Moving Mitchell AND Wiemer

[Scooterfletcher]

These guys have the majority of their value in the future stemming from their ability to play CF well above average imho.   We all know Chourio is going to be the CF regardless of the fact he has to “prove it”.   Should we not be trying to move these guys in deals for either prospects at other positions or as heavy sweeteners in a deal along with Corbin Burnes?

I hope Arnold is looking into deals to move these two, as I believe at least one of them should be dealt before the season (even at a perceived by the board slightly lesser value) as I feel their value will go down if we hold both another year (time will tell if I’m right on their value a year from now).   If we can get their BTV value or 80 percent of it, I’d move at least one but not be afraid to deal both this winter.   Thoughts?

[bigred]

12 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

These guys have the majority of their value in the future stemming from their ability to play CF well above average imho.   We all know Chourio is going to be the CF regardless of the fact he has to “prove it”.   Should we not be trying to move these guys in deals for either prospects at other positions or as heavy sweeteners in a deal along with Corbin Burnes?

I hope Arnold is looking into deals to move these two, as I believe at least one of them should be dealt before the season (even at a perceived by the board slightly lesser value) as I feel their value will go down if we hold both another year (time will tell if I’m right on their value a year from now).   If we can get their BTV value or 80 percent of it, I’d move at least one but not be afraid to deal both this winter.   Thoughts?

I don't think it's a given that Chourio will man CF. I the other 2 positions are also real possibilities. Mitchell and Weimer both play near gold glove level defense in Center. 

[Dave_Not_Here]

I'm not actively shopping either player, but if the right deal comes along, sure. 

 

Having multiple gold glive caliber outfielders on the roster who could realistically play all three positions is a nice luxury to have, and quality, lower cost depth is never a bad thing.  

[jay87shot]

Since all 4 young guys can play center I think you let give Chourio some time in LF and CF. Long term we could have 3/4 potential gold glove caliber players maybe even this year depending on how well Chourio plays.

[MNBrew]

I get the logic behind the idea, but I don't think you make a move to unload that much of your depth just yet, especially when you're talking about young players who still might prove they need some time in AAA (slumps, injuries, etc.).

Last year we felt like we had embarrassment of riches in terms of MLB-ready young OF talent.  Then Mitchell got hurt, Wiemer eventually struggled, Frelick came up hot & eventually leveled off just like Wiemer did (just not at such a low level), Chourio wasn't MLB-ready yet, and Mitchell showed plenty of rust at the plate when he finally was activated.... Owen Miller eventually proved to be a bit player at best, Jesse Winker sucked from the start, and Tyrone Taylor missed a lot of time with injuries.  Thank goodness for all that depth and a generally healthy year out of Yelich!

[jay87shot]

I know this is digging up an old thread but Perkins is making this idea logical. Especially with Hicklen and Roller playing well in AAA. To top that off Tyler Black is still struggling to find a IF fit, making LF possibly his most likely long term home. I think the problem is that Weimer and Mitchell probably don't have the greatest trade value right now. I could see either being a solid 2nd piece in bringing in a top of the rotation arm later in the year. I am sure we could keep one of Weimer or Mitchell in AAA but eventually we might need to move off of one or both.

Yeli, Sal, Chourio, and Perkins with guys like Miller and Bauers as emergency subs if Yeli DH is really solid. Maybe Black comes up in a month to take Bauers spot and gets some OF time as well?

Mitchell/Mithcell to the CWS for Michael Kopech and OF Wilfred Veras. We get a solid reliever contollable through 2025 and a throw in prospect that our org. does so well hitting on. The CWS OF is trash without Robert and Mitchell could go a long way towards helping them.

Weimer/Mitchell, Taylor Clarke, Monte to M's for Andres Munoz     The M's have Julio and Haniger playing well in the OF but no 3rd option. Trader Jerry gets Weimer and Monte to help his lineup, Matt Brash and Gregory Santos should be back making it possible for us to pry Munoz from them. Munoz has affordable options through '28. Obviously Weimer or Mitchell would have to play well at some point this year to make this one happen.

[tmwiese55]

If you think they're not good and want to get something back while they still have upside prospect value, sure. Or if yes there is a different proven player you're trading for and have to give something back.   Otherwise if its out of the supposed 'logjam', I think the start of the season has shown exactly why it wasn't needed to trade any of them away.   A month in, two OFs are hurt. Weimer still looks like he can't hit at the MLB level.  Frelick has been ok but not great.  

[jay87shot]

I think Mitchell can play but with the injuries I am not sure we are ever going to see enough of him. I still believe in Weimer but he is going to need more consistent playing time in the bigs and he likely won't get that with us. 

 

[brewcrewdue80]

19 hours ago, jay87shot said:

I think Mitchell can play but with the injuries I am not sure we are ever going to see enough of him. I still believe in Weimer but he is going to need more consistent playing time in the bigs and he likely won't get that with us. 

 

When I've watched Mitchell hit predraft in to MLB- he gives the feel to a Kyle Tucker to me.  It's been said he has the power to hit more HRs, he just (like Yelich) launch angle too low.

Wiemer was to be a solve as a RHB. If Perkins is even or beating Wiemer vs LHPs give it a go. Just don't settle on the 1yr rental when doing so.

[Brian]

On 4/23/2024 at 1:01 PM, brewcrewdue80 said:

When I've watched Mitchell hit predraft in to MLB- he gives the feel to a Kyle Tucker to me.  It's been said he has the power to hit more HRs, he just (like Yelich) launch angle too low.

Wiemer was to be a solve as a RHB. If Perkins is even or beating Wiemer vs LHPs give it a go. Just don't settle on the 1yr rental when doing so.

Wiemer is not MLB ready as of now, he needs more time in Nashville to get some of his confidence back. 

[TURBO]

I can't be the only one losing faith in Wiemer?

I am starting to think that our original 3 can't miss outfielders are all 3 going to miss after all.

Wiemer is lost, completely lost.  I think having him play most of the season last year with the crew when he obviously wasn't ready was probably pretty bad for his development in the long run.  

Mitchell can't stay healthy.  Will we ever see what he truly brings to the table?

Sal seems to be nothing more than an average at best guy, what does he have to offer?

Suddenly, the position we thought we were stocked at, isn't stocked after all. (at least not as of right this moment)

Am I wrong, too early to judge?

[sveumrules]

39 minutes ago, TURBO said:

I can't be the only one losing faith in Wiemer?

I am starting to think that our original 3 can't miss outfielders are all 3 going to miss after all.

Wiemer is lost, completely lost.  I think having him play most of the season last year with the crew when he obviously wasn't ready was probably pretty bad for his development in the long run.  

Mitchell can't stay healthy.  Will we ever see what he truly brings to the table?

Sal seems to be nothing more than an average at best guy, what does he have to offer?

Suddenly, the position we thought we were stocked at, isn't stocked after all. (at least not as of right this moment)

Am I wrong, too early to judge?

There is no such thing as a can’t miss prospect, that’s the whole reason the Brewers have placed so much emphasis on building and maintaining organizational depth since Stearns/Arnold arrived.

But ultimately, yes, it’s too early to tell because the samples are still so small. Even with that said, all three have mostly lived up to their scouting reports in their brief taste of MLB thus far.

Mitchell has flashed the excitement with a 119 wRC+ in his 141 PAs, but questions linger about how sustainable that is with a 38.3 K% and .441 BABIP under the hood plus all the injuries. Hopefully we’ll have another two tree hundred PAs to go off by the time the season’s over, but I’m definitely not counting on it.

Frelick has 315 PAs now with better than average plate discipline (128 BB%+ | 83 K%+) and an affinity for singles (104 AVG+) but a paucity of pop (49 ISO+). The high likelihood of Sal being an average player was what carried his profile and so far that’s what he’s delivered.

Wiemer always was considered the most boom or bust of the three and so far it’s been mostly bust. But even with as bad as the bat has been, he’s still notched 1.0 WAR in his 421 PAs on account of defense and base running so his overall impact is in the red.

All told the three of them have totaled 3.1 WAR over their first 877 PA and counting which is pretty cromulent production for guys just getting acclimated to MLB.

Meanwhile, our best non-Yelich OF the last two years has been the guy a vocal segment of the internet was up in arms about even being put on the 40 Man two winters ago just because they’d never heard of him.

[Jim French Stepstool]

13 hours ago, TURBO said:

I can't be the only one losing faith in Wiemer?

I am starting to think that our original 3 can't miss outfielders are all 3 going to miss after all.

Wiemer is lost, completely lost.  I think having him play most of the season last year with the crew when he obviously wasn't ready was probably pretty bad for his development in the long run.  

Mitchell can't stay healthy.  Will we ever see what he truly brings to the table?

Sal seems to be nothing more than an average at best guy, what does he have to offer?

Suddenly, the position we thought we were stocked at, isn't stocked after all. (at least not as of right this moment)

Am I wrong, too early to judge?

You're right re Wiemer & last season. Just an unfortunate situation having to use him in Milwaukee last season (and this, too, for that matter). What I wouldn't give for him to just be left alone to put up 500 ABs this year at AAA. But way too toolsy to be given up on.

With Mitchell, of the top 5 issues, four are health. And the fifth is the high K rate, which can only be rectified by more PAs, which is hindered by.........health. Like with Wiemer, too much there to give up on yet.

Don't know if he'll ever hit LHP well enough, but I like Frelick. I just feel the kids a winner on both ends of the floor. let's keep in mind Turangs' struggles last year. Frelick never struggled quite that badly, and I think there's still some room for growth.

[Brian]

3 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

You're right re Wiemer & last season. Just an unfortunate situation having to use him in Milwaukee last season (and this, too, for that matter). What I wouldn't give for him to just be left alone to put up 500 ABs this year at AAA. But way too toolsy to be given up on.

With Mitchell, of the top 5 issues, four are health. And the fifth is the high K rate, which can only be rectified by more PAs, which is hindered by.........health. Like with Wiemer, too much there to give up on yet.

Don't know if he'll ever hit LHP well enough, but I like Frelick. I just feel the kids a winner on both ends of the floor. let's keep in mind Turangs' struggles last year. Frelick never struggled quite that badly, and I think there's still some room for growth.

Joey Wiemer reminds me of Keston Hiura,  He just can't make that jump from AAA and it has now transferred to making mistakes defensively. Actually Hiura's numbers were much better than Wiemer's in Nashville. At least Pat Murphy gives them a fare chance to prove themselves. 

[MrTPlush]

The three outfielders were nice prospects....but hardly can't miss elite guys. I always thought Mitchell had the best ceiling and potential of the bunch. Frelick had a big hit tool, but his power was really suspect from the get-go. You basically hoped he would put up a nice AVG/OBP to go with his speed. And Wiemer....yah, he always seemed like an offensive red flag. 

[nate82]

24 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

The three outfielders were nice prospects....but hardly can't miss elite guys. I always thought Mitchell had the best ceiling and potential of the bunch. Frelick had a big hit tool, but his power was really suspect from the get-go. You basically hoped he would put up a nice AVG/OBP to go with his speed. And Wiemer....yah, he always seemed like an offensive red flag. 

Wiemer had a high ceiling but it all depended on if he would hit enough. I agree Mitchell had the highest ceiling.  I have him comparable to someone like Grady Sizemore, Wiemer closer to Hart/Jenkins and Frelick closer to someone like Kenny Lofton. 

Frelick has the highest floor of all three OF's but being the weakest of the three defensively in the OF.  Frelick should only be playing LF and CF.  I do not like Frelick in RF at all.  Mitchell and Wiemer are very close defensively in the OF.  I still rank the three OF's: 1. Mitchell 2. Frelick 3. Wiemer.

I don't believe the Brewers can move either Wiemer or Mitchell in a trade and get anything of value back.  Basically if you trade Wiemer now you are getting a AAAA player back at best.  If you trade Mitchell now you probably don't get anything back in return.  If you want to trade an OF and get some value back it would be Frelick and not Mitchell or Wiemer. 

[MrTPlush]

20 minutes ago, nate82 said:

I don't believe the Brewers can move either Wiemer or Mitchell in a trade and get anything of value back.  Basically if you trade Wiemer now you are getting a AAAA player back at best.  If you trade Mitchell now you probably don't get anything back in return.  If you want to trade an OF and get some value back it would be Frelick and not Mitchell or Wiemer. 

Our infatuation with those three guys made it pretty easy to dump Esteury Ruiz in the eyes of fans. No one seemed to care much and kind of assumed him as the worst of the bunch, he ironically may end up the best of them all. Not to say the trade was bad or anything...because Contreras would never have ended up here without trading him specifically. 

At this point there is no reason to trade anyone. Maybe Mitchell gets healthy or maybe someone ends up a late bloomer. 

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

10 hours ago, Brian said:

Joey Wiemer reminds me of Keston Hiura,  He just can't make that jump from AAA and it has now transferred to making mistakes defensively. Actually Hiura's numbers were much better than Wiemer's in Nashville. At least Pat Murphy gives them a fare chance to prove themselves. 

That might prove to be a pretty good analogy, in time. But before I put that label on him I'd like to see Wiemer get a chance to actually settle in at the AAA level & see if the setup & swing adjustments can take hold. He's never really had that chance.