2023-24 Bucks Season Thread

[nate82]

This is an awesome read on the Bucks pick and roll issues and success.

https://theathletic.com/5100682/2023/12/07/giannis-dame-bucks-pick-and-roll/?source=user_shared_article Antetokounmpo-Lillard pick-and-roll is a work in progress but showing signs of awesome potential

[patrickgpe]

If this tournament returns in 2024-25 (and it will), they need to relook at their courts, that game was borderline unwatchable, with a red and blue court, and then the white and yellow uniforms. 

[Samurai Bucky]

7 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

If this tournament returns in 2024-25 (and it will), they need to relook at their courts, that game was borderline unwatchable, with a red and blue court, and then the white and yellow uniforms. 

Boise State called and said, "What are you talking about?"

😉

[CheezWizHed]

I'm kind of torn about Giannis' actions lately... I'm seeing/hearing them secondhand, so maybe there is more to it... but he runs down to the Pacer's locker room for the game ball??  Then questions if he got the right ball??

Seems a bit childish to me...  Better set to let the team officials get the ball back.  

[Joseph Zarr]

3 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I'm kind of torn about Giannis' actions lately... I'm seeing/hearing them secondhand, so maybe there is more to it... but he runs down to the Pacer's locker room for the game ball??  Then questions if he got the right ball??

Seems a bit childish to me...  Better set to let the team officials get the ball back.  

Well, he mentioned in the post-game he never received the game ball from Game 6 of the NBA Finals. He was already sensitive to that, me thinks. Then, you couple the fact he broke Redd's record when he is on video record talking with Redd in 2021 about breaking that record. Then you notice he originally offered and intended to give the game ball to Lillard for passing Korver and entering the Top 5 3PM in NBA history. AND, then you couple the fact that he isn't taking kindly to the Pacers' bourgeoning braggadocio. A rivalry is born. Personally, I love the passion.

Plus, what he is doing this season is once again utterly historic. He is putting up 32, 10.5, 5.0 on 66% TS. He is nearing 70% at the FT line. He leads the League by a landslide in Restricted Area PPG. He was 20 of 24 in the restricted area vs the Pacers who continue to have no answer for him despite having an elite rim protector in Myles Turner. AND, the League pundits and talking heads continue to disrespect him by sending him down ranking ladders while also bad-mouthing the Bucks. As he said back in, what was it, April? Early summer? He's tired of the disrespect. He's coming. And how!

[CheezWizHed]

3 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

Well, he mentioned in the post-game he never received the game ball from Game 6 of the NBA Finals. He was already sensitive to that, me thinks. Then, you couple the fact he broke Redd's record when he is on video record talking with Redd in 2021 about breaking that record. Then you notice he originally offered and intended to give the game ball to Lillard for passing Korver and entering the Top 5 3PM in NBA history. AND, then you couple the fact that he isn't taking kindly to the Pacers' bourgeoning braggadocio. A rivalry is born. Personally, I love the passion.

Plus, what he is doing this season is once again utterly historic. He is putting up 32, 10.5, 5.0 on 66% TS. He is nearing 70% at the FT line. He leads the League by a landslide in Restricted Area PPG. He was 20 of 24 in the restricted area vs the Pacers who continue to have no answer for him despite having an elite rim protector in Myles Turner. AND, the League pundits and talking heads continue to disrespect him by sending him down ranking ladders while also bad-mouthing the Bucks. As he said back in, what was it, April? Early summer? He's tired of the disrespect. He's coming. And how!

If prefer he chase respect on the court instead of balls off the court. It sounded childish to chase the Pacers back to their locker room.

We have a lot of work on the court that is necessary to win another championship. We don't need the distraction of "he stole my ball" 

I love GA's carefree attitude...I hope he isn't becoming a diva.

[LouisEly]

First player in NBA history to make at least 20 field goals and 20 free throws in a game while shooting at least 70% on each. It's also the most points with fewer than 30 field goal attempts in a game.  Unfortunate that part is overshadowed.  For as big of a blowhard as Stephen A. Smith is, he's on the record as not buying what the Pacers are selling.

[nate82]

2 hours ago, LouisEly said:

For as big of a blowhard as Stephen A. Smith is, he's on the record as not buying what the Pacers are selling.

So you are saying the Pacers are actually good then?

[Joseph Zarr]

13 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

If prefer he chase respect on the court instead of balls off the court. It sounded childish to chase the Pacers back to their locker room.

We have a lot of work on the court that is necessary to win another championship. We don't need the distraction of "he stole my ball" 

I love GA's carefree attitude...I hope he isn't becoming a diva.

Obviously, you are entitled to feel this way. I grant you that. And, while I absolutely agree with you on the '...work on the court that is necessary to win another championship.', I pretty much just flat disagree with you on the rest 😂. Giannis did more than plenty of work on the court that night (as he has done for nearly the entire season). What I am hearing here is the optics of the entire ordeal are giving people pause. That's fine. But, also, I. continue to be amazed how the Pacers antics are pretty much just overlooked. That part is just wild.

From my vantage point, GA has been disrespected by the American players (other than the truly elite of the elite) since he's been in the League. This episode is no different. Just go look at the Knicks post-game antics last night after Brunson scored 50. That is actually, in my humble opinion, childish. You can disagree about going into the opponents' hallway. It certainly isn't a recipe for a good look and will result in conflict as it did. Then again, you can see the Pacers were pretty much feeding lines of BS because they were irritated he both went for the record and built on that (because the end of the Bucks bench was woeful) and took the ball by what certainly appeared to be spite. I mean, the young man they purported to take the game ball for...those weren't even his first NBA points. I found the entire post-game follow-up to the ordeal amazingly farcical and akin to an Onion video clip. "Our GM was elbowed in the ribs!" Oh geeee, I sure hope he's alright. We haven't heard a peep since. He could be seriously injured! 

Come on, now. That's all just blabber.

Giannis truly cares. Everything fans have come to question about highly paid professional athletes. He is proving to fans that he leaves it all out there and will storm into a hallway to prove it. He's extremely competitive. He's extremely loyal. He had an incredibly historic night. And, as I alluded to above, he was looking to get the game ball originally for Dame who has now entered hallowed ground. 

Give him the friggin' ball on his Home court, I say! Or he shall stomp forth with vengeance!

And as @LouisEly is speaking to above: all the distraction caused by this event takes away from what was an utterly historic, incredible and dominant performance. Only 3 other players in NBA history sniffed at that type of performance. Diva? No. Dominant. Yes. You want to talk about a Diva? Look at a certain Big in Philly who literally falls over when whispered upon to get his FT's. Whereas, as evidenced in the game we are speaking about, Indiana proved you literally need to gang tackle Giannis and whip him to the ground to send him to the FT line. These are fairly distinct differences in play and method.

Anyhow, moving on, I certainly hope the entire affair simply ends up being the unifying and catalyzing event it seems to have been. 

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, Joseph Zarr said:

Obviously, you are entitled to feel this way. I grant you that. And, while I absolutely agree with you on the '...work on the court that is necessary to win another championship.', I pretty much just flat disagree with you on the rest 😂. Giannis did more than plenty of work on the court that night (as he has done for nearly the entire season). What I am hearing here is the optics of the entire ordeal are giving people pause. That's fine. But, also, I. continue to be amazed how the Pacers antics are pretty much just overlooked. That part is just wild.

From my vantage point, GA has been disrespected by the American players (other than the truly elite of the elite) since he's been in the League. This episode is no different. Just go look at the Knicks post-game antics last night after Brunson scored 50. That is actually, in my humble opinion, childish. You can disagree about going into the opponents' hallway. It certainly isn't a recipe for a good look and will result in conflict as it did. Then again, you can see the Pacers were pretty much feeding lines of BS because they were irritated he both went for the record and built on that (because the end of the Bucks bench was woeful) and took the ball by what certainly appeared to be spite. I mean, the young man they purported to take the game ball for...those weren't even his first NBA points. I found the entire post-game follow-up to the ordeal amazingly farcical and akin to an Onion video clip. "Our GM was elbowed in the ribs!" Oh geeee, I sure hope he's alright. We haven't heard a peep since. He could be seriously injured! 

Come on, now. That's all just blabber.

Giannis truly cares. Everything fans have come to question about highly paid professional athletes. He is proving to fans that he leaves it all out there and will storm into a hallway to prove it. He's extremely competitive. He's extremely loyal. He had an incredibly historic night. And, as I alluded to above, he was looking to get the game ball originally for Dame who has now entered hallowed ground. 

Give him the friggin' ball on his Home court, I say! Or he shall stomp forth with vengeance!

And as @LouisEly is speaking to above: all the distraction caused by this event takes away from what was an utterly historic, incredible and dominant performance. Only 3 other players in NBA history sniffed at that type of performance. Diva? No. Dominant. Yes. You want to talk about a Diva? Look at a certain Big in Philly who literally falls over when whispered upon to get his FT's. Whereas, as evidenced in the game we are speaking about, Indiana proved you literally need to gang tackle Giannis and whip him to the ground to send him to the FT line. These are fairly distinct differences in play and method.

Anyhow, moving on, I certainly hope the entire affair simply ends up being the unifying and catalyzing event it seems to have been. 

There is no doubt the Pacer's actions were childish (or d-bagish if you prefer).  The point is to not let them drag you to their level. 

I pretty much gave up on NBA basketball because of the diva starbase (thank you Lebron!).  But I came back because  GA has been truly unique.  He has been humble.  He resonates with the regular joes.  He makes bad jokes and laughs at himself.  He is a truely likeable star. 

That is why the actions of that night seem out of place for him. Knocks down a Pacer after a layup? Chase down the Pacers for the game ball? Just unnecessary and out of place for him.  

As for the "work on the court"... I'm referring to playing with Dame.   GA had a great individual game against the Pacers, but we all know that isn't sustainable in a 7 series game. The team still looks like they are running in 2nd gear. That will hopefully come in time... but it takes work.

Perhaps he really was sticking up for Dame (which would go towards building the team)... but it still was a ball.  Seriously how many gameballs do these guys keep in their trophy collection anyway?

GA is entitled to an "off night"... I'm just hoping dealing with all the divas and jerks of the league doesn't alter him into becoming one of them. 

[Samurai Bucky]

15 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

If prefer he chase respect on the court instead of balls off the court. It sounded childish to chase the Pacers back to their locker room.

We have a lot of work on the court that is necessary to win another championship. We don't need the distraction of "he stole my ball" 

I love GA's carefree attitude...I hope he isn't becoming a diva.

Colin Cowherd says we shouldn't be surprised -- he is a product of American Sports...

 

[CheezWizHed]

6 minutes ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Colin Cowherd says we shouldn't be surprised -- he is a product of American Sports...

 

Very well stated... sad but true.  

But I'd separate the actions of a diva from the actions of a champion. (Note: I grew up in the Jordan era and hated him as an avid Buck's fan - Terry Cummings, Brickowski, Pierce, Pressey, Alvin Robertson, etc...).

The champion fights for the best - teammates, coaches, best efforts, etc...  Jordan fighting Rodman in Vegas (lack of focus/ distractions) was to keep out distractions.  He was notorious for getting the most of out of his team (i.e. Pippen) or if they didn't live up to move them out (Tony Kukoc).  But his simply WON.  Jordan took fairly ordinary teammates and elevated them to stars (or burned them out).  But he was nearly unbeatable in his prime years - as frustrating as that was for a Buck's fan.  

LeBron is the consumate diva.  The "crown" he was given as a teen went to his head and he didn't deserve to wear it.  The whole ESPN "look at me hour" to announce his FA decision?  Wow... look at me everyone! You could argue he is doing the same thing... fighting for the best to win... But I don't see him elevating those around him... I see him gathering all-stars. 

That is why - to me - the GOAT argument between the two is easy... Jordan took regular people and elevated them.  LeBron needed already established stars to do it. 

I don't have an issue with Giannis fighting for players or coaches when it is about making the team better.  I just don't care to see him chase stupid "trophies."

NOTE: he said here that he was giving the ball to his mom, so it certainly wasn't about Dame...

[RedStickBrew]

Detroit is

[young guns]

What is up with this Knicks heavy schedule, I know some of it is the tournament, but good to see if we face them I'm the playoffs we shouldn't have to worry.

[BrewerFan]

On 12/16/2023 at 3:06 PM, CheezWizHed said:

Very well stated... sad but true.  

But I'd separate the actions of a diva from the actions of a champion. (Note: I grew up in the Jordan era and hated him as an avid Buck's fan - Terry Cummings, Brickowski, Pierce, Pressey, Alvin Robertson, etc...).

The champion fights for the best - teammates, coaches, best efforts, etc...  Jordan fighting Rodman in Vegas (lack of focus/ distractions) was to keep out distractions.  He was notorious for getting the most of out of his team (i.e. Pippen) or if they didn't live up to move them out (Tony Kukoc).  But his simply WON.  Jordan took fairly ordinary teammates and elevated them to stars (or burned them out).  But he was nearly unbeatable in his prime years - as frustrating as that was for a Buck's fan.  

LeBron is the consumate diva.  The "crown" he was given as a teen went to his head and he didn't deserve to wear it.  The whole ESPN "look at me hour" to announce his FA decision?  Wow... look at me everyone! You could argue he is doing the same thing... fighting for the best to win... But I don't see him elevating those around him... I see him gathering all-stars. 

That is why - to me - the GOAT argument between the two is easy... Jordan took regular people and elevated them.  LeBron needed already established stars to do it. 

I don't have an issue with Giannis fighting for players or coaches when it is about making the team better.  I just don't care to see him chase stupid "trophies."

NOTE: he said here that he was giving the ball to his mom, so it certainly wasn't about Dame...

That's funny...I never hated Jordan. Now I was 5 or 6 when he won his first title, but I was that kid(as I'm sure many others on here were) who watched Sports Center before school and learned to read on the sports section...

I remember watching him play the Bucks and rooting for the Bucks, but just being mesmerized. He was different.

I feel like you're a bit hard on LeBron...but it's also hard to argue with. I don't see how Jordan loses to that Dallas team for example. GSW? Sure...not Dallas or even SA. 

 

I think I'm more charitable with LeBron, though you look at guys like Beasley or other players and they play better elsewhere. It seems to me that if you're playing with LeBron, you're facing an immense amount of pressure that didn't quite exist when MJ played with Social Media and all that. 

Still extremely tough to play with MJ and the expectations. Maybe Krause was underrated as he did get a team that fit him so incredibly well. The shooters, Pippen who was an elite on ball defender so Jordan didn't have to be every play. A big who could rebound and defend like Grant and then Rodman. Big bodies so Ewing didn't just destroy them. 

I really can't tell if it's more MJ had teammates who GREW with him and spent time there while LeBron constantly demands turnover. If it's not working RIGHT NOW, he wants trades. 

 

Really interesting points though. That run the Bucks were on in the 80s...it seems so wildly underrated among Wisconsin sports fans. The golden era of the NBA. Magic, Bird, Jordan coming on strong, the Bad boys, Dominique, Moses, Dr. J, Cheeks and Barkley and the Bucks were regularly competitive with the top teams. Some years they beat Boston(or at least one) and they'd lose to Philly or we'd beat Philly and lose to Boston. Then it was the Pistons or the Hawks with one of the truly underrated stars in Dominique Wilkins. 

[HarryDoyle]

Oh ok.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/trae-young-dismisses-bucks-title-believes-2021-would-be-for-hawks-if-it-wasn-t-for-his-injury/ar-AA1lW6sk?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=37f481b08a5e48f19944ea7a94f354b6&ei=22

[sveumrules]

A little over one third of the way through the season and the Bucks currently sit at 22-7, putting them second in the East and third overall behind BOS and MIN who are both 22-6.

Their season kind of breaks down nicely into three sections so far - rocky start (5-4), figuring it out (10-3) and then the current seven game win streak (7-0) - so thought I'd post some splits from each...

MILWAUKEE BUCKS
5-4: 115.7 PPG | 119.3 OPPG (-3.6 DIF) 39.6 RPG
10-3: 126.6 PPG | 118.3 OPPG (+8.3 DIF) 46.4 RPG
7-0: 132.4 PPG | 118.9 OPPG (+13.5 DIF) 48.1 RPG
(Offense is a juggernaut, defense has improved a little but still work to do, rebounding back where it should be)

GIANNIS
5-4: 28.9 PPG | 9.4 RPG | 3.8 APG | .581 FG% | .649 FT%
10-3: 31.8 PPG | 11.5 RPG | 6.0 APG | .638 FG% | .664 FT%
7-0: 31.4 PPG | 11.7 RPG | 6.7 APG | .571 FG% | .701 FT%
(Offseason knee scope and spacing provided by Dame has revitalized Giannis who's currently posting the highest raw TS% of his career, though only the 4th highest TS%+ once we account for the insane leaguewide scoring environment this season. Encouraging signs at the free throw line too)

DAMIAN
5-4: 24.3 PPG | 4.4 RPG | 4.7 APG | .400 FG% | .293 3P%
10-3: 26.2 PPG | 4.7 RPG | 8.2 APG | .446 FG% | .391 3P%
7-0: 27.1 PPG | 4.9 RPG | 7.1 APG | .441 FG% | .439 3P%
(Shooting percentages back to expected levels after the slow start, also getting to the line at an insane clip with a .479 free throw rate versus a career average of .346 entering the season) 

KHRIS
5-4: 11.1 PPG | 3.1 RPG | 4.0 APG | .486 FG% | 18.9 MPG
10-3: 13.2 PPG | 5.1 RPG | 4.1 APG | .463 FG% | 23.3 MPG
7-0: 16.3 PPG | 6.2 RPG | 4.5 APG | .494 FG% | 30.2 MPG
(Not a surprise that the team has played better as Midds has played more. His +9.7 On/Off is currently tops on the team and his old man mid range game gives the Bucks an elite option at all three scoring levels)

ERRBODY ELSE
Beasley has been killing it with the starters posting the best shooting splits of his life (.457 3P% vs .378 career and .646 TS% vs .554 career) to go along with his best On/Off as a regular (+9.0 vs -2.2 career). Brook is leading the league in blocks with three per game, and still providing value on defense with opponents posting a 113.7 ORtg with him on the floor versus a 119.9 when he is off. Bobby has been averaging essentially 13 PPG | 7 RPG on near career best efficiency (.590 TS%) while bringing his typical energy, toughness, hustle and scary eyes. 

Rest of the roster gets murkier. Pat has brought the intangibles, but not the three ball (.325 3P%). AJJ and Marjon have had some flashes and shown some promise as our only real athletic wings, just need to get more consistent minutes. Cameron Payne has been the worst regular with a -6.5 On/Off in his 16.3 MPG. 

Rest of the season priorities would seem to be stay healthy and continue to figure out the defense. Hard to be Top 5 on that end with Dame, Beas and Midds as the primary perimeter defenders, but all they need to do is shave off a bucket per 100 possessions to get into Top 10 level, which should be plenty with this offense. If Horst can somehow pull off a defensive minded PG or wing (or both) at the deadline that would go a long ways too.

[nate82]

This is some really bad defense.  Something needs to be fixed but not sure what.

[HarryDoyle]

2 hours ago, nate82 said:

This is some really bad defense.  Something needs to be fixed but not sure what.

They certainly need to make a trade to upgrade their defense. At this point I'm not sure they can beat Philly in a seven game series much less Boston.

[nate82]

On 12/25/2023 at 2:51 PM, HarryDoyle said:

They certainly need to make a trade to upgrade their defense. At this point I'm not sure they can beat Philly in a seven game series much less Boston.

They really can't make a trade though.  The best option for the Bucks would be P.J. Tucker but they would either have to trade Connaughton + or Portis for Tucker.  There just isn't any room to add anyone to the roster. 

[BrewerFan]

On 12/25/2023 at 3:51 PM, HarryDoyle said:

They certainly need to make a trade to upgrade their defense. At this point I'm not sure they can beat Philly in a seven game series much less Boston.

They're 17-4 in their last 21 and Middleton is just rounding into form, Connaughton has played poorly early on with his injury and Crowder is out.

They'll be fine. I keep hearing PJ Tucker. He's going to be 39 years old.

11 hours ago, nate82 said:

They really can't make a trade though.  The best option for the Bucks would be P.J. Tucker but they would either have to trade Connaughton + or Portis for Tucker.  There just isn't any room to add anyone to the roster. 

You'd have to trade Portis for him. I believe that's the only option as I don't believe you can aggregate players salaries over the 2nd apron.

But that would really be a dumb trade IMO. Let Crowder come back. They just won 7 in a row, 10 of 13 before that. They're fine. 1st year coach, Dame, Giannis and now Khris gelling. Lopez still playing at a high level.

 

All the angst...mainly over the 5-4 start as they've lost 4 games in the 18 since then. I think they'll be fine.

[HarryDoyle]

6 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

They're 17-4 in their last 21 and Middleton is just rounding into form, Connaughton has played poorly early on with his injury and Crowder is out.

They'll be fine. I keep hearing PJ Tucker. He's going to be 39 years old.

You'd have to trade Portis for him. I believe that's the only option as I don't believe you can aggregate players salaries over the 2nd apron.

But that would really be a dumb trade IMO. Let Crowder come back. They just won 7 in a row, 10 of 13 before that. They're fine. 1st year coach, Dame, Giannis and now Khris gelling. Lopez still playing at a high level.

 

All the angst...mainly over the 5-4 start as they've lost 4 games in the 18 since then. I think they'll be fine.

None of those teams they beat were the Sixers or Celtics. If Crowder is the best we can do to improve the defense, we can look forward to a second round playoff exit, if not another first round.

[HarryDoyle]

Sad news, herb Kohl has passed away.

Former Bucks owner and U.S. senator Herb Kohl dies at 88 - ESPN

[BrewerFan]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:53 AM, HarryDoyle said:

None of those teams they beat were the Sixers or Celtics. If Crowder is the best we can do to improve the defense, we can look forward to a second round playoff exit, if not another first round.

Yeah, the Sixers have proven themselves to be playoff juggernauts🙄

This team looks great. When Middleton is healthy(as he is now) and they can rotate Jackson, Beauchamp, get Crowder back, I'm not worrying about the Sixers. 

Where's this come from? Did I just not pay attention in the past, or was everyone so fatalistic about the Bucks? They've started slow, they've been great going...what, 19-4 in their last 23. 

 

It's not even the new year. And Crowder has been an elite defensive player the last few years. You weren't going to go from Jrue to Dame and not see a drop off in defense, but I'll gladly take my chances with this team, if healthy, in the post-season. 

[RobertCrawley]

22 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

Sad news, herb Kohl has passed away.

Former Bucks owner and U.S. senator Herb Kohl dies at 88 - ESPN

A lot can be said about Herb Kohl, but I will remember that Steve Ballmer offered him 1 billion dollars for the Bucks with the intention of moving the team to Seattle, and Kohl turned him down. Thanks, Senator.

Craig Counsell would have taken the money and explained he was trying to elevate the well-being of NBA players.