2023-24 Wisconsin Basketball season thread

[MrTPlush]

If you look at Greg Gard’s tourney resume when it was more so his team with at least some of his recruits.

1) Got crushed 1st round by a #12 seed

2) Lost second round as a #9 seed

3) Narrowly escaped the #13 seed just to fail to score 50 points in a round 2 loss

4) Got dominated 1st round by a #12 seed

It has been a really long time since Greg Gard did anything in March despite being a Top 5 seed three times.

[AKCheesehead]

22 minutes ago, yourout said:

Wahl has been so so so bad.

I honestly wish he hadn't even suited up today.

[adambr2]

5/12 "upsets" aren't exactly a rarity but this one was about as predictable as they come. 

[yourout]

JMU could not have asked for a better set of officials as far as the way the game was called for the style they wanted to play.

If that game is called tight early they would have been forced to have backed off.

I seriously doubt they're going to be able to be that handsy with Duke

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Dukes were better. More organized, more poised, more fluid.

I really think they're more of a 10-seed talent-wise, and the Badgers are more of a 7. Still a game that should have been much closer. Picked a bad time to get awful outings from Wahl, Storr, and Chuckie. That layup from Klesmit into the 3 for a 5-point swing really killed it.

Good year on the whole. About where I thought they'd be. Disappointed to be one-and-done again, but I'll enjoy rooting for JMU the rest of the way. That's an impressive team.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, SeaBass said:

I really haven't followed the Badgers or college basketball but they looked absolutely trash that half. Didn't look like they had any answers either. They have Whal stationed at the top of the circle and he's zero threat to shoot a three. What use is that? They throw him the ball and now he needs to pass somewhere else. He doesn't penetrate, can't shoot, is that the only option they have? It solves nothing. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to their offense. It was a bad half so obviously they must be better than this normally but being unfamiliar with them they just look incompetent.

 When they set him up in a position to actually score the ball it's on the baseline or post area. He's between the circles early on to alleviate early pressure by screening, or just to keep the lane unclogged. Even w/o the ability to shoot, he facilitates pretty well normally, and can put the ball on the deck. Unfortunately he ended his career with probably his worst stretch as a collegian.

Unless they go small no, they had no one better. And 'incompetent' is a fair description of the way the pressure defense made them look in the 1st half.

[Jim French Stepstool]

44 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

If you look at Greg Gard’s tourney resume when it was more so his team with at least some of his recruits.

1) Got crushed 1st round by a #12 seed

2) Lost second round as a #9 seed

3) Narrowly escaped the #13 seed just to fail to score 50 points in a round 2 loss

4) Got dominated 1st round by a #12 seed

It has been a really long time since Greg Gard did anything in March despite being a Top 5 seed three times.

1) The 12 seed that "crushed" them that year was Oregon. I remember many Badger fans recognized the bad matchup & anticipated a loss. The Ducks finished their season winning ten in a row, then lost in the sweet sixteen by 4 points to the eventual national champ. 

3) They led ISU, then lost their point guard for the remainder of the game & had nothing close to a reasonable replacement.

    I agree the post season has been disappointing. Just a little context. And it was unfortunate that arguably the best team in that stretch had no tournament to participate in.

[yourout]

I Actually think the Badgers weren't the only thing startled by the start of this game.

I think the officials were caught off guard with how handsy and aggressive JMU was going to be and were reluctant to put people in early foul trouble.

[Jim French Stepstool]

40 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Dukes were better. More organized, more poised, more fluid.

I really think they're more of a 10-seed talent-wise, and the Badgers are more of a 7. Still a game that should have been much closer. Picked a bad time to get awful outings from Wahl, Storr, and Chuckie. That layup from Klesmit into the 3 for a 5-point swing really killed it.

Good year on the whole. About where I thought they'd be. Disappointed to be one-and-done again, but I'll enjoy rooting for JMU the rest of the way. That's an impressive team.

How many times in February did we see the horrible stretch of turnovers in the first 5-10 minutes? Thought we were past that. If we turn it over a normal amount in the first half commensurate w/what we usually do in a half of basketball, that's like 7 fewer times. Given the points off TO's, factor in the extra possessions, and worst-case scenario we're probably down 5 or 6 points going into the break. Having to instead climb the 13-point hill was a killer. Agree about the missed layup by Klesmit. I didn't even look at the resulting 3pt shot as it went up. You knew it was going in. 

I feel bad for Wahl. I'm sure he wasn't close to 100%, but if you're good enough to suit up you have to be better than he was, on both ends. Tough way to end a career.

[HarryDoyle]

Committing 19 turnovers was a bold strategy. Didn't pay off for them.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, yourout said:

JMU could not have asked for a better set of officials as far as the way the game was called for the style they wanted to play.

If that game is called tight early they would have been forced to have backed off.

I seriously doubt they're going to be able to be that handsy with Duke

 I think they still would've tried to be aggressive but just would've gotten into more foul trouble & tried to deal with it. The tradeoff certainly was worth it for them. They did get whistled SOME, but it didn't deter them. Hanging on to the damn ball long enough to hit Crowl in the post wouldn't have hurt.

Sundays' matchup will be interesting. Duke didn't seem to get an unusual amount of home cooking vs Vermont. We'll see.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, AKCheesehead said:

I honestly wish he hadn't even suited up today.

Hard to believe I'm typing this, but considering the opponent & the way they attacked us I think hoping against hope Tyler Wahl was going to have a good game was a better option than either Gilmore or Ilver. And going small means Blackwell, who unfortunately wasn't good tonite either.

In no way am I defending the way Wahl played though.

[RedStickBrew]

8 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

Committing 19 turnovers was a bold strategy. Didn't pay off for them.

That was absolutely brutal.  Not to mention how many points JMU scored directly off those turnovers too.

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

That was absolutely brutal.  Not to mention how many points JMU scored directly off those turnovers too.

Sort of a perfect storm for JMU. They were comfortable playing that way, and had the fresh legs to do it (eleven days off btwn games). I assume (hope) UW prepared for it but that type of constant overplay isn't easy to replicate in practice. At the end of the day, too much experience on the floor to handle it that poorly. 

Now that the season is over It wouldn't shock me if info comes out that Wahl was severely limited for quite a large portion of the year. Even when he doesn't score he's always been solid at catching & passing the ball & defending--even back to his freshman year. For awhile now he's been so-so in those areas, sometimes downright poor. Lousy way to go out.

[Jimbo]

I just see this as one coach being outcoach by the opposing coach.  The team came out looking unprepared.

 

Two weeks ago, who woulda thunk the Badger women would still be playing after the Badger men were done?

 

[LouisEly]

Not sure what the game plan was, but it seemed pretty simple - get the ball into the post.  Get them into foul trouble which they did despite not getting the ball into the post.  Seemed like they spent all game trying to run the pick and roll around the perimeter.  When Crowl got the ball in the post he finished.  Hardly any post-ups by Wahl all game.

Horrible game by Wahl.  Little effort to establish himself in the post.  Just running screens around the perimeter.  Not once did I see him fight his ass off to establish position in the post.  But on defense, several times he overplayed his man on the perimeter who cut to the rim for an easy layup.  Force them into tough shots, which they took plenty of and missed plenty of.  Wall not trying hard enough on offense, trying too hard on defense. 

Seemed like the core issue of the basketball team was the same as the football team - not enough intensity, not enough physicality, not enough forceful leadership.  Maybe this whole "Badger family" culture is only good, but not great.  Both programs need players who will get in the face of other players to get them to muscle up.

It should have been a simple game plan - establish the post on offense, don't give them anything easy on defense.  Failed on both.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Not sure what the game plan was, but it seemed pretty simple - get the ball into the post.  Get them into foul trouble which they did despite not getting the ball into the post.  Seemed like they spent all game trying to run the pick and roll around the perimeter.  When Crowl got the ball in the post he finished.  Hardly any post-ups by Wahl all game.

Horrible game by Wahl.  Little effort to establish himself in the post.  Just running screens around the perimeter.  Not once did I see him fight his ass off to establish position in the post.  But on defense, several times he overplayed his man on the perimeter who cut to the rim for an easy layup.  Force them into tough shots, which they took plenty of and missed plenty of.  Wall not trying hard enough on offense, trying too hard on defense. 

Seemed like the core issue of the basketball team was the same as the football team - not enough intensity, not enough physicality, not enough forceful leadership.  Maybe this whole "Badger family" culture is only good, but not great.  Both programs need players who will get in the face of other players to get them to muscle up.

It should have been a simple game plan - establish the post on offense, don't give them anything easy on defense.  Failed on both.

Three shots from Crowl from inside the arc (made two of them). That certainly isn't enough. 

I think the last time Wahl finished with any consistency throughout a game was, ironically, vs Edey in Madison. But even if he isn't contributing there, it's just so confounding how someone so fundamentally sound on the defensive end throughout his years here could finish up so poorly on that end. I mean, if you aren't 100% that should make you even more cognizant of just walling up & not doing anything stupid. Too many times he did the opposite.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

On 3/22/2024 at 11:58 PM, Jim French Stepstool said:

1) The 12 seed that "crushed" them that year was Oregon. I remember many Badger fans recognized the bad matchup & anticipated a loss. The Ducks finished their season winning ten in a row, then lost in the sweet sixteen by 4 points to the eventual national champ. 

3) They led ISU, then lost their point guard for the remainder of the game & had nothing close to a reasonable replacement.

    I agree the post season has been disappointing. Just a little context. And it was unfortunate that arguably the best team in that stretch had no tournament to participate in.

Thumbs up to this. You start on the "maybe Gard isn't the right guy" train, you end up as Minnesota pretty quick. Fired Tubby Smith (a good coach who consistently had that team in the running for tourneys, often landing in the bracket) and then went into the wilderness for more than a decade.

Gard has adjusted to new style, transfer portal hoops pretty darn well. We'd all love back-to-back Final Fours, but nobody at Wisconsin's level gets that very often. Unless you can get a young superstar coach like Michigan did yesterday, I don't see a lot to complain about.

[yourout]

Rumour mill has some behind the scenes talk about Mac going after Otzelberger.

That would be one way to keep some of the better Wisconsin kids home.

[RedStickBrew]

1 hour ago, yourout said:

Rumour mill has some behind the scenes talk about Mac going after Otzelberger.

That would be one way to keep some of the better Wisconsin kids home.

There’s definitely smoke and I can understand why Mac might not be happy with the state of the program right now

[yourout]

5 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

There’s definitely smoke and I can understand why Mac might not be happy with the state of the program right now

I like Gard but the times are a changin and it might be time for new leadership.

While you dont need to be a screaming lunatic like Fran there are/were times he needed to be far more in your face with the stripes. He really gets zero respect from the Zebras. Bo was far more effective.

[Jim French Stepstool]

11 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Thumbs up to this. You start on the "maybe Gard isn't the right guy" train, you end up as Minnesota pretty quick. Fired Tubby Smith (a good coach who consistently had that team in the running for tourneys, often landing in the bracket) and then went into the wilderness for more than a decade.

Gard has adjusted to new style, transfer portal hoops pretty darn well. We'd all love back-to-back Final Fours, but nobody at Wisconsin's level gets that very often. Unless you can get a young superstar coach like Michigan did yesterday, I don't see a lot to complain about.

And even then.................I mean, Little Ricky Pitino was a young superstar coach, right?

[RedStickBrew]

It begins… not surprising 

 

[yourout]

1 minute ago, RedStickBrew said:

It begins… not surprising 

 

I wish him well. He seemed to handle everything well while not being a disruption.

[jay87shot]

I am done with Gard (have been for a few years). 

1) No Wisconsin recruiting, the Wisconsin kids are transfers. We have to get the top talent in our own state.

2) No development, especially from the bigs.  Ethan Happ, Khalil Iverson, Nate Reuers, Ben Carlson, Ilver, Gilmore Wahl, and Crawl didn't improve any part of there games other than getting stronger. It was a staple of Bennett and Ryan with bigs that can shot. Aleem Ford and Micah Potter are the only guys who improves and Potter was a transfer and Ford averaged under 9 points a game as a senior.

3) Iso sets a big moments. Way to often coming out of a timeout in a big spot the play call is iso for Chucky Hepburn.