker had to get better at shedding, but that position, like RB, is dependent on their respective lines(IMO).

[igor67]

I'll just flat out say, I don't think our young WR develop nearly as well if Rodgers is still the QB. I think he is at a point were he can't work well because he is too used to his own way and thinking about a bunch of stuff that just overwhelms younger players to the point it's counter productive.

[BrewerFan]

4 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Moving up to get Alt or Fashanu will cost at least #19, #41, and a 3rd.  Just too much.  Quick, way-too-early guesses based just off of PFF rankings:

I totally disagree. Getting an elite, AP-caliber LT is well worth 19, 41, and a 3rd. Especially in a year in which you have an additional 2nd and 3rd. 

I don't think it'll happen because the teams sitting in those positions need a LT themselves and I think it'd actually take more than that to move up to get Alt(hopefully there are a run of QBs). 

 

They're lucky that Zach Tom gives them options. I think Fuaga will be an outstanding RT and that allows you to kick Tom over to LT. You may have to move up a few spots.

Safety is the biggest weakness, but it's also the easiest position on defense to fill. 

I wouldn't touch McKinstry. Dejean would be alright as he can cover and help out immediately on STs, but I think you have to upgrade the OL first. If this whole year was dependent on Love and we're all happy just given what we saw from him...it'd make more sense to me to give him help and a young OL. 

I'd still even double up there with Runyan gone. Fuaga/Mims in Rd 1 and then come back with Barton, Bebbe, Amegadjie, someone like that in Rd 2@ 41.

There are a lot of safeties in the 60-100 range they could target who could help. Bishop, Brade, Bullock(not my favorite, more of a CF type S). 

Aside from DeJean, I think it'll depend on what they do at DC to some degree. James Williams is another interesting player who they could look at in the 3rd. 

[LouisEly]

32 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

I totally disagree. Getting an elite, AP-caliber LT is well worth 19, 41, and a 3rd.

Oh, I agree - an elite, All-Pro caliber LT is worth 19, 41, and a 3rd...

... assuming they actually develop into that elite, AP-caliber LT.  But you have to account for risk.  Maybe they can't stick at LT (McGlinchey, Conklin, Scherff, Gallery), maybe they get injured (Becton, Derek Sherrod), maybe they develop a medical condition (concussions, heart issue), maybe they can't adapt to the pro game (Joeckel, Jason Smith) or get in legal trouble and are out of the league in 4-5 years.

In the event that they don't become that elite LT, three high picks were used to get a player who isn't worth three high picks.   Trading more than two high picks for a player often doesn't work out.

[CheezWizHed]

2 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Yeah, they can, but there's a difference between him and McDuffie shooting the gap(for instance). They can both do it, but Walker has better timing and the athletic ability to slip blocks.

It's not about NO OL being in front of him, it's if it's Wyatt and instead of maintaining his gap, he gets outside of it, the OT can handle him and the OG is immediately climbing. That's what makes it tough. I remember it was either the same year or a year apart, people were talking about Ray Lewis and Urlacher both declining. They drafted Ngata and Tommie Harris and each returned to AP level play.

Walker had to get better at shedding, but that position, like RB, is dependent on their respective lines(IMO).

I'm not sure what you are trying to contend here... The video was Walker seeing an OL coming at him and countering (and knocking him on his butt).  My observation was Walker is often oblivious to OL and getting taken out of the play.  It has nothing to do how the DLs play.  It is about Walker's vision as he makes his way to the ball carrier and countering those that get in his way. 

No matter how good your DL is, your MLB will have to counter OL at some point and get off blocks. 

[BrewerFan]

Just now, LouisEly said:

Oh, I agree - an elite, All-Pro caliber LT is worth 19, 41, and a 3rd...

... assuming they actually develop into that elite, AP-caliber LT.  But you have to account for risk.  Maybe they can't stick at LT (McGlinchey, Conklin, Scherff, Gallery), maybe they get injured (Becton, Derek Sherrod), maybe they develop a medical condition (concussions, heart issue), maybe they can't adapt to the pro game (Joeckel, Jason Smith) or get in legal trouble and are out of the league in 4-5 years.

In the event that they don't become that elite LT, three high picks were used to get a player who isn't worth three high picks.   Trading more than two high picks for a player often doesn't work out.

Alt is about as sure a thing as any player I've ever seen.  I have never watched a college player and been more convinced they'd be an immediate impact player and a star.

I don't think he's got any character issues and he's only played LT for a couple of years. ND has a really good RT in Blake Fischer(who I'd happily take in the 4th). He was an elite recruit. Alt was a TE. At 6'8, he transitioned to LT, beat out Fischer after he started as a Freshmen. Alt just moves sooo smoothly and dominates in the pass game, in the run game. He moves people and he walls off. Vs OSU, they've got two edges who'll get drafted and he absolutely locked down Jt Tuimoloau. He looked like a young Tyron Smith.

He's not 380 like Becton. He's not a clown and I don't think you worry about legal trouble. 

Fashanu has the upside and he has the risk. I don't think there is much risk with Alt. But I'm not a scout, I'll leave it up to the Packers...and as I said, if I am right, he'll be out of reach even with 19, 41 and 82. 

[BrewerFan]

21 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

I'm not sure what you are trying to contend here... The video was Walker seeing an OL coming at him and countering (and knocking him on his butt).  My observation was Walker is often oblivious to OL and getting taken out of the play.  It has nothing to do how the DLs play.  It is about Walker's vision as he makes his way to the ball carrier and countering those that get in his way. 

No matter how good your DL is, your MLB will have to counter OL at some point and get off blocks. 

I'm simply saying there is a direct correlation between DL play and the play of your MLBer. That it makes a big difference when the OL has to take an extra beat or two on their initial combo block at the LOS before going after the LBer...and that the DL has gotten better as well. 

[CheezWizHed]

The Packers and Cowboys tied a record for the most head-to-head meetings in the playoffs at 9.  Among the other team pairs that have played 9 times in the playoffs are the Cowboys-49ers and Packers-49ers. 

So yes... the Packers-49er game will set the record with 10 playoff head-to-head meetings.

[HarveysWBs]

Love has more road playoff wins than Patrick Mahomes.  Really makes you think…

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, HarveysWBs said:

Love has more road playoff wins than Patrick Mahomes.  Really makes you think…

LOL...even in the SBs he's won they've been the home team and vs the Buccs, they were the road team.

It tells me something! Not entirely sure what, but something!

[LouisEly]

9 hours ago, HarveysWBs said:

Love has more road playoff wins than Patrick Mahomes.  Really makes you think…

The Packers have more playoff wins at AT&T Stadium than the Cowboys do.

(Not including a Super Bowl win.)

[RobDeer 45]

I spent some time on the Cowboys and Bears message boards the last few nights and boy was that entertaining.  I've never seen so much swearing and attacking of other posters on a message board.  Pretty funny.  Also made me thankful for the community here.  The boards I visited are extremely toxic.  

Still in disbelief over how that game played out.  Go Pack!

[CheezWizHed]

28 minutes ago, RobDeer 45 said:

I spent some time on the Cowboys and Bears message boards the last few nights and boy was that entertaining.  I've never seen so much swearing and attacking of other posters on a message board.  Pretty funny.  Also made me thankful for the community here.  The boards I visited are extremely toxic.  

Still in disbelief over how that game played out.  Go Pack!

We had LambeauLeap years ago and I did whatever I could to keep it alive.  I had been to other Packer boards and saw the same thing.  When it was clear that LL.net had died, I advocated for the "Other Sports" area here (separated from "Off Topic"). 

Maybe not as much traffic as a Packer board would be... but still SO much nicer than the unmanaged boards. 

[Samurai Bucky]

2 hours ago, RobDeer 45 said:

Also made me thankful for the community here.  The boards I visited are extremely toxic.  

I certainly want to echo this sentiment.  This is why I don't post as often on certain Badger sites as I used to.

Thank you, mods, for slapping people on the wrist privately when needed (I was the recipient of one such slap, btw).

[GAME05]

Tom Grossi summed it up will in his last "If the NFL Were Scripted" video. All the other teams were arguing about what was fair and what should happen, so the script writer turned to the Packers who stood there with a big, dumb grin and said "I'm just happy to be here."

 

 

[yourout]

Sounds like McCarthy is going to survive for one more season.

But I'm betting his seat will be hot from pretty much day one next year.

[CheezWizHed]

11 hours ago, yourout said:

Sounds like McCarthy is going to survive for one more season.

But I'm betting his seat will be hot from pretty much day one next year.

It is a bit of a conundrum for MM.  He is one of the better coaches in the NFL (I think top 10 is about right).  But he has a history of playoff chokes (not just losses, but really embarrassing ones). So Jones either has to roll the dice on someone new and upcoming or convince a Belichek or similar coach that comes available to run the show. 

He has a strong roster (granted, I'm not a Dak believer) and he isn't getting any younger.  Sticking with MM is probably one of his better of few decent options. 

[CheezWizHed]

I was just thinking about the improvement and the solid job that Rasheed Walker did at LT this year. Much (appropriately) has been said about Tom at RT (who has a huge challenge with Bosa this week).  But Walker has shown strong and steady improvement as the year went on.  Seems like the rotation with Nijman was a kick-in-the-pants he needed as he took off after that. 

I would still count LT and S as our two biggest targets for draft day, but I'd think that Walker's improvement prevents us from needing to go after an LT if there isn't a good one within reach. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, CheezWizHed said:

I was just thinking about the improvement and the solid job that Rasheed Walker did at LT this year. Much (appropriately) has been said about Tom at RT (who has a huge challenge with Bosa this week).  But Walker has shown strong and steady improvement as the year went on.  Seems like the rotation with Nijman was a kick-in-the-pants he needed as he took off after that. 

I would still count LT and S as our two biggest targets for draft day, but I'd think that Walker's improvement prevents us from needing to go after an LT if there isn't a good one within reach. 

I would add OLB to that mix, but agreed that adding a tackle early in the draft should be a priority - as they've seemingly hit on who their QB is for the longterm, get an impact tackle to protect him.  I'd also add its nice to see Rhyan getting a good share of snaps at right guard.  Runyan has been ok, but Rhyan profiles as a more physical/athletically gifted guard and it seems like he's figuring things out.

[CheezWizHed]

Runyan is a FA this year and has been rated as below average for a couple years.  A nice pickup as a 6th rounder, but time to move on.  Hopefully Rhyan will take his "second year jump" in his third year, but he is certainly improving as we go.  C and G depth is another need, but probably our normal 4th round target. 

OLB: It depends on what they do with Smith.  Given his play recently, I suspect they keep him.  Having Gary, Smith, and Ness is a pretty good rotation.  Cox probably steps easily into the 4th OLB, so I don't think the need is very high.  But if someone really good falls to you at the OLB, CB, or WR position, I think you grab them despite the need. 

[LouisEly]

2 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I would add OLB to that mix,

Unlikely that they move on from Preston Smith given that they would only save $2.5M by releasing him.  Most of his cap space is dead money from signing and restructure bonus.  Gary was limited early in the season but he's 100% now.  Van Ness will be in his 2nd year and he's been showing some things the last few weeks.  They kept Cox on the roster for a reason, so even though Enegbare will most most if not all of next year they'll still have a strong 2-deep.  They think enough of Cox and the PS guys that they let Justin Hollins go once Gary was 100%, and he had 2.5 sacks last year for GB in only 6 games.

S and CB are the big needs.  Nixon is a FA, Stokes can't stay healthy, and Johnson and Anderson are the only safeties who are under contract for next year.  Certainly LT if there's one they really like that they don't have to give up a bunch of picks to get; I could see a guy like Troy Fautanu appealing to them with their first two picks as he can play LT or slide inside to G and be really good at both.