Packers 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Joseph Zarr]

No clue here. Maybe the hamstring issues?

[young guns]

That would be good speculation and my first thought as well.

[Fear The Chorizo]

25 minutes ago, young guns said:

That would be good speculation and my first thought as well.

Look for the potential DC hire who has a kid or buddy that's a S and C coach.

[Sixtolezcano]

11 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

You're WAY too hard on Carlson...though I get it.

Well, Carlson tried to kick that last field goal in POURING rain and with the ball pointing away from him at a ~45 degree angle(maybe not exactly that). And his plant leg slipped.

He is who he is? He's a rookie. A rookie with a HUGE leg. We'd have cut Crosby MULTIPLE times based on these standards. 

The kid gets the yips on easy ones maybe. He's an incredible talent and you don't just give up on him.

Had we known it'd come down to the kicker, Crosby(who was worse as a rookie) is probably still here, but that was pretty hard to foresee. 

You must be kidding, he was 4 for 9 in FGs from 40-49 yards (44.4%). The next lowest was  4/6 (Tyler Bass). He ranked 24th in FG percentage at 81.8%. 

He ranked 25th in XP% at 87.2% (33 yards). Essentially this was right in line with his stats in college. I just don’t see where the “incredible talent” and “HUGE leg” comments comes from. I see a poor kicker with just average leg strength.  It is so important to make kicks from 30-49 yards if you expect to make the playoffs. At the very minimum Gutey should bring in a couple of kickers next summer and may the best man win.

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, Sixtolezcano said:

You must be kidding, he was 4 for 9 in FGs from 40-49 yards (44.4%). The next lowest was  4/6 (Tyler Bass). He ranked 25th in FG percentage at 81.8%. 

Also he had the worst percentage of XP made at 87.2% (33 yards). Essentially this was right in line with his stats in college. I just don’t see where the “incredible talent” and “HUGE leg” comments comes from. I see a poor kicker with just average leg strength.  It is so important to make kicks from 30-49 yards if you expect to make the playoffs. At the very minimum Gutey should bring in a couple of kickers next summer and may the best man win.

If you can't make kicks less than 50 yards at a 85 percent clip, your job is on the line.  When you aren't making extra points at a 90 percent plus clip, same.

Carlson needs to win the job in training camp against a veteran kicker with a track record of being dependable from inside 50 yards in order to justify the upside of his ability from 50 plus with a big leg.

[patrickgpe]

Packers signed Jake Podlesny. His college stats are much better than Carlson, but went undrafted and was a preseason cut. I think this is a great move by Gutey. 

[duewizard]

1 hour ago, patrickgpe said:

Packers signed Jake Podlesny. His college stats are much better than Carlson, but went undrafted and was a preseason cut. I think this is a great move by Gutey. 

Absolutely. I think maybe getting a vet FA and lets see which of the 3 wins the job.

I would also like a new punter. O'Donnel and Whelan are not good enough.

 

[LouisEly]

Podlesny went undrafted because he doesn't have a strong leg.  Not very useful from 50+ or kickoffs.

Hope they scout the UFL, particularly for ex-soccer players.

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, Sixtolezcano said:

You must be kidding,

I'm not.

5 hours ago, Sixtolezcano said:

he was 4 for 9 in FGs from 40-49 yards (44.4%). The next lowest was  4/6 (Tyler Bass). He ranked 24th in FG percentage at 81.8%. 

Wow...81.8. So we never should have kept Mason Crosby around, huh? Crosby was worse as a rookie.

82% of your FGs? And 24th in the league means nothing to me. He plays in GB. He's got a monster led and he was a rookie. 

No, it's definitely not clear he's gone and it'd likely be a really dumb mistake(kinda like Minnesota made when they cut his brother).

5 hours ago, Sixtolezcano said:

I see a poor kicker with just average leg strength.

You don't see a strong leg? That was average leg strength? Dude, who are you comparing him to? Go back and watch the 52 and 57 yard kicks he hit that would have been good from 65. 

 

4 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

If you can't make kicks less than 50 yards at a 85 percent clip, your job is on the line.  When you aren't making extra points at a 90 percent plus clip, same.

Carlson needs to win the job in training camp against a veteran kicker with a track record of being dependable from inside 50 yards in order to justify the upside of his ability from 50 plus with a big leg.

Yeah, if this is as good as he is, then obviously he won't have a long career.

He's also a rookie and rookie Kickers VERY often struggle. Carlson was better than Crosby. His own Brother became an All Pro kicker(in the same league as Justin Tucker...while Tucker's in his prime) after being cut by the Vikings in a rash move.

The idea that we just dump him AND that the STs Coordinator should go...just after we're finally seeing some improvements is what I thought was WAY over the top.

Not the idea that you have some competition and you bring in a veteran kicker. You don't anoint him anything, but you don't blow up your entire STs because of a bad final quarter to the season. 

I said in another thread, I assume if the Packers had ANY idea they'd be in the position they were in, Mason Crosby would have still been employed. BUT, let's keep in mind, not only did we move on from Crosby, we also chose to go young at LS and Punter/holder. Not shocking there were a few things we needed to iron out in the kicking game. No way would I give up and start over not only just at kicker, but with all STs. 

 

[BrewerFan]

6 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

No clue here. Maybe the hamstring issues?

Seems like an area a team could invest more money in and get themselves a big benefit.

I've seen Twitter Doctors say that Watson would likely keep having injuries due to his past while others have said he needs to work on his core and his back and lamenting the fact that NFL teams don't address the issues that lead to hamstrings. 

Just paraphrasing what I recall, but they said that you're lower back and core lead to more hamstring issues than anything else. All NFL teams try and work on strengthening the hamstring, they do Yoga and things like that, but apparently, it's not enough.

The Packers are about middle of the pack in terms of injuries...though it certainly feels like they're much worse than average. But makes sense they'd aim for more. They built that medical facility so their players had the best treatment...so hopefully they get a guy who has a more nuances and educated approach to injury prevention. 

 

This was not done just for Christian Watson(he's got his own team of specialists who have a training program for him)...but if they could manage to keep him healthy? He changes this whole offense. It's like Dame's spacing the court. You've got slide a safety to his side and it opens up so much space. 

[patrickgpe]

After some thought, I do think Don Martindale makes the most sense for DC. Id be upset if it’s Leonard. If it’s a younger position coach from a great defense I’m ok with that too. 

[BrewerFan]

8 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

After some thought, I do think Don Martindale makes the most sense for DC. Id be upset if it’s Leonard. If it’s a younger position coach from a great defense I’m ok with that too. 

I'm good with Martindale. He's an aggressive coach. I don't understand why you'd be upset with Leonhard. He's very similar...though I think JL has more creative blitzes, but they send pressure, they play man...they run the same system.

I like the young guy with more energy who's played, but I'd be happy with Wink. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

I don't know if personalities / egos would mesh to make it work, but what about someone like Rex Ryan?  He was rumored to be interested in getting back into the NFL coaching ranks as a DC....not sure if it'd be a good fit, but if people like Leonhard why not bring in the guy who he played defense for and learned from at the NFL level?

Truth be told, I think the only DC job Ryan would take would be in Dallas if Quinn gets hired as a HC elsewhere.

 

Vic Fangio is also out there - but I'm guessing he's already headed to Philly based on rumors.

[patrickgpe]

3 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

 I don't understand why you'd be upset with Leonhard. He's very similar...though

not because of scheme, but it would be asking a lot for someone with no pro coaching experience to run a defense. Especially with an offense focused head coach. The success level of college coaches going pro isn't very good.

 

[OldHeidelberg]

54 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

not because of scheme, but it would be asking a lot for someone with no pro coaching experience to run a defense. Especially with an offense focused head coach. The success level of college coaches going pro isn't very good.

 

We have been cycling through veteran coaches for a while now without a whole lot of success despite what seems to be a lot of talent. There are probably other factors at play in that, the type of players they like to draft, how they practice, the offense centric organization and head coaches, etc. But I think it's time to take a chance on a young coach like Leonhard and I think he is most likely the guy but we will find out soon enough. Leonhard also had a long NFL career and I think he could have easily got his coaching career started there if we wanted so not too worried about the college coach thing.    

[patrickgpe]

agreed, but then why not hire a young position coach off of a good defense like Chris Hewitt. I guess I won' be upset if its Leonard, but also I think some may want him to get the job more  because he is a badger. Michigan had the best defense in college football, if they hired their DC to the same job, would packer fans be excited or disappointed, I think the latter. 

[BrewerFan]

6 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Vic Fangio is also out there - but I'm guessing he's already headed to Philly based on rumors.

....I almost can't tell if this is serious. Why on Earth would anyone want Vic Fangio at this piont? After the frustrations with watching his defense implemented in GB?

8 of the 10 worst defenses all the Fangio style defenses(maybe it's 8 of 12 or whatever, but they were all at the bottom). 

I want nothing to do with that man or that style of defense.

4 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

agreed, but then why not hire a young position coach off of a good defense like Chris Hewitt. I guess I won' be upset if its Leonard, but also I think some may want him to get the job more  because he is a badger. Michigan had the best defense in college football, if they hired their DC to the same job, would packer fans be excited or disappointed, I think the latter. 

No, it is NOT because he is a Badger. I sure as hell haven't wanted any of their other coordinators.

This whole, 'Packers fans want him because he was a Badger,' is driving me nuts. He didn't have 'Bama, Florida State, Tx A&M, the Rams, Packers, Mich St and several other programs try and interview or hire Leonhard only to be turned down because of some bias.

He's been talked about as being one of the best young coaches in Football for years. It's NOT because he was at Madison.

 

Then you followed it up with Packers fans would be disappointed if we hired Minter because Michigan had a highly-ranked defense. 

A-I'd be alright with Minter. He uses his front 4 to get home and drops 7 more often than not he has overwhelming talent and 5 star recruits, BUT, he's a great young coach and I'd be fine with it.

B-It's NOT about where Wisconsin ranked defensively. That certainly supports what you see on the field, but it's not like we're looking at lists of rankings and saying, "Ooh, this team ranks high, let's hire that guy." 

 

It's really simple. He plays a very aggressive style, he runs a 3-4...he adjusts to his players(nearly 50% man in 2019, one of the highest in the Nation, bottoming out at 20-some %^ in '22 when he didn't have the corners who could hold up). 

Given the national coverage, he's gotten and ALL the top College programs who've wanted to interview/hire him on top of the NFL teams...I can't fathom why people would say it's "more because he's a Badger."

If TJ Watt was a FA, you think Packers fans might want him irrespective of where he played College ball? Conversely, TJ Edwards was a FA. I didn't see people clamoring for him(and he has been a very good NFL LBer).

 

[BrewerFan]

6 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

not because of scheme, but it would be asking a lot for someone with no pro coaching experience to run a defense. Especially with an offense focused head coach. The success level of college coaches going p badro isn't very good.

 

Is it bad though? I think most great coaches coached in College.

I think you're using some of the big-name, authoritarian coaches from 20 years ago who became Head Coaches in the NFL to make your point, but I don't think you'd find the same tendency with coordinators. Particularly when talking about a young guy who had a 10-year NFL career. 

That's quite a bit different than Saban or Steve Spurrier spending decades in CFB and then transitioning to the NFL. 

[GAME05]

Packers have made enough mistakes not drafting Badgers players, starting with Troy Vincent. I'd like to not do the same with former Badger coaches. If he even wants the job, anyway.

[LouisEly]

9 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

not because of scheme, but it would be asking a lot for someone with no pro coaching experience to run a defense. Especially with an offense focused head coach. The success level of college coaches going pro isn't very good.

 

He has 10 years of experience playing in a pro defense.  You don't think after 10 years in the league, as smart as he is, that he doesn't know how to run a defense?  He was an undersized UDFA who stayed in the league for a decade - you don't do that without knowing pro defense inside and out.  He knows Rex Ryan's defense so well that he brought it to Madison; he wasn't piggy-backing off of Aranda. 

[Joseph Zarr]

I personally feel as tho if we happened to go with Leonhard and he wanted back in the candidacy for the Packers D-Coordinator, we'd get the hungriest version of him. He had unfinished business at Wisconsin. He tended to it. He was bypassed for the head coaching gig. With a year off to heal and to study and or reflect, I'd have to think we'd get the hungriest version. I would be excited about the hire. Why would we not be?! We just had Joe friggin' Barry leading the defense!

[areacodes]

10 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

agreed, but then why not hire a young position coach off of a good defense like Chris Hewitt. I guess I won' be upset if its Leonard, but also I think some may want him to get the job more  because he is a badger. Michigan had the best defense in college football, if they hired their DC to the same job, would packer fans be excited or disappointed, I think the latter. 

Why is a young position coach in the NFL, with no experience running his own D, more appealing than a very highly regarded and experienced college DC?

I won’t lie, I’d enjoy Leonhard as the coach more than some others because he is a Badger but that is not why I’d want him as the coach.

What I like about Leonhard is the flexibility in the system he runs and the aggressive nature of his teams. The fact that he got top ranked D’s with lower ranked and less heralded players is another reason I’d prefer him over other college DC’s from big time programs that get a bunch of 5 stars.

In the end, I’d be happy with many of the names floating around as the most important qualification is they are not named Joe Barry.

[patrickgpe]

1 hour ago, areacodes said:

Why is a young position coach in the NFL, with no experience running his own D, more appealing than a very highly regarded and experienced college DC?

I won’t lie, I’d enjoy Leonhard as the coach more than some others because he is a Badger but that is not why I’d want him as the coach.

What I like about Leonhard is the flexibility in the system he runs and the aggressive nature of his teams. The fact that he got top ranked D’s with lower ranked and less heralded players is another reason I’d prefer him over other college DC’s from big time programs that get a bunch of 5 stars.

In the end, I’d be happy with many of the names floating around as the most important qualification is they are not named Joe Barry.

@BrewerFan @areacodes @LouisEly I did say that if MLF thought he was the best candidate, I wouldn’t be upset. I do wish that they brought in someone with pro coaching experience since he would be running the d with an offensive focused coach. I never said he was a bad coach, ran a poor scheme or anything. He always struck me as a smart coach. Jeez, I wasn’t bashing him at all, just stating my opinion on the profile of the coach I wanted them to hire 

[GAME05]

I never had the impression you were bashing anyone. To say you want a more experienced coach isn't any knock on Leonhard any one bit. Perfectly reasonable opinion. 

Leonhard on skill/ability alone would have been cut from the NFL two years in. He's always been a coach in a player's body. And Harbaugh being some kind of great coach says there probably isn't some huge scheming difference between the two levels. I like that Leonhard would bring in a lot of new ideas and unique packages and wouldn't be what we keep seeing from coordinators--the sort of plays that the other team yells out because they know what's coming.

Plus playoffs or no this is still a pretty young team that can afford to take a bigger risk on a coordinator. We're still kinda-sorta in that rebuilding stage. Adding to it the lifespan of a defensive coordinator is 2.6 years, so not too long to begin with. But in Leonhard, if he's successful, we can maybe maybe maybe get a guy who just likes staying in Wisconsin and may stick around a good bit longer. Anybody else, if they're any good, is gone in two years.

[areacodes]

16 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

@BrewerFan @areacodes @LouisEly I did say that if MLF thought he was the best candidate, I wouldn’t be upset. I do wish that they brought in someone with pro coaching experience since he would be running the d with an offensive focused coach. I never said he was a bad coach, ran a poor scheme or anything. He always struck me as a smart coach. Jeez, I wasn’t bashing him at all, just stating my opinion on the profile of the coach I wanted them to hire 

I didn’t take it as you were bashing him.

I was genuinely curious as to why you’d prefer a coach with no coordinator experience just because he coached at the pro level.