Taylor, Houser to NYM

[Frisbee Slider]

7 minutes ago, MilwaukeeBeers said:

I personally am not a fan of helping out the Mets and Stearns. Which is what this deal does. 

Why would a top tier team desire a 91 OPS+ outfielder and a 105 ERA+ pitcher? We can produce those numbers and more for quite a bit less salary.

[wiguy94]

8 minutes ago, SRB said:

You keep saying this but do you really think he's going to make the jump to the majors immediately upon returning from TJ surgery in mid-2024? They can't just pretend he's injured all year. There is a huge difference in having him clogging the roster as a Rule 5 selection and having him as a prospect in the system, particularly if the team is trying to compete in 2024.

I don't think he's returning mid 2024. He had TJ in August not in June. 

[folly412]

Why not just non-tender Houser and Taylor?  Do we get kickbacks from Tommy John doctors for taking on their patients or something?

[Fear The Chorizo]

This is a trade a team makes to free up 40 man roster space in order to add elsewhere on the roster via free agency (or add another prospect or two to it...Gasser?  Black?).  If the Brewers don't have plans of trading any of their other young OFs and want Chourio in Milwaukee to start the season, Taylor has no spot on this roster.  Houser's best role has been that of a long man in the bullpen, and at the MLB level he's just a guy - you don't pay "just a guy" almost $6M in arbitration.

 

[sveumrules]

Just now, folly412 said:

Why not just non-tender Houser and Taylor? 

Because getting something back is better than getting nothing back?

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 minute ago, folly412 said:

Why not just non-tender Houser and Taylor?  Do we get kickbacks from Tommy John doctors for taking on their patients or something?

So you can use those expendable MLB assets to bring in a flyer of a prospect who you can stash and potentially get 6+ years of MLB control on, rather than pay roughly $8M in 2024 for bench players/swing arms on your roster.

[wiguy94]

8 minutes ago, Redd Vencher said:

You would have been forced to keep him on the big league roster most of 2025 as well as Rule 5 picks have to spend like 90-100 days on the big league roster for the restrictions to lapse.

Yes 90 days on the MLB roster in 2025 before he could be optioned. That's not that difficult. He's going to need to be added to the 40-man roster next offseason already so not sure why this is problematic. We just salary dumped 2 MLB players who combined for almost 3 WAR last year despite injuries because they were set to make $6M combined.

[Frisbee Slider]

It is worth remembering we can exoect league average production from our prospects for far less than $7 million in 2024.

[brewcrewdue80]

There should have been a ptbnl imo on this trade.  Barring Taylor and Houser having negative WAR seasons, you've given just about a 5pct chance Crow would reach the WAR value both will give the Mets in 2024 in his Brewers career.  How he will ever become a SP is beyond me since he has lost 2+seasons of development when he returns to baseball activities from his TJ.  

The upside is HS means he's young and will be in his 20s practically an entire team control.  A move to the bullpen maybe increases the FB velocity and he's a stud in the making there for cheap.  

Stearns traded for our guys, but at same time he brought back Houser and the like coming here right?  So maybe there's an insider info that Crow just needs to be healthy, and he's well off to being a huge contributor to the ML team.

 

The other notion on SP depth,  burnes trade gets back Sheehan or Miller or even 2 SPs, the slots are open for them.

[Matt Breen]

I'm not shocked we traded Houser and Taylor, just that we got so little for them. I mean, I wasn't expecting a ton - but Crow just seems like a light return. Perhaps more is to come.

[DR28]

With this money saved, better be going towards Hoskins.... Santana does nothing to improve this team.

[Brewcrew82]

RIP to @clancyphile's dream of extending Houser. 

[mudbutt]

4 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Yes 90 days on the MLB roster in 2025 before he could be optioned. That's not that difficult. He's going to need to be added to the 40-man roster next offseason already so not sure why this is problematic. We just salary dumped 2 MLB players who combined for almost 3 WAR last year despite injuries because they were set to make $6M combined.

You think playing a man down on the active MLB roster for three months is not difficult, while also taking up a 40 man roster spot a year early? Dude.

[SRB]

A "salary dump" is when a team trades a player (generally on a guaranteed contract) for pennies on the dollar because they're trying to slash overall payroll. Setting aside the fact that Crow looks like a nice prospect who we are buying low on, non-tendering or trading guys who you don't think have a role on the team is not a "salary dump"

They just gave more guaranteed money than this saved us to Wade Miley! They could have just kept Houser if all they cared about was money. This is not a move signaling that the team is deadset on slashing payroll at any cost.

[wiguy94]

Just now, mudbutt said:

You think playing a man down on the active MLB roster for three months is not difficult, while also taking up a 40 man roster spot a year early? Dude.

He wouldn't take up a 40-man roster spot in season because he would be on the 60-day IL...

[brewcrewdue80]

1 minute ago, mudbutt said:

You think playing a man down on the active MLB roster for three months is not difficult, while also taking up a 40 man roster spot a year early? Dude.

Add option too. Vs not I believe this year.

[mudbutt]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

He wouldn't take up a 40-man roster spot in season because he would be on the 60-day IL...

But he does for the 90 days because he has to be on the active roster.  You can't just stash guys on the IL from the Rule 5 draft.

[Frisbee Slider]

We just got the stadium deal passed. I think it would be bad optics to overly go into salary, dump mode in 2024.

[wiguy94]

Just now, mudbutt said:

But he does for the 90 days because he has to be on the active roster.  You can't just stash guys on the IL from the Rule 5 draft.

My point is the people who are trying to justify this trade as not a salary dump because the Brewers clearly value Crow a bunch are being ironic. If Brewers clearly valued Crow they would have taken him in the Rule 5 draft. If they just had to get him they wouldn't have taken the chance of someone else selecting him or trading for him in the last 2 weeks.

[Brewcrew82]

Also, for everyone getting all up in arms over giving up one year of Houser, Steamer projects a rookie Gasser to be more valuable than Houser this year....

Bottom line: This is largely a nothing burger and doesn't inhibit this year's roster, while providing for increased flexibility for the future. Houser and Taylor are being replaced by younger, higher upside prospects. If the Brewers were solely interested in cutting payroll this offseason, you'd be seeing a trade of Yelich. 

[wiguy94]

1 minute ago, Frisbee Slider said:

We just got the stadium deal passed. I think it would be bad optics to overly go into salary, dump mode in 2024.

As of right now we are probably looking at opening day payroll being down $15M +/- $5M compared to our 2023 opening day 26 man payroll and about $30M lower than our 2022 opening day payroll.

[Redd Vencher]

12 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Yes 90 days on the MLB roster in 2025 before he could be optioned. That's not that difficult. He's going to need to be added to the 40-man roster next offseason already so not sure why this is problematic. We just salary dumped 2 MLB players who combined for almost 3 WAR last year despite injuries because they were set to make $6M combined.

I agree the return is light. I was just pointing out why you would trade for him onstead of select him in the Rule 5.

[TURBO]

43 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

FWIW, we had zero room available on the 40 man roster after the Haas signing. This creates two open spots. 

Like we couldn't clear some space if we had to...That just isn't enough justification for a head scratching trade.

[wiguy94]

2 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Also, for everyone getting all up and arms over giving up one year of Houser, Steamer projects a rookie Gasser to be more valuable than Houser this year....

Bottom line: This is largely a nothing burger and doesn't inhibit this year's roster, while providing for increased flexibility for the future. 

Steamer also has Rea projected to be Miley. It's clearly not an exact science lol.

[Samurai Bucky]

Just now, wiguy94 said:

As of right now we are probably looking at opening day payroll being down $15M +/- $5M compared to our 2023 opening day 26 man payroll and about $30M lower than our 2022 opening day payroll.

.,. and if they trade Burnes, whoa Nellie!