Packers 2024 Season Thread

[wallus]

8 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Believe it or not, this was...particularly bad. This was bad for Preseason Football. 

It was a lot of work to try and come up with some players who looked good in any phase of the game. 

All I saw was poor runs and check downs.

[BrewerFan]

6 minutes ago, edfunderburk said:

This is hard to watch … most of these players will never sniff an NFL roster

Much of the NFL preseason seems without purpose 

I liked the layers cuts rather than keep the 90-man roster until the final cutdown

The product is obviously worse, but I like the way it is now. I didn't like forcing guys to play who you knew were gonna make the roster. 

Plus, it gives guys more looks. 

Absolutely brutal though. We're supposed to be so deep...and I think we are in spots like WR, DL, maybe CB, but OL needs help and they just looked bad even for the preseason. 

[BrewerFan]

1 minute ago, wallus said:

All I saw was poor runs and check downs.

Well hell, you got to see the highlights!

[BrewerFan]

24 minutes ago, yourout said:

How many guys do they have to cut?

Just the one cut down now. They go from 90 to 53 and then back to 69(70 with the international exemption) with the PS.

[yourout]

I'm sure there was a few guys tonight that are practice squad worthy and some will probably be on the depth chart but the vast majority of the guys tonight will end up getting cut.

[yourout]

2 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Just the one cut down now. They go from 90 to 53 and then back to 69(70 with the international exemption) with the PS.

Thanks. Good info.

[HarryDoyle]

That was an ugly game even by preseason standards. I think all the final roster decisions have been answered. Might as well play the regular season roster against Baltimore. 

 

 

[CheeseheadInQC]

41 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Ok...so...list of players who've looked good this game.

Cox Jr
Ford
Hopper
Caleb Jones
Kalen King has looked like a physical dude. I think he's more of a safety/corner hybrid. 
uh...Dubose had a couple nice plays.

Heath won on a few routes just not great placement. 
Welch looked...pretty good(for a guy who'll probably be on the PS).

Morton had a good player.

 

Really slim pickings this game. 

I've never seen a more disinterested Packers team in the Pre-season. There was a game vs Carolina a few years ago, maybe 2018 or so that was bad. 

 

And...as I was writing that, we dropped the punt. They quite literally, dropped the ball!

Oh well, IT'S PRE-SEASON! It doesn't count!

But my god was this ugly. 

I might toss Mosby on the list. It seemed there was a stretch where he and Cox were alternating at abusing one of the backup tackles.

Also, forgive me if this was mentioned earlier, but did it seem like Rhyan was taking longer to get the ball to Clifford than he was expecting pretty consistently?

[CheezWizHed]

One thing that I'd hope we could agree upon after a joined practice is how much you play your starters.  Doesn't have to be perfectly aligned, but it would be nice to mostly see #1s against #1s, 2s vs 2s, 3s vs 3s.  Seeing some Denver starters playing into the 3rd quarter was pretty silly. 

I can't see how either side really learned much from that.

Plus, Denver announcers were terrible. I get they are homers but wow... 

9 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Ok...so...list of players who've looked good this game.

Cox Jr
Ford
Hopper
Caleb Jones
Kalen King has looked like a physical dude. I think he's more of a safety/corner hybrid. 
uh...Dubose had a couple nice plays.

Heath won on a few routes just not great placement. 
Welch looked...pretty good(for a guy who'll probably be on the PS).

Morton had a good player.

 

Really slim pickings this game. 

I've never seen a more disinterested Packers team in the Pre-season. There was a game vs Carolina a few years ago, maybe 2018 or so that was bad. 

 

And...as I was writing that, we dropped the punt. They quite literally, dropped the ball!

Oh well, IT'S PRE-SEASON! It doesn't count!

But my god was this ugly. 

Oladapo also played well. No splash plays, but very solid tackling. 

[SeaBass]

9 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

Much of the NFL preseason seems without purpose 

NFL teams get to sell tickets, concessions, merchandise and self-produce a television broadcast to make that sweet, filthy lucre while putting out sub-standard game play.

[SeaBass]

It really was ugly last night. I rarely tune in for preseason games or only watch to a certain point but I stayed with the game through most of the 3rd quarter before turning it off. Preseason doesn't mean much but you'd still like to see some sliver of competence and there wasn't much to be found.

At the very least Packers coaches have more than enough material to light a fire under these guys in practice this week.

[Joseph Zarr]

I agree with Ross here. I think the freak out over the OL (last night in particular) is way overblown. I can easily, and I mean easily, think back the past 5-6 seasons and mind visualize O-Line scenes way worse than what we are dealing with right now. I didn't see the problem on the O-Line last night going far past anyone not named 'Royce Newman', for example:

 

[Joseph Zarr]

12 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Ok...so...list of players who've looked good this game.

Cox Jr
Ford
Hopper
Caleb Jones
Kalen King has looked like a physical dude. I think he's more of a safety/corner hybrid. 
uh...Dubose had a couple nice plays.

Heath won on a few routes just not great placement. 
Welch looked...pretty good(for a guy who'll probably be on the PS).

Morton had a good player.

 

Really slim pickings this game. 

I've never seen a more disinterested Packers team in the Pre-season. There was a game vs Carolina a few years ago, maybe 2018 or so that was bad. 

 

And...as I was writing that, we dropped the punt. They quite literally, dropped the ball!

Oh well, IT'S PRE-SEASON! It doesn't count!

But my god was this ugly. 

The universal opinion in the Packers twittersphere is Welch was more than pretty good. They really liked what they saw:

He was quit easily one of the few bright spots in what was an ugly game - as we both know.

[Joseph Zarr]

Backing up what I saw throughout the contest, unfortunately, Andy Herman gave Lukas Van Ness his second lowest grade of any Packer. He just was not good last night. No pass rush plan (I continue to believe he just doesn't have a pass rush toolkit beyond the bull rush - Ben Fennel isn't lying here). Completely lost the edge on more than one occasion opening up large lanes. Just a poor performance. Likely a guy who needs better players down the D-Line to make an impact. BUT, it speaks to how raw he continues to be. He's going to have moments in 2024/2025 but he has a long way to go. Thankfully, it's very early - in the season and his career. 

[BrewerFan]

On 8/18/2024 at 10:48 PM, CheeseheadInQC said:

I might toss Mosby on the list. It seemed there was a stretch where he and Cox were alternating at abusing one of the backup tackles.

Also, forgive me if this was mentioned earlier, but did it seem like Rhyan was taking longer to get the ball to Clifford than he was expecting pretty consistently?

I didn't watch this game close enough to see that or notice. We getting whipped inside, but where I'd normally rewind it, I didn't feel real compelled! 

 I saw a Mosby play(sure there were a few, just not watching too close again).

Hopper was the guy who played who looked like a potential dude to me. Maybe not this year, but next? I see for the first time why they really went after him. One Gap LB but this could be a REAL fun LB trio in a year with Quay and Coop getting some crazy drops in that C2 and Hopper just blowing things up! 

 

Weak spot had to be the IOL, right? The OTs were alright. You could get by with a Telfort, Jones, Dillard maybe. You'd have to slide to help, but...you'll live. Bakh would be awesome, but short of that, we need to add someone there. Pugh if healthy, Glowinski, and Halapoulivaati Vaitai if he's willing to play. Billy Turner is also a FA. That'd be some depth, he knows the system and you can't have Rhyan as our backup, or worse yet, Newman. 

BTW, top 5 most likely to break out.

1-Tom already has, so he'd have to be AP level. Possible.
Wicks, LVN...Brooks and Slaton. Slaton is a run stuffer, early downs. He just needs to be who he's been, but I  I'm gonna keep saying it, Wyatt should be atop this list. LVN will be a 7-8 sack guy, play good run D, Wicks, sure. All the natural 1-gap DL(so all but Slaton who I think will be important, just not "breakout").

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/under-the-radar-packers-players-who-could-break-out-in-2024/ar-AA1p0Pur

 

 

Still unchanged. This is a team that can win a SB if the defense can be a top ~10 defense. Stacked offense and Love will be ready. Oh, and I really liked King at CB/S.

[yourout]

13 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

Backing up what I saw throughout the contest, unfortunately, Andy Herman gave Lukas Van Ness his second lowest grade of any Packer. He just was not good last night. No pass rush plan (I continue to believe he just doesn't have a pass rush toolkit beyond the bull rush - Ben Fennel isn't lying here). Completely lost the edge on more than one occasion opening up large lanes. Just a poor performance. Likely a guy who needs better players down the D-Line to make an impact. BUT, it speaks to how raw he continues to be. He's going to have moments in 2024/2025 but he has a long way to go. Thankfully, it's very early - in the season and his career. 

Right now he's JAG but hopefully he can develop into at least slightly above average but I don't think his ceiling is going to be much above that.

[CheezWizHed]

I see a lot of Z-Smith in LVN (the on the field play style and not the off the field stuff).   Z Smith really didn't break out until year 4 with the Ravens and really big in year 5 with the Pack. 

I get the sense that in the pre-season, they are putting him in situations where he is uncomfortable to help him work on those issues (or maybe "see" the problem).  Where as in the season, he will be used more to his strengths of inside pass rush (or at least I hope this is true). 

I missed the beginning and end of the game live... and didn't feel like going back to watch them given how poorly the play was (a rare occurrence for me).  But I hear a lot of stuff about how Welch played on defense.  I've advocated for Wilson as a backup LB more for a lack of options than anything... I wonder if Welch's development is enough to even the field between the two?  Wilson is on the downside of his career, while Welch is still on the upside.  If the two are rated remotely close to each other on D and ST, we might see Welch over Wilson... which I'd take as a positive outcome. 

[Joseph Zarr]

Edgerrin Cooper returned to Individual Drills at practice today. Small step but a big one. He needs to get reps. He and Hopper have missed valuable time. Lloyd remains out - not shockingly but disappointingly.

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I see a lot of Z-Smith in LVN (the on the field play style and not the off the field stuff).   Z Smith really didn't break out until year 4 with the Ravens and really big in year 5 with the Pack. 

I get the sense that in the pre-season, they are putting him in situations where he is uncomfortable to help him work on those issues (or maybe "see" the problem).  Where as in the season, he will be used more to his strengths of inside pass rush (or at least I hope this is true). 

I missed the beginning and end of the game live... and didn't feel like going back to watch them given how poorly the play was (a rare occurrence for me).  But I hear a lot of stuff about how Welch played on defense.  I've advocated for Wilson as a backup LB more for a lack of options than anything... I wonder if Welch's development is enough to even the field between the two?  Wilson is on the downside of his career, while Welch is still on the upside.  If the two are rated remotely close to each other on D and ST, we might see Welch over Wilson... which I'd take as a positive outcome. 

The LVN stuff is waaay over blown. I completely agree about having him doing some different things that don't play to his strengths. I'd equate it to a pitching prospect. Sometimes they're going to try and throw their changeup and a CB as that's what they need to work on. The dude still a physical freak and again, this scheme should suit him better as well.

He isn't asked to set the edge like he was in the 3-4 Edge, so a big part of the huge lanes is him getting up-field and then the DT next to him who was getting blown off the ball. He was also up against  Garrett Bolles. He'd be our starting LT. He's a really good player.  

I didn't really watch anyone close enough, but we saw LVN last year. He's already a pretty good player. He was better as a rookie than Gary. He's going to be fine. He'll play a lot of wide 9 where he'll be able to use his speed to get into the bull rush. He doesn't have a refined pass rush similar to Gary, he's mostly a speed rush and a bull rush, but he's shown good hands last year.

His strength is on those inside stunts and they're not running those in a pre-season game. I can't believe we're doing this with another top 13 Edge who's just a freak athlete. Let the guy develop(obviously not at you Cheeze, just the "he's a Jag," type takes.

He's still a really good #3 Edge, Enagbare is a good #4 and Cox looked good as depth option. 

Welch is another guy who had a good game, but they liked him on STs and he's one of the few guys who looked good. I missed a couple of his big plays because...like you, I didn't want to watch again, but him blowing up a blocker and then making a play? . Hopper looked VERY different from his scouting reports. I'm guessing some of those missed tackles are from him coming up and hitting and not wrapping up, but I see now why Gute talked about the power. He's exciting. Especially on a couple plays where he took on an OL and then delivered the hit. Wilson also looked good early on. So...I don't know. I know they talked about liking Welch on STs, but if he looks like he can make an impact as a Mike or SLB? I still think the risk of losing LBs are pretty low, but he's got another week to make the conversation a more difficult one.

11 hours ago, yourout said:

Right now he's JAG but hopefully he can develop into at least slightly above average but I don't think his ceiling is going to be much above that.

We saw the dude play last year. He's a young player who's developing and he's already above average. You don't think the ceiling of a dude who's got almost the same physical attributes as Gary, was probably better than Gary as a rookie...his ceiling isn't higher than "slightly above average?" I don't get it the LVN... pessimism. 6 -8 sacks this year and he'll be good vs the run. 

On 8/19/2024 at 10:25 AM, Joseph Zarr said:

I agree with Ross here. I think the freak out over the OL (last night in particular) is way overblown. I can easily, and I mean easily, think back the past 5-6 seasons and mind visualize O-Line scenes way worse than what we are dealing with right now. I didn't see the problem on the O-Line last night going far past anyone not named 'Royce Newman', for example:

Ross is doubling down on a bad take from the off-season when he argued they didn't need ANY OL help.

1-The Packers have openly talked about how Rhyan isn't in good enough shape. He's in Yr 3 and he comes in not in great shape. Last year he only played because JRJ was banged up and he split reps. He's a terrible pass-blocker. 

Dillard was brutal last year and doesn't play IOL save for some snaps in OTA far as I know and Monk looks pretty good when he's in position which...isn't every play. He's missed calls and completely whiffed or been way too late on others. He's a guy who needs a year.

The interior of that OL was getting beaten so badly and so quickly it's not surprising Dillard had a good grade, he just needed block for about 1.5 seconds. 

I really would like to see them get Glowinski or Vaitai, Billy Turner is still available and knows the scheme. They're bad inside though. You're one injury from playing Rhyan or maybe Newman. That's a very real problem.

If the Packers are going to claim a guy, I could see it being a vet on the OL.

OT...it was hard to tell. We didn't see much of Telfort or Jones. Jones is a monster and wipes his dude out in the run game, but you need to stay healthy which has been an issue and he's obviously limited in the ZBS, but you could work around that.  

 

The best way to...evaluate their needs, list the players we'd be in the most trouble if they got hurt. Take Love out because it's always your franchise QB. After him?

1-Tom -We desperately need him to stay healthy
2-Jenkins-We cannot afford to lose another piece fro that IOL
3-Gary
4-It might be Morgan or even Myers given the drop-off after him.
5-Clark(I think Wyatt will climb up this list) 

RB, WR, TE, DE, DT, LB, CB, SS-You have depth at all of those areas. I think the QBs are fine. They're backups, they're young, but put them in with the starting OL and Wicks?

Clifford did make a great throw to Heath that was about a half an inch off. I think it was Pratt who hit Melton on a big throw. They'll be fine(though this game may have helped get one to the PS). 

 

 

Finally-5 Breakout players. Zach Tom? I think he's already broken out.
Slaton? Not sure I see that one but hope so. 
I'll keep screaming it's Wyatt. He's going to be a difference-maker. I really hope Jordan Morgan is one also...

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2024/08/18/under-the-radar-packers-players-who-could-break-out-in-2024/

[Joseph Zarr]

I don't think there is a single thing being overblown about LVN at present. He has no pass rush plan. It's quite obvious. He doesn't have that. BUT, that may not matter in the end as his brute strength and primary impact may indeed come in run defense and the interior rush. I don't think a single thing is being overblown when anyone makes the observation that it is power and bull rush and that's pretty much it. And, don't take it from me. Take it from the guy who edits ALL the college clips for Daniel Jeremiah's segments and co-produces the NFL Draft film feeds. 

It was just more obvious to my eyes this past Sunday night. Again, I don't think a single person is overblowing anything. These are real flaws. And that's OK. He'll be fine and he has other strengths.

And, the OL. I personally continue to believe the general sentiment of the current OL is overblown. Yours included, my friend. I can go back at least 20 years of pre-season mental archives of watching pre-season Packers football. This O-Line iteration is just fine. They are holding up quite well in Pass Protect overall. They have depth. Maybe they pick up a guy to fill out a swing tackle piece? Maybe. But, really, the majority of their issues are coming from blown assignments like this - which is entirely fixable. You may think Ross is overcompensating for a poor off-season take. I just agree with him. I am entirely unworried about the 9th or 10th OL spot:

[Joseph Zarr]

We have updated Kicker Totals from Andy Herman today:

Camp totals:

Anders Carlson: 53/66 - 80.3%

Greg Joseph: 53/68 - 77.9%

Alex Hale: 14/20 - 70.0%

What a nightmare.

[yourout]

59 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

We have updated Kicker Totals from Andy Herman today:

Camp totals:

Anders Carlson: 53/66 - 80.3%

Greg Joseph: 53/68 - 77.9%

Alex Hale: 14/20 - 70.0%

What a nightmare.

And that is kicking in good conditions.

[Joseph Zarr]

3 minutes ago, yourout said:

And that is kicking in good conditions.

Precisely. It is entirely unacceptable for a 2024 NFL team. IF the Packers are serious about their chances this season they really can't explain keeping any of these kickers. There will be plenty of qualified pick-ups waiting after their third pre-season game. 

This being said, the Packers rolled with Mason Crosby as their primary kicker and I'm fairly sure (off the top of my noggin) he kicked in the high 70's %-wise his first 4-or-5 seasons with the Packers? This wouldn't be uncharacteristic of the franchise. 

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

I don't think there is a single thing being overblown about LVN at present.

Yes...I understand you don't. I was disagreeing. I think these are comically over the top.

Namely...

Quote

"Right now he's JAG but hopefully he can develop into at least slightly above average but I don't think his ceiling is going to be much above that."

It's like we forgot we JUST went through this and came out with one of the best Edge's in the NFL.

As I said, his strength right now is his physical ability. Speed, strength. He's not a refined pass rusher just as Gary wasn't after his first year. He was a better rookie than Gary. He's 22 years old. We went through this with people trashing a supremely talented young B1G player with nearly identical physical attributes because they didn't come into the league with a refined game.

As I said;

Quote

 He'll play a lot of wide 9 where he'll be able to use his speed to get into the bull rush. He doesn't have a refined pass rush similar to Gary, he's mostly a speed rush and a bull rush, but he's shown good hands last year.
His strength is on those inside stunts and they're not running those in a pre-season game. 

 

A week after he was one of the highest-graded defensive players, he struggled against a really good OT in Bolles and a pretty good Denver DL, but he's fine. He's developing just fine after a good rookie year. He's adjusting to again, that wide 9 and our DL just didn't play well. Brooks, Enagbare, Wooden, we struggled vs their starters....but it's one game. One pre-season game. He'll be a key rotational player this year and become an impact player....so yeah, it feels overblown. 

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

And, the OL. I personally continue to believe the general sentiment of the current OL is overblown. Yours included, my friend. I can go back at least 20 years of pre-season mental archives of watching pre-season Packers football. This O-Line iteration is just fine. They are holding up quite well in Pass Protect overall. They have depth. Maybe they pick up a guy to fill out a swing tackle piece? Maybe. But, really, the majority of their issues are coming from blown assignments like this - which is entirely fixable. You may think Ross is overcompensating for a poor off-season take. I just agree with him. I am entirely unworried about the 9th or 10th OL spot:

Yeah, again, I'm not worried about the 9th and 10th spots, I'm worried about the 6th spot or the top backup on the OL. 

 

You realize that very picture kinda makes my point? Nobody's climbing to the 2nd level, LB is uncovered...and that's fine...but you see Monk? #90 unblocked while they have 3 guys blocking the 3 tech on that play?

Is that our top IOL backup? Is it Royce Newman? Monk?

So...again, it's not the ability of the 9th, 10th or 20th player to play right now, it's what happens if ANYONE gets hurt, it's a weakness. 

The 6th guy. That's my concern. I think we need to improve the depth there...I can't believe we're worried about LVN, but saying there's no depth concerns on the OL after our starters.

 

Quote

This being said, the Packers rolled with Mason Crosby as their primary kicker and I'm fairly sure (off the top of my noggin) he kicked in the high 70's %-wise his first 4-or-5 seasons with the Packers? This wouldn't be uncharacteristic of the franchise. 

First 4 seasons he was I think 78%

For his career he was 81.3 10-21 from 50+ those first 4 years
Carlson was 81.8% last year and 3-5 from 50+

Joeseph is just about 83% for his career

It's not gonna matter who's kicking if the snap and holds aren't good.
They also not really in ideal conditions. They're rushing guys on and off the field trying to mimic game conditions and making an effort to try and challenge them. 

I'm guessing if they stay patient, they'll be rewarded again.