Frelick working on second and third base with Dustin Pedroia

[bensheeps]

Got to admit... the thought of Frelick on the infield has already moved on longer than I expected.  Is there a chance at the start of the the season?

 

[RedStickBrew]

42 minutes ago, bensheeps said:

Got to admit... the thought of Frelick on the infield has already moved on longer than I expected.  Is there a chance at the start of the the season?

 

My guess is that they are seriously considering carrying three catchers to start the year and might need Frelick to play an emergency role there since it might potentially mean having one less infielder on the 26 man roster. But that’s just my guess.
 

I’m also surprised this has gone on as long as it has but it also speaks to Frelicks athleticism and being able to potentially play the infield as well. After all he is a plus defender in the outfield

[TURBO]

I don't think his bat plays at 3B though.

We have to have some degree of power in the line-up, and typically, power comes from the corners. (1B and 3B)

I can see this in a pinch, but I'm not sure it is a good solution on a regular basis.

[wallus]

My question is this: Who is our starting 3B at this point? I haven't paid close attention to Spring lineups (not that it would really matter).

If Frelick can play 3B well, that would help the outfield problem obviously.

[sveumrules]

13 minutes ago, wallus said:

My question is this: Who is our starting 3B at this point?

My guess is that the regular IF alignment to open the season will be Ortiz at 3B, Adames at SS, Turang at 2B and Rhys at 1B.

Monasterio in for Turang vs LHP at 3B with Ortiz sliding to 2B.

Black waiting in the wings at Nashville with Wilken a dark horse for later in the season.

Still think Sal is mostly getting reps at 3B just to increase his versatility and open up different lineup combos.

Maybe he ends up there like once a week which would shake out to a couple dozen games or so.

[liveforoctober]

???

[Matt]

This doesn't sound like an emergency kind of situation. 

[Matt]

3 hours ago, TURBO said:

I don't think his bat plays at 3B though.

We have to have some degree of power in the line-up, and typically, power comes from the corners. (1B and 3B)

I can see this in a pinch, but I'm not sure it is a good solution on a regular basis.

Turang's bat doesn't play anywhere, though. Getting him out of the lineup would help mitigate Sal in the infield. 

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, TURBO said:

I don't think his bat plays at 3B though.

We have to have some degree of power in the line-up, and typically, power comes from the corners. (1B and 3B)

I can see this in a pinch, but I'm not sure it is a good solution on a regular basis.

I hate this...ideology and I know I'm in the minority, but I don't care where the power comes from.

We have a catcher that can hit for power, a 1B/DH, a SS. Hopefully Yelly will continue to and our young CF prospect is projected to be a big-time power hitter. Hopefully Wiemer is also a power hitter(I don't see how he stays in MLB unless he's a power hitter).

So if Frelick is a .280/.340/.380 hitter who hits 30 doubles, steals 30 bases and can play good defense...who cares that his SLG isn't ideal for the position?

We're looking for cumulative improvements. Also, who on this roster is going to be the prototypical 3B? 

Speed, OBP skills, defense. Squeeze as much of that into the lineup as possible. They'll score runs. 

[BrewerFan]

11 minutes ago, Matt said:

Turang's bat doesn't play anywhere, though. Getting him out of the lineup would help mitigate Sal in the infield. 

We're writing the guy off because he struggled at age 23?

[Matt]

Just now, BrewerFan said:

We're writing the guy off because he struggled at age 23?

Not writing him off, but I'm not optimistic about his future as a regular. If Sal's a legit option on the infield I'd rather have him in there than Turang.

[BrewerFan]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

Not writing him off, but I'm not optimistic about his future as a regular. If Sal's a legit option on the infield I'd rather have him in there than Turang.

I'm still optimistic. I hope he's a little more aggressive this year as his ABs were so ridiculously defensive last year...but I still think he can hit more than enough to play SS, especially with his defense(or 2B). 

But he can earn his ABs this year.

[wallus]

1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

My guess is that the regular IF alignment to open the season will be Ortiz at 3B, Adames at SS, Turang at 2B and Rhys at 1B.

Monasterio in for Turang vs LHP at 3B with Ortiz sliding to 2B.

Black waiting in the wings at Nashville with Wilken a dark horse for later in the season.

Still think Sal is mostly getting reps at 3B just to increase his versatility and open up different lineup combos.

Maybe he ends up there like once a week which would shake out to a couple dozen games or so.

My apologies but has Ortiz played any third base this spring? My casual checking of the box scores has not seen it.

[RedStickBrew]

22 minutes ago, Matt said:

This doesn't sound like an emergency kind of situation. 

I’m not sure how to interpret his remarks but it seems as if Frelick were in the plans to get a lot of time at third this year he would be playing there a lot more this spring than he has

[brewerfan82]

21 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

I’m not sure how to interpret his remarks but it seems as if Frelick were in the plans to get a lot of time at third this year he would be playing there a lot more this spring than he has

Well he's split his time between 3B and RF evenly so far this Spring with 31 innings at each spot.

[RedStickBrew]

8 minutes ago, brewerfan82 said:

Well he's split his time between 3B and RF evenly so far this Spring with 31 innings at each spot.

Right, but he has not played infield since high school. It appears the Brewers are serious about him playing infield. I just don’t believe it means he will play there extensively. We will see

[BrewerFan]

45 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

Right, but he has not played infield since high school. It appears the Brewers are serious about him playing infield. I just don’t believe it means he will play there extensively. We will see

It would strike me as a bit odd for the manager to talk about it being one of the best stories in baseball only to see him play there in emergency situations...

[Fear The Chorizo]

31 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

It would strike me as a bit odd for the manager to talk about it being one of the best stories in baseball only to see him play there in emergency situations...

It strikes me as a bit odd the manager considers a guy realizing it's time to learn a new position if he wants to play everyday with the organization that just gave a longterm contract to a 20 yr old phenom to play CF as being one of the best stories in baseball.  I think it's spring training speak that will die down after frelick or adames gets traded and the apparent positional logjam sorts itself out with all these young guys.

Even if it doesn't, Frelick at 3rd at its best for him is being a placeholder until either Wilken or Black are in Milwaukee for good.

[Matt]

28 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

It strikes me as a bit odd the manager considers a guy realizing it's time to learn a new position if he wants to play everyday with the organization that just gave a longterm contract to a 20 yr old phenom to play CF as being one of the best stories in baseball.  I think it's spring training speak that will die down after frelick or adames gets traded and the apparent positional logjam sorts itself out with all these young guys.

Even if it doesn't, Frelick at 3rd at its best for him is being a placeholder until either Wilken or Black are in Milwaukee for good.

I think it's just Wilken. Black is probably a reason they're trying out Frelick at 3rd in the first place. They know he isn't the answer there this season. Just my guess.

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

It strikes me as a bit odd the manager considers a guy realizing it's time to learn a new position if he wants to play everyday with the organization that just gave a longterm contract to a 20 yr old phenom to play CF as being one of the best stories in baseball.

If that's what happened, then I might be with you. It's not.

When the BREWERS approach Frelick(so not the other way around), one of the top 20-30 prospects in the game when promoted last year and ask him to try 3B/2B to see if he can handle it, THEN after watching him play there, the manager says that it'll be one of the biggest stories in baseball, that seems like a bit more than coach speak. 

This wasn't Frelick "realizing it's time to learn a new position," this was the Brewers. And again, he's played the IF in the not relatively recent past. 

Feels like we're forgetting Frelick was the top prospect in that logjam other than Chourio. He's arguably made the biggest impact in the shortest amount of time with a WAR of ~4.0(adjusted for a full-season).  

1 hour ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I think it's spring training speak that will die down after frelick or adames gets traded and the apparent positional logjam sorts itself out with all these young guys.

Well...that shouldn't have any impact on Frelick if they're not actually planning on playing him there.

2 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Even if it doesn't, Frelick at 3rd at its best for him is being a placeholder until either Wilken or Black are in Milwaukee for good.

Ok...maybe. If Wilken, who has a handful of games in AA can handle 3rd or if Black can(and is a better player than Frelick, which...seems like a complete guess at this point). 

But sure, he doesn't have to be a 3B for the next decade for this to be a big story this year. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

6 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

If that's what happened, then I might be with you. It's not.

When the BREWERS approach Frelick(so not the other way around), one of the top 20-30 prospects in the game when promoted last year and ask him to try 3B/2B to see if he can handle it, THEN after watching him play there, the manager says that it'll be one of the biggest stories in baseball, that seems like a bit more than coach speak. 

This wasn't Frelick "realizing it's time to learn a new position," this was the Brewers. And again, he's played the IF in the not relatively recent past. 

Feels like we're forgetting Frelick was the top prospect in that logjam other than Chourio. He's arguably made the biggest impact in the shortest amount of time with a WAR of ~4.0(adjusted for a full-season).  

Well...that shouldn't have any impact on Frelick if they're not actually planning on playing him there.

Ok...maybe. If Wilken, who has a handful of games in AA can handle 3rd or if Black can(and is a better player than Frelick, which...seems like a complete guess at this point). 

But sure, he doesn't have to be a 3B for the next decade for this to be a big story this year. 

The BREWERS approaching him in the offseason is the equivalent of Frelick realizing he needs to learn a new position - if he pushed back on that when approached, I'm pretty sure he knows what the outcome of that would have likely been.

 

Frelick so far has proven to be a sub-0.700 OPS player at the mlb level - I'm rooting for this to be successful, and for Frelick to develop into a really good MLB player...but I'm firmly in the camp of wishing he'd be forcing his way onto the field at random defensive positions because his bat absolutely needs to be be in the lineup everyday first, rather than this current approach of "well, we don't really have an everyday 3B currently on the 40 man roster and we don't have room to add new prospects onto it at this point, let's see if one of our young OFers with the least amount of power in his swing can be passable over there against a righty starter and then may also prove to be a good enough hitter to warrant this type of experiment"

[BrewerFan]

9 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

The BREWERS approaching him in the offseason is the equivalent of Frelick realizing he needs to learn a new position - if he pushed back on that when approached, I'm pretty sure he knows what the outcome of that would have likely been.

I think the outcome would have been...nothing. We'd have heard nothing about it. It probably wouldn't have leaked. 

9 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Frelick so far has proven to be a sub-0.700 OPS player at the mlb level - I'm rooting for this to be successful, and for Frelick to develop into a really good MLB player...but I'm firmly in the camp of wishing he'd be forcing his way onto the field at random defensive positions because his bat absolutely needs to be be in the lineup everyday first, rather than this current approach of "well, we don't really have an everyday 3B currently on the 40 man roster and we don't have room to add new prospects onto it at this point, let's see if one of our young OFers with the least amount of power in his swing can be passable over there against a righty starter and then may also prove to be a good enough hitter to warrant this type of experiment"

Yeah...I remember that quote. 

And yup. Can't think of one guy who can play 3rd base. Ortiz definitely can't. Oliver Dunn, never seen 3B in his life, Owen Miller... Black is likely just never going to get called up because...I don't know, something. There's a reason, I'll make it up and put it into quotes later. 

They just moved Frelick there on a whim several months ago because they couldn't be bothered to put a 3B on the roster🙄

 

The one thing I'm missing here. How does this end then with trading Willy Adames? Since the Brewers shrugged and said, 'well, guess you'll have to play 3rd' out of nowhere, how does trading the SS mean Frelick WON'T play 3B?

[KeithStone53151]

17 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

The BREWERS approaching him in the offseason is the equivalent of Frelick realizing he needs to learn a new position - if he pushed back on that when approached, I'm pretty sure he knows what the outcome of that would have likely been.

 

Frelick so far has proven to be a sub-0.700 OPS player at the mlb level - I'm rooting for this to be successful, and for Frelick to develop into a really good MLB player...but I'm firmly in the camp of wishing he'd be forcing his way onto the field at random defensive positions because his bat absolutely needs to be be in the lineup everyday first, rather than this current approach of "well, we don't really have an everyday 3B currently on the 40 man roster and we don't have room to add new prospects onto it at this point, let's see if one of our young OFers with the least amount of power in his swing can be passable over there against a righty starter and then may also prove to be a good enough hitter to warrant this type of experiment"

You're depiction of frelick does not even remotely do justice to the player he is currently, or the upside he has. What's he at like 300 MLB at bats? It's pretty widely accepted that young players that were once highly regarded prospects are very valuable and likely to improve with experience/reps. Having him force his way into the roster by further destroying AAA and/or doing just a wonderful job of sitting on the bench is just so bad. It's a disservice to the player and to the team in the long term. Having him try infield to see if he can handle it is a much better idea and a better effort at problem solving than what you've described.

[Fear The Chorizo]

8 hours ago, KeithStone53151 said:

You're depiction of frelick does not even remotely do justice to the player he is currently, or the upside he has. What's he at like 300 MLB at bats? It's pretty widely accepted that young players that were once highly regarded prospects are very valuable and likely to improve with experience/reps. Having him force his way into the roster by further destroying AAA and/or doing just a wonderful job of sitting on the bench is just so bad. It's a disservice to the player and to the team in the long term. Having him try infield to see if he can handle it is a much better idea and a better effort at problem solving than what you've described.

A certain 1st round pick with a hitterish pedigree as a collegiate prospect hit 0.303 with a mid-900s OPS in his first 348 MLB plate appearances, after which the Brewers started trying to find ways to keep his bat in the lineup by shifting him to other defensive positions because they didn't yet have the DH to use.  Now he's trying to find a way to hang onto his MLB career in the Detroit Tigers spring camp. 

I am hopeful Frelick does keep developing and proves to be a young player with some positional versatility and offensive upside to justify trying to turn him into a utility player.  Personally, I think his best value to the Brewers for the longterm may be as trade bait between now and the start of next season while that upside and years of team control are still the first thing teams look at, particularly when the position Frelick is most likely to have the most player value (CF) is blocked for him by both a younger and more talented player the Brewers just committed to longterm (Chourio), and a better defender with more power potential (Mitchell).  I'm excluding Wiemer, who is also a better defender but profiles as a corner OFer much more easily than Frelick.

 

[KeithStone53151]

28 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

A certain 1st round pick with a hitterish pedigree as a collegiate prospect hit 0.303 with a mid-900s OPS in his first 348 MLB plate appearances, after which the Brewers started trying to find ways to keep his bat in the lineup by shifting him to other defensive positions because they didn't yet have the DH to use.  Now he's trying to find a way to hang onto his MLB career in the Detroit Tigers spring camp. 

I am hopeful Frelick does keep developing and proves to be a young player with some positional versatility and offensive upside to justify trying to turn him into a utility player.  Personally, I think his best value to the Brewers for the longterm may be as trade bait between now and the start of next season while that upside and years of team control are still the first thing teams look at, particularly when the position Frelick is most likely to have the most player value (CF) is blocked for him by both a younger and more talented player the Brewers just committed to longterm (Chourio), and a better defender with more power potential (Mitchell).  I'm excluding Wiemer, who is also a better defender but profiles as a corner OFer much more easily than Frelick.

 

One 1st round pick failed, quite a few others are established MLB regulars or better. That's a poor argument as well. I think the Brewers are trying to get their best players on the field, and they probably think he has the ability to play infield moreso than the other options. I have concerns about putting focus on a new position if it impacts the time he spends on improving on hitting, it's hard to know the impact right now. Frelick may very well go full Corbin Burnes and put immense effort into this offseason to both learn a new position AND improve at hitting.

I'm also generally not worried about Frelick blocking Tyler Black or Wilken or Wiemer or anyone else. By the time either guy is ready, someone in the outfield or 2b/3b will be hurt or hitting like crap. These things tend to sort themselves out.