2023-24 Bucks Season Thread

[patrickgpe]

3 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I forgot about Cam Payne. That'd be a GREAT signing. A veteran PG who's got some experience.

Dame will probably play ~60 games. Cam has proven to be a good backup. 

There are reports tonight that they are looking at Payne. Not sure how he fits in cap wise but if he came in on a people deal, it would be awesome 

[Matt Breen]

Could play Middleton at guard and Crowder at forward.

[patrickgpe]

18 minutes ago, reillymcshane said:

Could play Middleton at guard and Crowder at forward.

They have a lot of possibilities. Portis could play the 3 or 4.  Connaughton can play 2 or 3. If griffin wants he has a ton of lineup combos at his disposal 

[HarryDoyle]

Whoa, whoa, woah. How am I only finding out about this now? This is huge! I guess management wanted to show Giannis they were serious about winning.

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, patrickgpe said:

There are reports tonight that they are looking at Payne. Not sure how he fits in cap wise but if he came in on a people deal, it would be awesome 

He'd just sign as a vet minimum. The difference at MOST would be do you want to keep a full bench or do you want to go with 13 man roster for long stretches to keep your luxury tax payments down...and the Bucks are clearly not worried about the luxury tax with Dame Lillard and Giannis.

Just...another shot out for the Ownership Group. The decision to not sign Malcom Brogdon and then the comments after they let PJ Tucker go...a move I didn't take issue with as a roster building decision, but then the comments about the luxury tax and you kinda wondered if they'd REALLY make the moves to try and keep giving this team the best chance. Well...they were going to have a LOT of cap space in 2 years and they just committed 63M dollars to what will be a 35-36 year old PG. 

I think the Haslem family has certainly held up their end with the Edens and Dinan. 

I do hope Jrue ends up in the West though. I've heard Boston is interested. I don't see how that'd work without a 3rd team to take the cap hit, but...this is THEE most exciting move I've ever seen a Wisconsin team make. CC Sabathia was great, but it was for 3 months. 

This is for 3 years and makes Giannis re-signing a MUCH more likely scenario. 

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, reillymcshane said:

Could play Middleton at guard and Crowder at forward.

Yeah, hopefully Crowder just struggled because he sat out most of last year and just never got into a rhythm.

Jackson, the kid from UConn, wouldn't shock me if he started. Wallus said he wanted a guy who played defense and didn't really look for their shot. This kid is already an NBA caliber defender and an elite passer. The ideal type of facilitator. 

Marjon has matured. I'm a big fan of him...in that sort of role. That's not to say either of these guys are really starting caliber SGs, but with this lineup, they COULD be the best fits if they are further along than anticipated. 

 

1 hour ago, HarryDoyle said:

Whoa, whoa, woah. How am I only finding out about this now? This is huge! I guess management wanted to show Giannis they were serious about winning.

This $### is WILD. You don't hear about the Bucks trading for a HOFer, a top 75 player all time coming off a 32PPG season. 

And his preference was Miami, but he said he'd also accept Brooklyn(I don't know why) or Milwaukee.

 

Really hope this is as good of a fit as it seems and Giannis signs on for another 5 years(with the obligatory PO). 

[nate82]

I really thought it was going to be Miami or bust for Lillard, I am happy to be wrong on that.  Sucks to lose Jrue though he was the piece that was missing for the first championship but his offense has lapsed a lot.  He is still a great defender at the point but offensively he hasn't been all that good for like three seasons now. 

[GAME05]

Jrue had posted a Tweet just hours before the trade happened that he loved Milwaukee and wanted to retire as a Buck :( 

 

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, GAME05 said:

Jrue had posted a Tweet just hours before the trade happened that he loved Milwaukee and wanted to retire as a Buck :( 

 

They talked about how hard they tried to make this trade work without Jrue, but...they just couldn't find a way to make it work.

And it definitely sucks, but when you're pretty firm in saying you're not going to play past your current contract...well, it's a brutal business and the value Giannis has to this franchise is MASSIVE. Keeping him happy and improving our odds at winning another title, it just trumps Holiday's desires. 

And hey, maybe Jrue changes his mind and in another year or 2 when his deal is up, maybe he finds his way back as a part time player? Doubt it, but that's all I've got. I loved Jrue, I thought he got too much heat, he was never meant to be a true #2 scoring threat, but Middleton got hurt and then Giannis got hurt in that series...

Now you have a guy who can absolutely dominate a game other than Middleton. Lillard just creates SO much space being able to hit shots from 34 feet away, it's something Giannis has never played with. 

[Matt Breen]

The more I think about the trade the happier I am. I just look back at the playoffs and saw our offense get shut down too many times. Good defensive teams found ways to stymie us at times - and we just couldn't always overcome that. I know we'll suffer defensively, but such is life. Just pray for good health, and this team could really rock.

[wildcat83]

58 minutes ago, reillymcshane said:

The more I think about the trade the happier I am. I just look back at the playoffs and saw our offense get shut down too many times. Good defensive teams found ways to stymie us at times - and we just couldn't always overcome that. I know we'll suffer defensively, but such is life. Just pray for good health, and this team could really rock.

Having the rim protectors that Milwaukee has will help to mitigate the defensive drop off from Jrue to Lillard.  There's only so much you need your guards to do consistently with Giannis and Lopez playing behind them.

[homer]

Giannis can probably guard a wing if need be. He probably should have guarded Jimmy Butler last year. 

[patrickgpe]

Bucks already selling dame jerseys looks like beauchamp needs to find a new number. 
 

also saw Giannis has been offered 3/186 within the last week. Wonder if this makes it more likely that he takes it or still plans on waiting for next offseason? 

[CheezWizHed]

On 9/27/2023 at 3:34 PM, patrickgpe said:

Dame, Beasily, Middleton, Giannis, Brook Lopez

This was my thought initially too, but Beasily might be best as a 6th man.  Come off the bench when the offense needs a lift.  Connington might be the easy choice.  Am also interested to see how Jackson might fit there, but that might be a big step for him. 

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, CheezWizHed said:

This was my thought initially too, but Beasily might be best as a 6th man.  Come off the bench when the offense needs a lift.  Connington might be the easy choice.  Am also interested to see how Jackson might fit there, but that might be a big step for him. 

It might be, but that dude really does have a preternatural feel for the game and is a really good defender. He's a Draymond type of player. He can't score, but I don't think we need the 4 shooters and Giannis set up.

It's a lot to ask, but if we're going to be moving a lot more off-ball, he may end up almost being a de facto PG in the half-court. 

 

I think it'd be a bit of a waste to do the same thing, just with Dame though. Ie, Giannis brings it up 40%, Dame 40% and then Middleton 20% and they play ISO and then kick out. Running a real half-court offense while letting them Unleash the Dogs of War in the open court seems like a good idea to me.

But, I'm more of a FB/Baseball guy when it comes to the Xs and Os. So I could be way off. 

[CheezWizHed]

8 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

It might be, but that dude really does have a preternatural feel for the game and is a really good defender. He's a Draymond type of player. He can't score, but I don't think we need the 4 shooters and Giannis set up.

It's a lot to ask, but if we're going to be moving a lot more off-ball, he may end up almost being a de facto PG in the half-court. 

 

I think it'd be a bit of a waste to do the same thing, just with Dame though. Ie, Giannis brings it up 40%, Dame 40% and then Middleton 20% and they play ISO and then kick out. Running a real half-court offense while letting them Unleash the Dogs of War in the open court seems like a good idea to me.

But, I'm more of a FB/Baseball guy when it comes to the Xs and Os. So I could be way off. 

Giannis bringing the ball up and starting the offense hasn't been very effective for several years.  It will be interesting to see how Griff (or perhaps Stotts) and Dame change the offense this year.

[SeaBass]

21 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

They talked about how hard they tried to make this trade work without Jrue, but...they just couldn't find a way to make it work.

And it definitely sucks, but when you're pretty firm in saying you're not going to play past your current contract...well, it's a brutal business and the value Giannis has to this franchise is MASSIVE. Keeping him happy and improving our odds at winning another title, it just trumps Holiday's desires. 

And hey, maybe Jrue changes his mind and in another year or 2 when his deal is up, maybe he finds his way back as a part time player? Doubt it, but that's all I've got. I loved Jrue, I thought he got too much heat, he was never meant to be a true #2 scoring threat, but Middleton got hurt and then Giannis got hurt in that series...

Now you have a guy who can absolutely dominate a game other than Middleton. Lillard just creates SO much space being able to hit shots from 34 feet away, it's something Giannis has never played with. 

I feel sad for Jrue as well. That doesn't change the fact that I think this trade is amazing. It's possible to feel both. Jrue is just such a good dude it's a shame that he might feel let down that he had to be the "expendable" one. I wish him well. And in the end he's a pro, he'll come to terms with it.

Really hoping he doesn't end up with Boston though, Miami or Philly would kinda suck too but if I could keep him from one team it's Boston.

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, SeaBass said:

I feel sad for Jrue as well. That doesn't change the fact that I think this trade is amazing. It's possible to feel both. Jrue is just such a good dude it's a shame that he might feel let down that he had to be the "expendable" one. I wish him well. And in the end he's a pro, he'll come to terms with it.

Really hoping he doesn't end up with Boston though, Miami or Philly would kinda suck too but if I could keep him from one team it's Boston.

If he does end up in Boston, what are they doing to get him? It'd have to be Derrick White and Malcom Brogdon or some package like that. Or Robert Williams and Brogdon? I might actually be fine with that. They lose Grant Williams, if they lose Robert Williams, they've gutted their depth even worse than us and...I think I'd be alright with that. Though Jrue is such a stud on defense, with Brown and Tatum, they'd still be a problem, but much thinner on the perimeter and their interior D takes a big hit. 

I've seen OKC is interested. They have the 1sts to get it done and they want to compete now+they have another guard is SGA who is an elite offensive player. LOL...lets just hope he goes there and they have a nice, deep playoff run!

[LouisEly]

On 9/27/2023 at 2:41 PM, CheezWizHed said:

I like Drue, but his D never seemed to have much impact in the post season (save for that beauty of a steal on Smart)

Ummm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JajNxqQOlFg

[CheezWizHed]

5 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Ummm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JajNxqQOlFg

Sure, I'm exaggerating to an extent.  Jrue was certainly a big part of the championship. I just think his defense gets too much credit.  He was good defensively, but he wasn't exactly a shut-down defender.  

Even in that clip, Jrue was more opportunistic in grabbing the ball after Giannis stopped Booker's drive. 

 

[Matt Breen]

23 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

This was my thought initially too, but Beasily might be best as a 6th man.  Come off the bench when the offense needs a lift.  Connington might be the easy choice.  Am also interested to see how Jackson might fit there, but that might be a big step for him. 

I read a couple of write ups that say a Dame/Beasley backcourt is unlikely due to defensive shortcomings of such a pairing. 

[BrewerFan]

12 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Ummm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JajNxqQOlFg

It was so much more than that one play. That SERIES turned when Game3, Jrue starting picking up Chris Paul 94 feet and just wearing him out. He was an absolute beast on the defensive end.

Lets not let Jimmy Butler going...out of his mind(including hitting lobs over Giannis AND....someone else at the buzzer for a game winner(or maybe to send it to OT, don't know, don't actually care, it was one series).

 

Jrue's Defense was...massive in that post-season. And in the next post-season and I don't know if Sidney Moncrief or Kawhi Leonhard could have stopped Butler this series. 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

The Bucks flaws on offense have stopped their playoff runs for the entirety of the Giannis era save for one season when they made just enough plays of defense, led by Jrue and Tucker, to squeeze out a title. You could either keep trying to thread that needle or you could become a undefendable juggernaut on the offensive end by acquiring a closer who needs to be guarded out to 30 feet and opens everything up in the paint for your franchise player. Doesn't seem like a tough call at all. This is a much easier path than needing to make outrageous defensive stops in the final minute of multiple games.

[BrewerFan]

19 hours ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

The Bucks flaws on offense have stopped their playoff runs for the entirety of the Giannis era save for one season when they made just enough plays of defense, led by Jrue and Tucker, to squeeze out a title. You could either keep trying to thread that needle or you could become a undefendable juggernaut on the offensive end by acquiring a closer who needs to be guarded out to 30 feet and opens everything up in the paint for your franchise player. Doesn't seem like a tough call at all. This is a much easier path than needing to make outrageous defensive stops in the final minute of multiple games.

Yeah, I'd argue that with a healthy Middleton, they had enough offense to win it in '22, but there was so much weight on Middleton's shoulders as come playoff time, the other shooters largely disappeared in the tight series. Connaughton being the exception. But Allen certainly did. And Middleton gets hurt and it took an INCREDIBLE series where Giannis seemingly willed them to 7 games and they were just ultimately overmatched.

If we make this move at the start of Free Agency, I think we'd have done a couple things differently. We'd have likely made more of an effort to retain Matthews for starters.

But I don't know if you read the Athletic or not, but they talked about this very thing. How having a shooter with Dame's range changes the Geometry on the floor with Middleton, Giannis. It kinda makes me picture an offense with this crazy concept of motion without the ball. Ingles would have been a much better fit in this offense, but someone Jackson could be that guy or I think Lopez is an underrated passer. Just another way of running the offense. 

There's no doubt Dame and the offense he brings will be huge, but we'll be negating a good chunk of that talent if the plan is to just play ISO ball.  But again, this is how Draymond became a HOFer. Being on a team where he could make the smart play and he just had a feel for the game+ elite defense. That is pretty much Jackson from UConn. 

[HarryDoyle]

Jrue traded to Boston in no surprise to anyone.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38538353/sources-celtics-add-jrue-holiday-trade-blazers