Counsell to Cubs

[rickh150]

9 hours ago, bigred said:

I understand. You're in the extreme minority though, of people who supposedly wouldn't. 

I cannot believe that a large majority would pull a Counsell. I think most would realize that this lateral move would totally be a bad look and more importantly bad feel, would not take the poison pill wrapped in gold dust, look elsewhere, sit out a year or two, or stay put. 

[rickh150]

10 hours ago, bigred said:

I completely understand your point, and I'm loyal like that too. But, I'm pretty confident that you don't make millions per year, so unless you're in the same position, I stand by my statement, you can't possibly truly know if you would or wouldn't make the same decision. Plus, pretty sure your wife wouldn't be happy if you turned down extra millions. Lol

You are making absolute stAtements about someone you don’t even know. That is the irony here. He could be 100% sure he would not leave for Chicago, regardless the money. 

[rickh150]

5 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

You are making absolute stAtements about someone you don’t even know. That is the irony here. He could be 100% sure he would not leave for Chicago, regardless the money. 

It’s like saying, “You can’t know ANYTHING for sure.” The mere statement violates the meaning.

[KeithStone53151]

14 hours ago, TURBO said:

Yup, the Milwaukee press NEVER asked the tough questions, threw him softballs his entire time here.

I'm not real familiar with the Chicago press, but I highly doubt they will be as easy on him as we were.  I look forward to seeing him squirm.

I can definitively tell you that Brewers press are scared to ask tough questions out of fear of losing access. By default, Chicago press will either be equal to our tougher on him. And agreed 100000 percent with a previous poster that noted counsell is softer than Charmin.

[KeithStone53151]

I don't really think it's his fault for what happened with Ross. Ross may or may not have stayed manager if Counsell didn't go there, but it's not like he called the cubs begging them to take him. It's honestly just what it is. Counsell going to the event has consequences and he knows it. I always intended to boo him intensely while he was manager there, but what he's said since taking the job has only fanned the flames. This feels so similar to favre, except in the case of favre he truly had an axe to grind. He was pissed at management for effectively moving on from him. Going to the Brewers number 1 rival for a 25 percent pay bump(I'm pulling that from what someone else said, is that really all it was?)...this is honestly worse than favre by a wide margin. He's approaching Molina territory in my sports hatred hierarchy, truly an accomplishment. 

[bigred]

4 hours ago, rickh150 said:

I cannot believe that a large majority would pull a Counsell. I think most would realize that this lateral move would totally be a bad look and more importantly bad feel, would not take the poison pill wrapped in gold dust, look elsewhere, sit out a year or two, or stay put. 

In today's world? I agree to disagree then. Very few people anymore, seem to give a rat's butt how their actions/decisions look to others, nor how others feel about their decision. I'll definitely root against him and the Cubs, but I'm not gonna hate someone over it. It's only a sport. Lol professional sports are not life or death for fans. 

[bigred]

4 hours ago, rickh150 said:

You are making absolute stAtements about someone you don’t even know. That is the irony here. He could be 100% sure he would not leave for Chicago, regardless the money. 

Absolute statement? Hardly lol. Until someone is in the SAME situation Counsell was in, people can't truly know what decision they would make or not make. That's just reality and common sense. Just like people who say winning the lottery wouldn't change their morals. There's no way they can know that until after the won. 

 

[bigred]

4 hours ago, rickh150 said:

It’s like saying, “You can’t know ANYTHING for sure.” The mere statement violates the meaning.

That is a life changing situation that very few people experience in their lives. So no, they can't possibly know what decision they would make, until it happened. Too each their own.

[homer]

it was life changing whether he left for Chicago or stayed in Milwaukee. He was gonna be rich no matter what he did (and he already was loaded)

[bigred]

21 minutes ago, homer said:

it was life changing whether he left for Chicago or stayed in Milwaukee. He was gonna be rich no matter what he did (and he already was loaded)

Another thing, for all we know, maybe there was animosity brewing between the organization and Counsell for a while, and that played into his decision. Maybe Counsell was getting sick of their penny pinching? 

[bigred]

26 minutes ago, homer said:

it was life changing whether he left for Chicago or stayed in Milwaukee. He was gonna be rich no matter what he did (and he already was loaded)

I was talking about fans that have NEVER been in a position like that. Not Counsell. Apples & Oranges. 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I think people have to start coming to grips with the fact this wasn't just about money. Counsell wanted to be elsewhere...period.

Quote

– If the Chicago Cubs did not pursue and hire manager Craig Counsell, friends say he was planning to go to Cleveland to replace Terry Francona. 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/02/25/mlb-free-agent-rumors-scott-boras-cody-bellinger/72732176007/

[MVP2110]

5 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

I think people have to start coming to grips with the fact this wasn't just about money. Counsell wanted to be elsewhere...period.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/02/25/mlb-free-agent-rumors-scott-boras-cody-bellinger/72732176007/

Going to Cleveland or New York would have sucked but fans would have gotten over it. Going to your teams biggest rival when you supposedly are a lifelong fan of that team is on a completely different level

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Just now, MVP2110 said:

Going to Cleveland or New York would have sucked but fans would have gotten over it. Going to your teams biggest rival when you supposedly are a lifelong fan of that team is on a completely different level

No doubt Cleveland would have stung less. But the real boat people are missing and have been missing from the start, is that Counsell really, REALLY wanted out of Milwaukee. That should be clear by now but I get the sense that it's not

[homer]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

I was talking about fans that have NEVER been in a position like that. Not Counsell. Apples & Oranges. 

you said:

All.of us would have made the same decision he did

I am saying not necessarily. 

[Underachiever]

Regarding the math on the 25% pay bump: I don't think that is true. The number I am seeing is that the brewers were in the 5.25 million range. The jump to 8 mill per year is 50%. Even if the Brewers went to $6mil, that's 33%. Add in the fact that he got $40 million guaranteed over 5 years, that's huge. I don't recall ever hearing how many years the Brewers offered, but if it was 5-6 Million over three years, that's an additional $20 million in guarantees. People who have money like more money, hometown boy or not.

Plus, it's obvious he wanted to go, so the back of the envelope math I just provided is really not pertinent to the discussion.

[TURBO]

2 hours ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

I think people have to start coming to grips with the fact this wasn't just about money. Counsell wanted to be elsewhere...period.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/02/25/mlb-free-agent-rumors-scott-boras-cody-bellinger/72732176007/

100% agree.  He wanted out of Milwaukee, and the money was a bonus.  Not sure he will fess up as to why he wanted the change, but the writing was on the wall, he wanted out!  Just too bad it had to be the Cubs of all teams.  I'm now fine with it, just gives me one more reason to root against them.

[RobertCrawley]

3 hours ago, bigred said:

I was talking about fans that have NEVER been in a position like that. Not Counsell. Apples & Oranges. 

Let's compare two rich guys, Coun$ell to Herb Kohl:

Ted Davis

 

More on Herb Kohl’s commitment to Milwaukee. He told me that during the Sale of the Bucks Steve Ballmer called to ask what was the highest bid? It was $550 Million from Lasry-Edens. Ballmer offered $1 Billion but he would move the Team to Seattle. Herb Kohl’s said no.

 

12:14 PM · Dec 28, 2023

 

https://x.com/nbated/status/1740435959974699421?s=20

[True Blue Brew Crew]

The "always take the most money" narrative is silly. I'd bet we've all made at least one choice in life to take less $$$ in exchange for something else on the whole. And now we can also toss the narrative that Counsell needed to be close to his kids. That was kept alive by Chicago's relative proximity to Milwaukee. Cleveland being where Counsell would be right now if not for Chicago blows up all remaining narratives. Counsell was not returning to Milwaukee. And toss the notion of taking a year off too. The question we all should be asking is why was Counsell dead set on managing elsewhere?

[nate82]

51 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

The question we all should be asking is why was Counsell dead set on managing elsewhere?

Burnout would be my guess plus a change of scenery.  Sometimes people just leave jobs because they just don’t want to work there anymore.  It may just be something as simple as Counsell thought he couldn’t take the Brewers any further than he already did and it is time for a new challenge.  

[AKCheesehead]

3 hours ago, homer said:

you said:

All.of us would have made the same decision he did

I am saying not necessarily. 

Agreed.  I know I wouldn't have made that decision for several different reasons.  Not the least of which being the fact that there's no amount of money you could pay me to live in chicago.

[Matt Breen]

1 hour ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

The question we all should be asking is why was Counsell dead set on managing elsewhere?

People sometimes just want to move on. It happens. Same people, same system, same everything. Maybe there were some personalities that just didn't quite mesh. Maybe it was being frustrated by certain problems that never got addressed. Who knows. It also might have been he was bored. He wanted a kick in the butt to go re-energize himself. He was a free agent and earned the right to go where he wanted, for whatever reasons. 

I'm not defending Counsell. He knew what his move would mean to Brewer fans. To try and pretend he didn't is just a lie. I think the thing that sucked most was he hosed Ross. That was pretty cutthroat. Sure Ross got his paycheck. But its gotta be a gut punch to have something like that happen. 

I honestly don't care about CC at this point. I just hope his team sucks. I don't really care about picking fights over little slights and comments. But whatever. As long as the Cubs lose. 

[Thurston Fluff]

I sometimes wonder if some people aren't fond of managing a team that adheres to the analytical approach too closely. Being told when to change pitchers and how to set lineups according to analytics has to make a person feel like they're just a plug and play manager instead of a leader. It has to be a blow to the ego when told to take pitcher X out in these specific circumstances. The lack of autonomy has to ruffle some feathers.

[patrickgpe]

I know this is a hot button issue and a lot here take it very personally, I just done with it and ready for the season to start. Murphy seems like a breath of fresh air and counsell clearly was never returning to the brewers.

 

[patrickgpe]

15 minutes ago, Thurston Fluff said:

I sometimes wonder if some people aren't fond of managing a team that adheres to the analytical approach too closely. Being told when to change pitchers and how to set lineups according to analytics has to make a person feel like they're just a plug and play manager instead of a leader. It has to be a blow to the ego when told to take pitcher X out in these specific circumstances. The lack of autonomy has to ruffle some feathers.

Maybe but it seems like you younger managers embrace analytics, it’s the old school baseball guys that don’t