Blue Jays as a Tyler Black trade partner

[Scooterfletcher]

Given that Black is Canadian, and that we maybe can afford to move him, I would be interested in what we could get from Toronto in a deal centered around him.   I’d love to get Kikuchi but he is a fa after the year so we’d need more than just him.     Am wondering what an expanded fair deal with the Blue Jays and Black/Kikuchi involved might look like.   Opinions on a fair deal anyone?

 

Edited to add that Kikuchi and Bassitt for Black and a pitcher like Blalock and a lottery ticket might work.  Would that be fair?

[jay87shot]

5 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

Given that Black is Canadian, and that we maybe can afford to move him, I would be interested in what we could get from Toronto in a deal centered around him.   I’d love to get Kikuchi but he is a fa after the year so we’d need more than just him.     Am wondering what an expanded fair deal with the Blue Jays and Black/Kikuchi involved might look like.   Opinions on a fair deal anyone?

 

Edited to add that Kikuchi and Bassitt for Black and a pitcher like Blalock and a lottery ticket might work.  Would that be fair?

The Jays would have to eat a bunch of Bassitt's contract  for me to consider that. Bassitt has been good and that is probably fair value but I worry about him more next year as a 36 year old. For a smaller askig price and contract I would rather go Fedde that Bassitt.

Kikuchi for 2 prospects like Blalock and Baez (maybe 3rd lesser piece)

Fedde and Kopech for Boeve, Arienamo, and Chad Patrick

[Scooterfletcher]

6 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

The Jays would have to eat a bunch of Bassitt's contract  for me to consider that. Bassitt has been good and that is probably fair value but I worry about him more next year as a 36 year old. For a smaller askig price and contract I would rather go Fedde that Bassitt.

Kikuchi for 2 prospects like Blalock and Baez (maybe 3rd lesser piece)

Fedde and Kopech for Boeve, Arienamo, and Chad Patrick

From your proposals, Id rather keep Baez out of the deal but would do Kikuchi for Blalock and two other pieces (Warren and Holub maybe)?

Id hate to give up Boeve and couldn’t deal Patrick until I see him pitch a couple for Mil.   Maybe Rodriguez and Arianamo for Kopech and Fedde I’d do though. 

[jay87shot]

2 minutes ago, Scooterfletcher said:

From your proposals, Id rather keep Baez out of the deal but would do Kikuchi for Blalock and two other pieces (Warren and Holub maybe)?

Id hate to give up Boeve and couldn’t deal Patrick until I see him pitch a couple for Mil.   Maybe Rodriguez and Arianamo for Kopech and Fedde I’d do though. 

The Kopech Fedde trade would work for me. To get a starter like Kikuchi it is going to likely take a top ten prospect or 2 top 15-20 guys. 

I like Patrick but if we are giving Dallas Kuechel a shot over him our front office must have some major concerns. Dallas probably gets 1/2 more starts. Then Patrick will have DL Hall, Taylor Clarke, Carlos Rodriguez and Junis maybe Ross, Junk, and Ashby (hopefully not) on the 40 man who could get that spot or Misi or Henderson (probably to soon) who could make a jump from AA. Patrick would get a good shot in Chicago the rest of the year and I would rather trade him than a higher upside young guy.

I am with you that I would give Patrick a chance before trading him. I am just not sure he gets that chance at this point.

[Scooterfletcher]

Add Bitoni instead of Boeve and throw in a lotto and I’m in.  Boeve I have too high of hopes for in becoming an all star.

[nate82]

Teams don't normally trade multiple players in one deal.  Even if the players are of lesser value it makes more sense to trade the players individually.  You just don't get as much value back in return if you are trading two players to one team in one deal.  The team trading for both players are also not going to want to give up the value each has on an individual level.  This is one of the many reasons you don't see teams trading multiple players in one deal unless it is a 3-team deal.  These trades where multiple MLB players are going to one team are in the minority of trades. 

If the Brewers are trading with Toronto it will be for one player not a Kikuchi and another MLB player.  You could probably get Kikuchi for Brown and Blalock or something like Baez, O'Rae and someone from the DSL.  It just doesn't make much sense for Toronto to move multiple MLB pieces for a lower value.

As for Black the only way I would trade him would be for someone like Vlad but the Blue Jays are hesitant on trading him or Bichette.  The Blue Jays are basically the 2010 Brewers but have to make a decision on two players instead of one (Prince).  The Blue Jays don't want to tear it down but they also don't look like they can be all that competitive in the AL East or even the AL Wild Card race even with the added WC. 

I think the Blue Jays will decide on Bichette and Vlad in the off season.  So look for the Blue Jays to only trade off the pieces they think won't be around for their next run.  So don't expect anyone significant to be traded away with multiple years of control left.

[jesusoftheapes]

I think they do not have enough to trade for Tyler Black in Toronto and who will be important moving forward to the level of Black.   Tyler has not been given enough AB in MLB action to get in any kind of grove.    He should not be dealt before you actually get to see the investment pay out .  Tyler Black has over 1000 AB in AAA.    That is  a lot of development to just throw out the window because you happen to have 2 players currently playing 1st base who are both 1 and done players should not mean you are willing to trade off Black .    I would move Garrett Mitchell before i move Black really .    

A

[jesusoftheapes]

On 6/29/2024 at 1:41 PM, Scooterfletcher said:

Given that Black is Canadian, and that we maybe can afford to move him, I would be interested in what we could get from Toronto in a deal centered around him.   I’d love to get Kikuchi but he is a fa after the year so we’d need more than just him.     Am wondering what an expanded fair deal with the Blue Jays and Black/Kikuchi involved might look like.   Opinions on a fair deal anyone?

 

Edited to add that Kikuchi and Bassitt for Black and a pitcher like Blalock and a lottery ticket might work.  Would that be fair?

Blalock is to close to a stud to do that.   Blalock has good stuff .   I really do not want to lose that guy.   Yoho and the others in that Biloxi group are the real future of the Brewers as Nashville seems laced with place holders currently .     Hall has yet to show us who he can be yet but that guy really has stuff if he can get his body right.   98 MPH all that so maybe some of those guy can be expendable.    

[jesusoftheapes]

I get the Canada connection but if there is something I have learned about Canadians living in the USA is the last thing most of the ever want to do is go back to Canada.  Tyler Black has so much invested into him now that trading him right before his bell is tolled seems like a huge waste of resources.    Not to mention Hoskins will probably opt out next year and Jake Bauer could be gone as soon as the trade deadline but is gone no later than the end of 2024.   So Black's current lack of fitting in is not permanent and the guy is really really good even though we have only gotten a small sample size.     The Brewers do not have a great 1st base in Nashville beyond Black currently so it would be right back to the drawing board in development if they just traded off Black now.      

Garrett Mitchell to me seems like the hype guy they are going to get looking good right before the trade deadline.   They have one of the best outfields in baseball without him and the White Sox said openly they want guys who are almost ready for the spotlight and Mitchell would fit that OF need they are so desperate to fill  and leave the Brewers with more than enough with the current state of the outfield to carry the 2024 season and even well into the future.    If it takes Garrett Mitchell and some AAA, AA and A players in a package to acquire Garrett Crochet then so be it.   All the other trade prospects do not give this team more than it could acquire from a healthy DL Hall who has so much more to offer the Brewers than he has shown so far.  Just watch his  Baltimore stuff from last season .  The guy can rock it out at 98mph and if healthy can instantly give the Brewers a strong 2nd half..    For me there is only 1 starting pitcher being shopped around the MLB before the trade deadline.   That is Crochet and the Brewers have more than enough to make this thing really happen but to out do the Dodgers and Padres it is going to take a player  like Mitchell to sweeten the pot enough to pull things this direction.     Even Tyler Black would be someone I would move in a deal for Crochet .    Crochet is the only pitcher worth trading for.   The rest are just in the way by next season with Woodruff and Gasser bound to be in the starting group along with Freddy and perhaps even Myers .         So unless it is a guy with the impact Crochet brings the current plan with Hall and not trading anyone would be the best course of action in my mind.    Stay the course if you cannot get someone truly impactful .    Crochet would be truly impactful .      

[Scooterfletcher]

Is JOTA an AI poster?

[Mr Southpaw]

Adams is not going to resign, so Joey and Turang will then cover SS.  That will give black 90 starts at 3B.  He can get another 50 at 1B because everything else at 1B is short term unless you think Bauers is the answer.  I would think most people don't.  Trading him for short term pitching is just not smart.

[Scooterfletcher]

I keep going back to Kikuchi.  I wonder if Tobias Myers has done enough to make it an even swap?  I think Kikuchi flourishes for us down the stretch…

[young guns]

12 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

I keep going back to Kikuchi.  I wonder if Tobias Myers has done enough to make it an even swap?  I think Kikuchi flourishes for us down the stretch…

Are you suggesting trading Myers for Kikuchi?  I'm on board trading for him, but why would we trade Myers for him.  It defeats the purpose. 

[rolafaive]

13 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

I keep going back to Kikuchi.  I wonder if Tobias Myers has done enough to make it an even swap?  I think Kikuchi flourishes for us down the stretch…

No way do I trade Myers, this kid has #2 and with more experience #1 level slot in rotation. Everyone wants Crochette and he has not proved durability yet, I would go after Feede and Kopech from White Sox, helps rotation and bullpen/long reliever.

[TURBO]

On 7/2/2024 at 9:09 AM, Mr Southpaw said:

Adams is not going to resign, so Joey and Turang will then cover SS.  That will give black 90 starts at 3B.  He can get another 50 at 1B because everything else at 1B is short term unless you think Bauers is the answer.  I would think most people don't.  Trading him for short term pitching is just not smart.

Highly doubtful Black will be moved back to 3B.  If that were the case, wouldn't he be playing 3B now in AAA?

3B is going to be Wilken or Boeve in the near future.  Hell, I thought Wilken might even be here by September, but then getting hit in the face seems to have delayed his timeclock for now.

[TURBO]

On 6/30/2024 at 10:16 PM, jesusoftheapes said:

 ...Hoskins will probably opt out next year...

No way he opts out unless he suddenly kicks into a different gear.

He's having a really bad season, only way he opts out is if he has a great season, and can capitalize with a big free agent signing.

I'm afraid as of now, we are stuck with Hoskins for another year.

[Scooterfletcher]

1 hour ago, TURBO said:

Highly doubtful Black will be moved back to 3B.  If that were the case, wouldn't he be playing 3B now in AAA?

3B is going to be Wilken or Boeve in the near future.  Hell, I thought Wilken might even be here by September, but then getting hit in the face seems to have delayed his timeclock for now.

I had thought Turang, after last year, would become a good Counsell (the player)  type utility IF on a good team before he exploded this year.   
 

Black’s role if he stays in the organization as we probably should expect, might be this type of role playing everywhere but SS on the infield next year (not with the plus defense of the aforementioned) but getting 300-400 abs next year in that type of role (after Adames bolts in free agency.   
 

if we were willing to play Frelick some at 3B this year should things have worked out differently, I would guess Black will be given time next year at 1/2/3B in 2025. 

[rickh150]

3 hours ago, TURBO said:

No way he opts out unless he suddenly kicks into a different gear.

He's having a really bad season, only way he opts out is if he has a great season, and can capitalize with a big free agent signing.

I'm afraid as of now, we are stuck with Hoskins for another year.

I think we are very close to that point of whether he opts in or out.  If you double his same stats for the second half, I still think he opts out.  Also, he could play worse and still opt out with a few big hits in the postseason.

I think he needs to play worse and/or get injured for him to opt in.

[TURBO]

3 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

I had thought Turang, after last year, would become a good Counsell (the player)  type utility IF on a good team before he exploded this year.   
 

Black’s role if he stays in the organization as we probably should expect, might be this type of role playing everywhere but SS on the infield next year (not with the plus defense of the aforementioned) but getting 300-400 abs next year in that type of role (after Adames bolts in free agency.   
 

if we were willing to play Frelick some at 3B this year should things have worked out differently, I would guess Black will be given time next year at 1/2/3B in 2025. 

To this team, defense is a priority.  Not a chance Frelick plays 3B on a regular basis, and not a chance we throw Black into infield positions he hasn't been playing all season.

Black will be lucky to find starts at 1B for us, and I have seen others say outfield.  He plays outfield, who sits?

His future is at DH with occasional starts at 1B, unless they comit to him at that position once Hoskins is gone.

[rickh150]

59 minutes ago, TURBO said:

To this team, defense is a priority.  Not a chance Frelick plays 3B on a regular basis, and not a chance we throw Black into infield positions he hasn't been playing all season.

Black will be lucky to find starts at 1B for us, and I have seen others say outfield.  He plays outfield, who sits?

His future is at DH with occasional starts at 1B, unless they comit to him at that position once Hoskins is gone.

Murphy talked about giving Frelick starts at 3B before the season. This is not far-fetched. Regular? No. Kinda like with Black at first. And it looks like he is 5’10” again…not 6’0”.

[Scooterfletcher]

My comments are for Black in 2025.   I see Black as a guy that plays a game at 1b 2b 3B each once a week and Dh once or twice a week if he is hitting well.   Not talking about this year but he will imho be a sub that spells those three infield spots once a week exactly  (with possible dh opportunities beyond that).  

[BrewerFan]

On 6/30/2024 at 9:49 PM, jesusoftheapes said:

I think they do not have enough to trade for Tyler Black in Toronto and who will be important moving forward to the level of Black.   Tyler has not been given enough AB in MLB action to get in any kind of grove.    He should not be dealt before you actually get to see the investment pay out .  Tyler Black has over 1000 AB in AAA.    That is  a lot of development to just throw out the window because you happen to have 2 players currently playing 1st base who are both 1 and done players should not mean you are willing to trade off Black .    I would move Garrett Mitchell before i move Black really .    

A

Or....counter point, you wait until he's got 1000 PAs and he doesn't have the value.

You're not just developing these players to contribute for the Brewers, you're acquiring and developing these players to help the team in any way.

I hated trading Justin Chambers for a guy the Dodgers didn't want on the 40 Man...but that turned out alright.

On 6/29/2024 at 10:38 PM, Scooterfletcher said:

Add Bitoni instead of Boeve and throw in a lotto and I’m in.  Boeve I have too high of hopes for in becoming an all star.

I do not like that at all. Bitonti's upside is so much higher. Boeve is a really good hitter, but where defensively and he's limited offensively. Not much power, not great speed.

Really good hitter, but the ceiling is the difference here. 

 

9 hours ago, rolafaive said:

No way do I trade Myers, this kid has #2 and with more experience #1 level slot in rotation.

If Myers is slotting in as the Ace of a rotation...it's not a great rotation. He's performing well, but you should want him to be your 4th best, maybe 3rd best pitcher in the future. I get he pitched out of his mind in June, but...an ace?

[sveumrules]

57 minutes ago, Scooterfletcher said:

I see Black as a guy that plays a game at 1b 2b 3B each once a week

The Brewers have played Black exclusively at 1B this year aside from one game at third where he made two errors.

If the plan were to play Black all around the infield at some point down the road, he’d be getting reps at those positions.

That he isn’t getting reps at those other positions seems to imply the Brewers don’t believe he is up to their defensive standards as a 2B/3B.

[Brian]

If Hoskins doesn't turn it around soon maybe Black can play 1st. 

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, TURBO said:

To this team, defense is a priority.  Not a chance Frelick plays 3B on a regular basis, and not a chance we throw Black into infield positions he hasn't been playing all season.

Black will be lucky to find starts at 1B for us, and I have seen others say outfield.  He plays outfield, who sits?

His future is at DH with occasional starts at 1B, unless they comit to him at that position once Hoskins is gone.

Murphy very clearly said we'd be "shocked" when we saw their plan for Frelick.

Now since then Ortiz has blossomed, Mitchell has gotten hurt, Wiemer has continued to struggle and he's been needed in the OF, but it's easy to say NOW there was "not a chance" he was going to play there, but when the Manager says the exact opposite, I tend to believe him. 

 

I think Black will be more than adequate at 1B. He's a better athlete than Hoskins and he hasn't played much 1st. Will he play 2B/3B regularly? I guess that'll depend on the team as a whole, how good of a hitter he is, but 1B seems to be obvious spot for him. I hope it's not OF. We've got plenty of OF depth. 

I do hope Wilken or Boeve can handle 3B and I really hope Pratt can force Wilken to 1B a year or two later.