Ohtani controversy

[mtsportsfan]

On 3/22/2024 at 5:34 PM, homer said:

Late Friday news dump LOL

Very skeptical of MLB investigating the face of baseball right now. Not saying Ohtani  is guilty of anything,  but I'm sure if he was MLB won't find anything. 

[Playing Catch]

2 hours ago, mtsportsfan said:

Very skeptical of MLB investigating the face of baseball right now. Not saying Ohtani  is guilty of anything,  but I'm sure if he was MLB won't find anything. 

I mean, the IRS is investigating. What could MLB possibly uncover, that the IRS couldn't?

Why not just wait for the IRS to lay down charges?

[Underachiever]

10 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

I mean, the IRS is investigating. What could MLB possibly uncover, that the IRS couldn't?

Why not just wait for the IRS to lay down charges?

A lot less burden of proof in MLB investigation. The "Best Interests of Baseball" clause can allow them to get in front of it and perhaps control the spin of things. MLB has a lot at stake, so they probably don't want to be blindsided by whatever comes down.

[markedman5]

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

3 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

 

Rusty Hardin's email must've had an out of office reply...sheesh

[homer]

[owbc]

34 minutes ago, homer said:

This is a pretty nice summary (from /r/baseball on reddit):

The prosecutors presented the evidence they have against Mizuhara:

Ippei set up Ohtani's bank account for him since his arrival to the US. Ippei was the one responsible for making all purchases for Shohei to help him get settled in the country. Within a few years, Mizuhara changed the settings on Ohtani's account and linked it to his phone. He has had full access to Ohtani's accounts since that time.

Prosecutors have forensic computer evidence in the form of IP addresses and location data that show all transfers and bets came from Ippei's house and devices.

-Prosecutors have multiple call recordings with Ippei and the bank where Mizuhara is pretending to be Ohtani and is authorizing large wire transfers

-Prosecutors confiscated both Ohtani and Ippei's phones. They read every txt message and communication sent between the two over 7 years. There were zero instances where betting or wiring money ever came up. There are thousands of messages between Ippei and the bookmaker, including texts where Ippei admits to stealing from Shohei

-All of the gambling winnings that Ippei made were transferred into his own bank account and not Ohtanis

-The bookmaker has admitted to prosecutors under oath that he knew Ohtani was not a client and that Ippei admitted the truth to him.

-Ippei didn't just steal money for gambling but for multiple other leisure purchases, including over 325k to buy baseball cards on ebay

-Prosecutors have every bet slip that was made with the bookmaker. They number in the tens of thousands. Ippei did not make any bets on baseball. Ohtani did not make any bets at all nor was he aware of Ippei's betting.

[TURBO]

I'm sure this "investigation" had a lot of top MLB people, lawyers, etc, doing their best to make sure this doesn't fall negatively on Ohtani in any way.  I doubt we'll ever know the real story, but imo, this has been spun and fixed up to the best of their ability.  From the get go, I think the outcome was predetermined, it was just a matter of how they were going to spin it and reach that outcome.

No way MLB was going to take a hit like this, so it has been fixed up and sold to the public.  I wonder what the interpreter got out of this financially and what kind of reduced sentence he was guaranteed for helping the outcome?

I am not saying that my opinion is fact, but this entire thing is fishy.

[jsg]

22 minutes ago, TURBO said:

I'm sure this "investigation" had a lot of top MLB people, lawyers, etc, doing their best to make sure this doesn't fall negatively on Ohtani in any way.  I doubt we'll ever know the real story, but imo, this has been spun and fixed up to the best of their ability.  From the get go, I think the outcome was predetermined, it was just a matter of how they were going to spin it and reach that outcome.

No way MLB was going to take a hit like this, so it has been fixed up and sold to the public.  I wonder what the interpreter got out of this financially and what kind of reduced sentence he was guaranteed for helping the outcome?

I am not saying that my opinion is fact, but this entire thing is fishy.

 

[MrTPlush]

So I guess Ohtani doesn't have a manager or anyone that does his finances for him? I can see where Ohtani could be blind and an idiot to not notice money stolen from him. However, how would an accountant etc. not notice that? Seems it would be obvious. 

It doesn't explain the ability to bet such stupid amounts of money. These illegal bookies aren't going to let me start raining down $13k bets.

NEVER on baseball? What was he even betting on. The fact he NEVER bet on baseball seems mind boggling as he was around it nearly daily. 

If Ohtani is innocent, jeez, someone in the Dodgers FO give that guy some financial help...this really should not happen.

[sveumrules]

28 minutes ago, TURBO said:

I'm sure this "investigation" had a lot of top MLB people, lawyers, etc, doing their best to make sure this doesn't fall negatively on Ohtani in any way.

From what I understand this information is coming from the investigation conducted by the Federal Government independent of MLB's investigation.

What motivation does the Federal Government have to protect Ohtani?

[Fear The Chorizo]

Shocked that any gambling winnings were never directly transferred back to ohtani...and that all transfers from ohtanis account weren't made directly by him.  Just so totally surprised by that...

 

And no direct texts about gambling were ever exchanged.  Ironclad proof that ohtani isn't at all implicated since they never were around each other directly.

 

Oh wait...

[SeaBass]

1 minute ago, sveumrules said:

From what I understand this information is coming from the investigation conducted by the Federal Government independent of MLB's investigation.

What motivation does the Federal Government have to protect Ohtani?

[MrTPlush]

Was the bookie letting him bet with money he didn't have? Because if he lost $40mil and only stole $16mil from Ohtani...where did the other $24mil of gambling money he lost come from? That is perplexing. Usually with illegal bookies or bookies based in other countries you are lucky to use your own cold hard cash and get payouts....let alone try to gamble and win with money they don't even have in their possession yet. 

Did waving $4mil in front of their faces just make the bookie trust he was some mega rich gambling addict and sign off? Did they know he was stealing Ohtani's money and trusted he would steal whatever losses he incurred?

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

4 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Was the bookie letting him bet with money he didn't have? Because if he lost $40mil and only stole $16mil from Ohtani...where did the other $24mil of gambling money he lost come from? That is perplexing. Usually with illegal bookies or bookies based in other countries you are lucky to use your own cold hard cash and get payouts....let alone try to gamble and win with money they don't even have in their possession yet. 

Did waving $4mil in front of their faces just make the bookie trust he was some mega rich gambling addict and sign off? Did they know he was stealing Ohtani's money and trusted he would steal whatever losses he incurred?

 

Yep....exactly.

 

If people want to believe Ohtani had nothing to do with this, there's enough cover in the results of this investigation for them to cling to.  Then the best case scenario is Ohtani is a complete buffoon when it comes to taking care of his personal finances.

 

Reality is this newish information really means zilch in terms clearing ohtani, and as long as his buddy keeps his mouth shut it won't matter

[SeaBass]

4 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Was the bookie letting him bet with money he didn't have? Because if he lost $40mil and only stole $16mil from Ohtani...where did the other $24mil of gambling money he lost come from? That is perplexing. Usually with illegal bookies or bookies based in other countries you are lucky to use your own cold hard cash and get payouts....let alone try to gamble and win with money they don't even have in their possession yet. 

Did waving $4mil in front of their faces just make the bookie trust he was some mega rich gambling addict and sign off? Did they know he was stealing Ohtani's money and trusted he would steal whatever losses he incurred?

 

It feels easy to assume that once Mizuhara went into debt any winning bets he placed were never actually paid out, they were just applied to debt. The bookie knew he was connected to Ohtani, knew he had access to his accounts and I'm sure had zero issue with wherever the money was coming from as long as payments towards debts were coming in.

It would not be surprising to me at all if the bookie came out ahead on all their transactions despite reported "losses" in the millions.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

41 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

From what I understand this information is coming from the investigation conducted by the Federal Government independent of MLB's investigation.

What motivation does the Federal Government have to protect Ohtani?

Gambling doesn't melt steel beams

[owbc]

We'll know something fishy is up when Ohtani decides to retire from baseball and play basketball for the LA Clippers. 

[MrTPlush]

1 hour ago, SeaBass said:

It feels easy to assume that once Mizuhara went into debt any winning bets he placed were never actually paid out, they were just applied to debt. The bookie knew he was connected to Ohtani, knew he had access to his accounts and I'm sure had zero issue with wherever the money was coming from as long as payments towards debts were coming in.

It would not be surprising to me at all if the bookie came out ahead on all their transactions despite reported "losses" in the millions.

Yah, I did see something where they were fronting him money and they know they “didn’t have to worry about him not paying”.

Seems like an unreal gap, but I guess with an illegal bookie, they probably weren’t looking at losses though. Once he got that deep in the hole, they knew they would never had to pay him and he would always be guilted to pay them. Guessing if he would have been the one up millions the bookie would have just said “oh sorry, no money for you” like they usually do.

[Frisbee Slider]

2 hours ago, sveumrules said:

What motivation does the Federal Government have to protect Ohtani?

MLB almost certainly has lobbyists.

[Fear The Chorizo]

4 hours ago, sveumrules said:

From what I understand this information is coming from the investigation conducted by the Federal Government independent of MLB's investigation.

What motivation does the Federal Government have to protect Ohtani?

For starters, $$$$$$$$, much of it funneled in some way/shape or form through the most populous and tax-heavy state in the country.  Ohtani is essentially a larger-than-life, too big to fail entity in terms of celebrity status that also transcends international borders.

You really think the govmint would be just fine with the blowback they'd receive by coercing a smoking gun amount of proof out of someone tied to this mess that would effectively send Ohtani back to Japan?  Based on how the Feds typically operate during these investigations, I'm certain you can't be that naive.  

[TURBO]

4 hours ago, sveumrules said:

From what I understand this information is coming from the investigation conducted by the Federal Government independent of MLB's investigation.

What motivation does the Federal Government have to protect Ohtani?

 

4 hours ago, sveumrules said:

 

 

I no longer have blind faith in our government. 

I'm sure there is a lot more to this story than we will ever know, and to think there isn't some angle for the government to make sure he is not found guilty of anything might be a bit naïve.  

Either that, or Ohtani truly is an absolute idiot for giving full access to millions upon millions of dollars to his interpreter.  That to me is less believeable.

[wiguy94]

[Matt]

 

1 hour ago, TURBO said:

 

 

I no longer have blind faith in our government. 

I'm sure there is a lot more to this story than we will ever know, and to think there isn't some angle for the government to make sure he is not found guilty of anything might be a bit naïve.  

Either that, or Ohtani truly is an absolute idiot for giving full access to millions upon millions of dollars to his interpreter.  That to me is less believeable.

Ohtani isn't an idiot. He's someone who trusted his interpreter, a guy he's known for 20 years. 

I listened to Tim Kurkjian give an interview a couple weeks ago. These interpreters have only slightly less than power of attorney over their athletes when these guys come to the US. Tim mentioned how yes, they would even do things like set up bank accounts for players. 

It's incredibly easy to see how this could be pulled off without a player ever realizing it. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

 

Ohtani isn't an idiot. He's someone who trusted his interpreter, a guy he's known for 20 years. 

I listened to Tim Kurkjian give an interview a couple weeks ago. These interpreters have only slightly less than power of attorney over their athletes when these guys come to the US. Tim mentioned how yes, they would even do things like set up bank accounts for players. 

It's incredibly easy to see how this could be pulled off without a player ever realizing it. 

Ohtani has been playing stateside for SEVEN years now - it's not like he's still kicking off the jet lag and waiting for the rest of his things to arrive in the mail to unpack like it's spring 2018 and doesn't know anyone else.  I can see needing some assistance initially getting settled in the US from a trusted friend and assistant you've known 5-6 years prior to that point, but eventually when you realize the dollars flying in the door probably exceed the financial expertise of your interpreter you'd think it might be a good idea to set things up a bit more ironclad than what is being made out to have been the case.  That is, unless the story isn't being completely truthful.

To me, it's still alot more believable that Mizuhara was Ohatani's middle man when it came to making bets on the scope and scale that appeared to have occurred, and they were smart enough to not text each other about it largely because they're practically inseparable and could just as easily talk about making bets, money transfers, etc. using the account Mizuhara had ready access to.  Once they realized the entity/bookie they were using was under investigation by the Feds, suddenly it was time to craft this story.  Ohtani simply doesn't come off to me as a doe-eyed, gullible, victim who's clueless to what's going on around him financially.