Hader

[AdvantageSchneider]

On 2/10/2024 at 7:36 PM, StearnsFTW said:

I think this is wildly unlikely. 

When Hader went all the way to a hearing in 2020 -- arbitrators ruled his salary should be $4.1 million instead of the $6.4 million he sought --

Are there people out there that think that if the Brewers ponied up an extra $2.3M back in 2020 that Hader would have turned down the 5 year $100M he got the astros and would be happy pitching for the Brewers for 5 years and $40 M or whatever?  

There must be some because I've read a lot of comments how the Brewers screw up with Burnes in arbitration like there was some chance they could sign him to before free agency.  

[Thurston Fluff]

7 hours ago, AdvantageSchneider said:

When Hader went all the way to a hearing in 2020 -- arbitrators ruled his salary should be $4.1 million instead of the $6.4 million he sought --

Are there people out there that think that if the Brewers ponied up an extra $2.3M back in 2020 that Hader would have turned down the 5 year $100M he got the astros and would be happy pitching for the Brewers for 5 years and $40 M or whatever?  

There must be some because I've read a lot of comments how the Brewers screw up with Burnes in arbitration like there was some chance they could sign him to before free agency.  

I think what they're saying is had the Brewers not used the lack of saves against him in arbitration he would have been more amendable to pitching more than one inning save situations while here.

[Underachiever]

One of my favorite baseball memories of the last few years is Hader's 8-K wipeout of the Reds in 2018. Despite the outcome of that game, I think that the evolution of Hader's more traditional use as a one-inning closer was inevitable. I think the Brewers had to weigh the value of Hader over a 162-game season, and the decision to have him available for more games is the best one. There is nothing to indicate that he wouldn't have pitched multiple innings if the playoffs required it, as he showed with the Padres in 2022. But the prudent use of a dominant closer over the course of a six-month season will probably always be to stick to the one inning. Are all games important? Certainly. But do you want Hader pitching a five-out save in May against the White Sox? I'm not sure I do.

The separate issue of then what happens in an arbitration hearing is a different discussion. I don't think that a manager is worrying about a January hearing during the 8th inning of a game when he is lining up his bullpen.

 

[AdvantageSchneider]

5 hours ago, Thurston Fluff said:

I think what they're saying is had the Brewers not used the lack of saves against him in arbitration he would have been more amendable to pitching more than one inning save situations while here.

I suppose but his stance on only pitching one inning didn't change when he was traded to the Padres so that seems like more of a system issue with arbitration rather than a shortcoming of the Brewers.

And as others have stated we will see if anything changes now that he has the guaranteed contract with the Astros.

[liveforoctober]

18 hours ago, AdvantageSchneider said:

I'm not sure why that's hypocritical.  

Because we want a guy to give up at bats to hit ground balls to the right side to move runners over from 2nd to 3rd, or chop the ball on the infield to score runners from 3rd. Then the guy loses his job because his power numbers aren't high enough.

If I'm Gary Sanchez and there is nobody out and a runner on 2nd ... I'm trying to put the ball into the stands because I know a .2 difference in my OPS might be the difference in a contract or not the next year.

Fans ask for the 'baseball play' but also get upset at the 'lack' of numbers.

[AdvantageSchneider]

15 minutes ago, liveforoctober said:

Because we want a guy to give up at bats to hit ground balls to the right side to move runners over from 2nd to 3rd, or chop the ball on the infield to score runners from 3rd. Then the guy loses his job because his power numbers aren't high enough.

If I'm Gary Sanchez and there is nobody out and a runner on 2nd ... I'm trying to put the ball into the stands because I know a .2 difference in my OPS might be the difference in a contract or not the next year.

Fans ask for the 'baseball play' but also get upset at the 'lack' of numbers.

I see what you are saying, and you do have a point there.  I think it works the other way too.  How many guys are there like Craig Counsel that play into their 40s that would have been out of baseball for years if they had been judged only on numbers.

Fans use those stats to judge if a move is good or not but the front office has access to a lot better information than we do. 

[MrTPlush]

On 2/14/2024 at 8:01 AM, Thurston Fluff said:

I think what they're saying is had the Brewers not used the lack of saves against him in arbitration he would have been more amendable to pitching more than one inning save situations while here.

Well that is still wrong though. Even in FA...saves make money. Josh Hader probably had a huge issue with it from Day 1, just didn't open his mouth till he had enough track record and success to have a voice. As antiquated as we want to call the closer role and the number of saves, it still is a gig the best guy is thrown into and preferred to be in. 

If Hader didn't close all this time, he likely would have gotten tens of millions less in FA. 

[Frisbee Slider]

Hader with 6.39 ERA in first month as an Astro. .444 BABIP but also allowing hard contact 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/is-josh-hader-cursed-broken-or-both/

 

[TURBO]

I have him on a fantasy team, and he has been a HUGE bust to this point.  

[Frisbee Slider]

He went multiple innings this week, now that he has a multi year contract he correctly believes the team and player now have shared risk on potential for over usage 

[Outlander]

Yeah, he has $95 million guaranteed instead of playing year to year.

[SomewhereInTime]

On 2/8/2024 at 10:10 PM, AdvantageSchneider said:

I don't think it's that cut and dried in that I assume innings pitched has some value in arbitration, just that saves are worth that much more, I assume.  

His first two full years in the league he had 81 and 75 innings pitched.  Since then he's never had more than 58.  

How much in baseball is there where a winning player does something that they don't get paid for? There used to be a lot more of it, going in hard to break up a double play.  Nobody gets paid to do that but that helped win games.  Sacrifice bunts.  Nobody does that anymore either but nobody got paid for doing that.  In the game today it's probably stuff like hitting the cut off man, taking the extra base, taking a pitch (Chuckie hacks on 2-0).  Winning players make those plays even though that doesn't increase their arby figure or their free agent contract.

That San Diego team had a boatload of talent and they didn't win jack squat.  Team leaders with attitudes like Hader, Machado and Tatis Jr might explain why they underachieved.

 

Grumpy old man rant over.

Yeah the old office employee compared to a professional athlete comparison post never really works.  Being a professional athlete means constant competition and an expectation that you will do everything possible to make yourself the best you can be and help the team win.  They are paid a high amount of money regardless.

[Frisbee Slider]

9 hours ago, SomewhereInTime said:

They are paid a high amount of money regardless.

An argument could be made that Hader is now making 5 to 10x more money by keeping himself healthy. $95 million guaranteed versus an injury that washes him out of the league or keeps him on short term deals.

 

[SomewhereInTime]

17 hours ago, Frisbee Slider said:

An argument could be made that Hader is now making 5 to 10x more money by keeping himself healthy. $95 million guaranteed versus an injury that washes him out of the league or keeps him on short term deals.

 

Someone who's already rich cares more about trying to become super rich instead of helping his team win

[SeaBass]

17 hours ago, SomewhereInTime said:

Someone who's already rich cares more about trying to become super rich instead of helping his team win

Worker cares more about their own career than their co-worker's career.

Everyone that has ever worked for a living.

[SomewhereInTime]

1 hour ago, SeaBass said:

Worker cares more about their own career than their co-worker's career.

Everyone that has ever worked for a living.

And my exact point is that comparison is dumb and doesn't apply at all to professional sports.  As a fan, I want to see things like CC Sabathia pitching complete games on two or three days rest to will the team into the postseason.  There's a win at all costs mentality that is necessary.  The Josh Hader's of the world should be traded as soon as possible and we should laugh at any team dumb enough to give them a huge contract.

[HarryDoyle]