Ohtani controversy

[wiguy94]

1 hour ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Ohtani has been playing stateside for SEVEN years now - it's not like he's still kicking off the jet lag and waiting for the rest of his things to arrive in the mail to unpack like it's spring 2018 and doesn't know anyone else.  I can see needing some assistance initially getting settled in the US from a trusted friend and assistant you've known 5-6 years prior to that point, but eventually when you realize the dollars flying in the door probably exceed the financial expertise of your interpreter you'd think it might be a good idea to set things up a bit more ironclad than what is being made out to have been the case.  That is, unless the story isn't being completely truthful.

To me, it's still alot more believable that Mizuhara was Ohatani's middle man when it came to making bets on the scope and scale that appeared to have occurred, and they were smart enough to not text each other about it largely because they're practically inseparable and could just as easily talk about making bets, money transfers, etc. using the account Mizuhara had ready access to.  Once they realized the entity/bookie they were using was under investigation by the Feds, suddenly it was time to craft this story.  Ohtani simply doesn't come off to me as a doe-eyed, gullible, victim who's clueless to what's going on around him financially.   

[Frisbee Slider]

It seems like more of a conspiracy to say ‘nothing to see here’ than a skepticism that there probably is information not being reported.  

[Frisbee Slider]

Certainly, athletes can squander money or be victimized.

Conceivably, Ohtani is singularly focused on baseball and lacks financial acumen.

Objectively, the speed of this investigation is unusual.

Questionably, Ohtani never gave Mizuhara control of his accounts, per affidavit. Next sentence, Ohtani tacitly allowed Mizuhara total veto power of visibility to his accounts. 🤷‍♂️

Ohtani’s salary was deposited in that account, though he never gave Mizuhara -- whom Estrada said was “acting as Mr. Ohtani’s de facto manager” -- control over any of his financial accounts, according to the affidavit.

“Mizuhara refused to give access to the account to the rest of Ohtani’s other professional advisors including his agent, accountant and financial advisor, telling them Ohtani wanted to keep that account private,” Estrada said.

https://www.mlb.com/news/ippei-mizuhara-charged-with-bank-fraud-in-criminal-complaint

[tmwiese55]

I'm still of the view that best guess is the interpreter put him in a very bad spot.  I just can't see someone who has been so focused on his image/legend/reputation being this dumb to be doing something like this that he knows would ruin everything for him. Sure degen gamblers do dumb stuff so its possible but I just can't imagine he'd be this dumb to risk it all for a 10K bets when he's gonna make over a billion dollars the next 10 years

But main thing I'm adding to some of the comments here in terms of mocking him or saying how dumb he is to trust his interpreter etc and how he should have financial guys etc.   Really, the person he should have been able to trust the most is this guy, a guy he's known for years and years before he was rich.  The leaches trying to prey on his wealth now should be the ones hes skeptical on, not someone he thought was his best friend.  Also, everyone here realizes countless athletes/celebs have been robbed blind by their supposed financial/management people right?   Its not crazy at all that he'd trust his supposed best friend over strangers. 

Still, I'm guessing there's a lot to still come out and we should just wait back and see.

[StearnsFTW]

If you believe this wasn't Ohtani gambling, I've got a bridge for sale.

[Underachiever]

18 minutes ago, StearnsFTW said:

If you believe this wasn't Ohtani gambling, I've got a bridge for sale.

Skeptical. Lemme see the bridge first. 

[homer]

I am skeptical Ohtani knew nothing. I am also skeptical the government would care enough to cover it up unless Shohei is a psy-op. MLB on the other hand? Absolutely.

[wiguy94]

Have the conspiracy theorists in here actually bothered to read the 37 page criminal complaint?

[Frisbee Slider]

https://embed.documentcloud.org/documents/24543601-ohtani-interpreter-im-criminal-complaint-1

[TURBO]

2 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Have the conspiracy theorists in here actually bothered to read the 37 page criminal complaint?

Have you?

[wiguy94]

3 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Have you?

Yes and I struggle to think how people are still choosing to believer conspiracy theories, but conspiracy theorists have never been the most rational.

[Fear The Chorizo]

2 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Have the conspiracy theorists in here actually bothered to read the 37 page criminal complaint?

yeah...most of it is a string of texts between the bookie and Mizuhara related to fronting money/delayed repayments/and once it was within the timeline of the fed investigation into the bookie it was the rush to get wires processed from Ohtani's account.

The last text exchange listed in the complaint reads a ton like a haphazard effort by the bookie to get Mizuhara to confirm this is a 'cover job'....the "technically I did steal from him. it's all over for me" response from Mizuhara is a nothingburger.

also, real shocker that Mizuhara refused to allow the finance managers and Ohtani's agent access to the account being used to pull funds for sports betting on illegal sites from, and Ohtani is claiming to be unaware of that fact.  The fact Ohtani had other accounts being managed by those groups and not the one he was being paid his MLB salaries into, and somehow Ohtani wasn't aware of that fact makes zero sense.  Google translate has been around quite awhile, it's not like his agent can't at any point ask Ohtani in some form why he won't let them have access to that bank account at any point over the 6-7 MLB seasons he had it without having to run it through Mizuhara.

[wiguy94]

Just now, Fear The Chorizo said:

yeah...most of it is a string of texts between the bookie and Mizuhara related to fronting money/delayed repayments/and once it was within the timeline of the fed investigation into the bookie it was the rush to get wires processed from Ohtani's account.

The last text exchange listed in the complaint reads a ton like a haphazard effort by the bookie to get Mizuhara to confirm this is a 'cover job'....the "technically I did steal from him. it's all over for me" response from Mizuhara is a nothingburger.

also, real shocker that Mizuhara refused to allow the finance managers and Ohtani's agent access to the account being used to pull funds for sports betting on illegal sites from, and Ohtani is claiming to be unaware of that fact.  The fact Ohtani had other accounts being managed by those groups and not the one he was being paid his MLB salaries into, and somehow Ohtani wasn't aware of that fact makes zero sense.  Google translate has been around quite awhile, it's not like his agent can't at any point ask Ohtani in some form why he won't let them have access to that bank account at any point over the 6-7 MLB seasons he had it without having to run it through Mizuhara.

Like I said irrational people will think irrationally.

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

Like I said irrational people will think irrationally.

just tell me what I wrote above that's wrong in your opinion - we're obviously not going to agree on this and that's fine.

[homer]

I don't think it's beyond the pale to wonder if there's something fishy going on. The amount of money just seems too absurd to believe a translator would be doing that by himself. By the same token. it's certainly not a foregone conclusion there is anything fishy going on and I think some people will believe that's the case no matter what evidence is presented.

[TURBO]

23 minutes ago, homer said:

I don't think it's beyond the pale to wonder if there's something fishy going on. The amount of money just seems too absurd to believe a translator would be doing that by himself. By the same token. it's certainly not a foregone conclusion there is anything fishy going on and I think some people will believe that's the case no matter what evidence is presented.

Maybe so, but I hope he truly is innocent.  

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, wiguy94 said:

Like I said irrational people will think irrationally.

Not sure why you are allowed to call people names, but you have to realize that other people are allowed to have different opinions than yours, right?

[young guns]

4 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Google translate has been around quite awhile, it's not like his agent can't at any point ask Ohtani in some form why he won't let them have access to that bank account at any point over the 6-7 MLB seasons he had it without having to run it through Mizuhara.

I could imagine a scenario early on where they are setting things up and the money people ask about that account, but mizuhara translates a made up different question and reaponds Ohtani wants it private or whatever and all parties are none the wiser.  Ohtani thinks all of his finances are taken care of, money people have an answer even if they might think it's foolish, but respect their clients presumed wishes, and mizuhara now has unfettered access to this account.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I'm a CPA so professionally I have an elevated interested in these kinds of stories.  Based on all the stories I've read over many years I would believe that all of this was done without Ohtani knowing. I can give you a fairly recent example, Dane Cook had $12M embezzled from him by his brother and sister in law.

https://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/celebrity.news.gossip/12/06/dane.cook.restitution/index.html

I can tell you in my own relationship with my wife, I handle the finances.  If I wanted to "embezzle" from the family funds I most certainly could do so and she would never know about it.  How many marriages do you think are like that?  Lots of people trust their friends and family with their  money, but they really shouldn't.  Trust but verify. 

[AdvantageSchneider]

On 4/11/2024 at 7:01 PM, Fear The Chorizo said:

For starters, $$$$$$$$, much of it funneled in some way/shape or form through the most populous and tax-heavy state in the country.  Ohtani is essentially a larger-than-life, too big to fail entity in terms of celebrity status that also transcends international borders.

You really think the govmint would be just fine with the blowback they'd receive by coercing a smoking gun amount of proof out of someone tied to this mess that would effectively send Ohtani back to Japan?  Based on how the Feds typically operate during these investigations, I'm certain you can't be that naive.  

 

Two things.

1)  This isn't some hour long long TV show where 5 characters investigate and prosecute an entire case.  Undoubtedly tens if not hundreds of people were involved in this case.  It is ridiculous to think that all of them would keep evidence regarding Ohtani's gambling a secret.

2)  The annual US gross domestic product is $25.44 trillion.  Do you really think anyone in the federal government gives a darn about some baseball player making $68M a year?  The tax on that salary isn't even a rounding error in the federal government's budget.  The conspiracy theory that the federal government is covering up Ohtani's gambling gives the flat earth conspiracy a run for stupidest conspiracy theory I've ever heard.

 

[jerichoholicninja]

Has there been any evidence Sho was tanking games? If not, I still don't care about this.

[Fear The Chorizo]

On 4/12/2024 at 11:38 PM, AdvantageSchneider said:

 

Two things.

1)  This isn't some hour long long TV show where 5 characters investigate and prosecute an entire case.  Undoubtedly tens if not hundreds of people were involved in this case.  It is ridiculous to think that all of them would keep evidence regarding Ohtani's gambling a secret.

2)  The annual US gross domestic product is $25.44 trillion.  Do you really think anyone in the federal government gives a darn about some baseball player making $68M a year?  The tax on that salary isn't even a rounding error in the federal government's budget.  The conspiracy theory that the federal government is covering up Ohtani's gambling gives the flat earth conspiracy a run for stupidest conspiracy theory I've ever heard.

 

If you think I was referring to ohtanis baseball salary when I referred to $$$$$$ above, I don't know what else to say.

How much taxable revenue/commerce do you think having Ohtani in MLB brings stateside from international sources in Asia?  Ohtani is beyond a star overseas in other baseball-loving countries across the pacific ocean. 

Bookies, even shady illegal ones, aren't dumb - they know where the funds are coming from with clients who they allow to rack up sizeable debts.  A mlb interpreter's annual salary is far from sufficient collateral for a bookie to give someone an unlimited line of credit to keep making bets.

[Fear The Chorizo]

On 4/12/2024 at 11:30 PM, AdvantageSchneider said:

I'm a CPA so professionally I have an elevated interested in these kinds of stories.  Based on all the stories I've read over many years I would believe that all of this was done without Ohtani knowing. I can give you a fairly recent example, Dane Cook had $12M embezzled from him by his brother and sister in law.

https://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/celebrity.news.gossip/12/06/dane.cook.restitution/index.html

I can tell you in my own relationship with my wife, I handle the finances.  If I wanted to "embezzle" from the family funds I most certainly could do so and she would never know about it.  How many marriages do you think are like that?  Lots of people trust their friends and family with their  money, but they really shouldn't.  Trust but verify. 

As a CPA, wouldn't it seem odd come tax time every year that Ohtani's bank account that would have been receiving mlb salary paychecks wasn't accessible to his financial people that had ready access to his other accounts, but his interpreter could?  No concerns about potential audit risk or financial security down the road for a global celebrity with international endorsement deals earning a mlb paycheck in a high tax blue state who was set to become a billionaire several times over?

Then again, the way this story is being told I'm sure it will come out that Ohtani entrusted Mizuhara with doing his taxes.  After all, he was already keeping his books.

[MrTPlush]

7 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

As a CPA, wouldn't it seem odd come tax time every year that Ohtani's bank account that would have been receiving mlb salary paychecks wasn't accessible to his financial people that had ready access to his other accounts, but his interpreter could?  No concerns about potential audit risk or financial security down the road for a global celebrity with international endorsement deals earning a mlb paycheck in a high tax blue state who was set to become a billionaire several times over?

Then again, the way this story is being told I'm sure it will come out that Ohtani entrusted Mizuhara with doing his taxes.  After all, he was already keeping his books.

Do they look at your bank account when doing your taxes? I mean, I don't think they do for us normal people (TurboTax surely doesn't)...but maybe it is different for people with insane assets and foreign citizen.

Even if he has someone else who looked at his account or saw it for whatever financial reason, there is one very important quality the person must have to see something like this: They actually have to care. As someone with a job that can occasionally come across and deal with levels of fraud, if the person looking doesn't care, nothing will be found. There was one case where a business owner owed money to 'employees'. In simplistic terms the business owner wrote the checks and then proceeded to sign them right back over to himself forging the signatures. Then the entire stack of checks went to bank together to get cashed into his account. Any bank employee with a sliver of care would have saw not only a bunch of checks with the same handwriting/ink, but also the fact it made no sense for two dozen people to all sign over checks to him over and over again. 

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

3 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

Do they look at your bank account when doing your taxes? I mean, I don't think they do for us normal people (TurboTax surely doesn't)...but maybe it is different for people with insane assets and foreign citizen.

Even if he has someone else who looked at his account or saw it for whatever financial reason, there is one very important quality the person must have to see something like this: They actually have to care. As someone with a job that can occasionally come across and deal with levels of fraud, if the person looking doesn't care, nothing will be found. There was one case where a business owner owed money to 'employees'. In simplistic terms the business owner wrote the checks and then proceeded to sign them right back over to himself forging the signatures. Then the entire stack of checks went to bank together to get cashed into his account. Any bank employee with a sliver of care would have saw not only a bunch of checks with the same handwriting/ink, but also the fact it made no sense for two dozen people to all sign over checks to him over and over again. 

 

Understood - when it comes to the level of income in Ohtani's stratosphere where expenditures are typically combed over to identify deductions/writeoffs, and the level of complexity having to file state returns in any state he played in each year that would be tied to this account, you'd think more than Ohtani and Mizuhara would have access to it for tax purposes.  Willful ignorance could obviously be at play by others involved in Ohtani's circle...but frankly that seems to be way too common surrounding this century's version of Babe Ruth to be 100% truth. 

And if this story currently out there is truly all there is to it, why would Mizuhara have any incentive to not bet on anything baseball-related?  tens of thousands of wagers on seemingly everything but baseball (MLB, international, anywhere).  Very interesting how quickly that was common knowledge, that he didn't place any bets on baseball.  If he was that much of a degenerate where he was robbing his best friend and primary translating client blind to pay off his own exploding gambling debt while making endless sports bets, I don't see him as the type of character to then avoid placing any bets on baseball based on the ethics of breaking the cardinal rule for MLB players because he was secretly stealing the funds from Ohtani's account.

I'll add to this general discussion that I actually don't care much at all about Mizuhara/Ohtani making non-baseball sports bets, even while living in a state where that is still currently illegal - it's the way this cover-up attempt has unfolded that instantly went from Ohtani trying to help his friend out with a series of wire transfers to pay off gambling debt during the same time the fed investigation into this bookie implicated Ohtani's account, to "he was robbed" right after Mizuhara's ESPN interview and after attorneys got a more complete look at the financial paper trail that sticks in my craw.  I know others disagree and that's fine.